The Raider Depreciation Thread 📉

[BackinBlack]

1 hour ago, big_palooka said:

There were instances last season that made me optimistic. The KC game they nearly won. And the fact they blew leads, which sucked but felt like if corrected, there are several wins in there. 

I'm not giving up, because it is still early. I have to believe Jimmy G plays better football and the offense eventually gets going. They've had some scripted moments where they've looks potent. 

Really need to see where they are at the trade deadline as far as what moves I prefer. 

I agree, there were positives last year, up until what? Maybe the rams game when everything just went to sucking.
Without a better option at QB, I think JMD killed the Carr plug to early. For a guy who historically struggled year 1, and in a tough scheme for qbs, and injuries at play making positions, I don’t know why you’d completely risk the spot for Jimmy. Even the Brady thing to me doesn’t make sense. Brady not winning this year with this team. 

First three games last year, we easily could’ve won. 
Chargers, Carr hits Waller before half and its at least a 6 point swing, if not 10. Carr hits wide open Waller on first drive 4 point swing. 
Both those completely on Carr, system worked and got his players wide open. 

Arizon - 20-0 at half, first drive in second half, Waller drops open TD in back of end zone that hits both his hands. If he catches it we win. Instead we go to OT, where in FG range Hunter fumbles and we lose. 

Tenn - ugly ugly start, but we fight back. Waller deflects a pass for Adams in Redzone, and we settle for 3. Later Waller drops a pass that he tips up for an int, in the end zone. 

-
I truly believe those missed opportunities which the play design is not at fault, (albeit maybe the one where Waller and Adams close together in end zone some flaws), charge the course of the season.

If JMD feels his systems relies on Brady, then he needs to go. 

[BackinBlack]

All in all, I just can’t believe how bad Jimmy has looked. 
I was / am all in for giving JMD 3 years, but he took a big risk bringing in a new QB. 

If the O does not figure it out, and we remain a bottom 10 O this season. See ya the F later bud. 
I can’t believe I am now saying bottom 10 O. Josh inherited a top 10 O. 
Traded for DA, and has gotten worse. 

Unbelievable. 

[true2form]

2 hours ago, big_palooka said:

Probably some of that. His offense by all accounts is complicated. I'm sure he could simplify things. But these QBs are veteran guys. Mac Jones operated it just fine. What's the problem with these two?

Did Mac operate it fine?

His stats were on par with Carr's from last year.  I think you are equating winning with successful QB play.  We all know the Pats defense is more of the reason for them winning any games they've won the last 3 years.

[BackinBlack]

27 minutes ago, true2form said:

Did Mac operate it fine?

His stats were on par with Carr's from last year.  I think you are equating winning with successful QB play.  We all know the Pats defense is more of the reason for them winning any games they've won the last 3 years.

Lol the pats D/ST combo gets them a ton of points. 
people have a very tough time to judge QBs based on their play alone. 
 

they’ll post a clip of a qb missing a Wr and act like it’s the biggest embarrassment ever, when every game, literally every qb will miss a throw, or not see a Wr from time to time. 

[big_palooka]

4 hours ago, Jeremy408 said:

See, this is where I have to expose the fact that the quarterback will always be blamed for incompetency in FO leadership both during the season & off-season. 
 

-the first question you have to ask yourself is why does this supposed offensive mastermind only appear to work with one quarterback(outside of the best who ever played of course)Mac Jones when other real masterminds can work with almost any quarterback they get(while having lesser weapons)? Because he's not a mastermind

-the second question is why is the quarterback that was handpicked by this mastermind playcaller((who could've picked other quarterbacks that were signed later on in the preseason, but are doing better(Baker Mayfield for example) that are playing under lesser-known offensive coordinators.)) not performing well under him despite performing well under other coordinators in the past)? 
 

-Why has the team regressed in scoring since last year despite getting more patriots guys and guys on offense overall to go with the league leaders in rushing, and receiving that we had last year? 
 

I have answer for these? You bring up Mac Jones, but the reality is the patriots were top-five, and takeaways is that year so he was being gifted with starts in the red zone which is why the running back that was starting and year had 18 rushing touchdowns doesn't start any more in the NFL. It's also why Mac Jones didn't have that many yards that year, but had a lot of touchdowns. Because it's not hard to call that many plays when years starting in the red zone or when the other team can't score because they're playing against what are the best defensive play callers in the NFL who ever lived. 
 

That's why when he comes here and whoever the quarterback is isn't Tom Brady, and whoever the defensive coordinator is isn't Bill Belichick. Then it doesn't look good anymore. It's not as simple as "it's because the quarterbacks not seeing the field." It's because when you have Brady and/or Belichick you don't have to be a good play caller. That's how Davante Adams can almost go for 200 yards in a game and you still don't score more than 20 points. 
 

^ that's what the evidence actually supports

what happens(and it's not just you by the way) on this farm is going to anything goes wrong. The majority of people just point to the quarterback ensure it has some what to do with the quarterback but what always happens is we ignore literally everything else including the obvious common denominator that Josh McDaniels works when you have the best quarterback who ever lived or when you have the best defensive mind who ever lived getting the ball back for you on a constant basis, but it doesn't work when you don't have those circumstances. Nothings going to change that.

A lot of unpack here. But most of that will need revisited after the season. We have a small sample size of Jimmy G and the offense. I could look completely different come November or not. So not going to spend a lot of time speaking to it regressing until we have a larger sample of games. 

I think McDaniel's is a good play caller and can scheme an offense. I think Carr and Jimmy are not good QBs. Devante can have 200 yards and the QB can still suck in the red zone as has been the case for years.  

And yes, having a great defense makes a world of difference and life easier for the offense. 

[Jeremy408]

5 hours ago, big_palooka said:

A lot of unpack here. But most of that will need revisited after the season. We have a small sample size of Jimmy G and the offense. I could look completely different come November or not. So not going to spend a lot of time speaking to it regressing until we have a larger sample of games. 

I think McDaniel's is a good play caller and can scheme an offense. I think Carr and Jimmy are not good QBs. Devante can have 200 yards and the QB can still suck in the red zone as has been the case for years.  

And yes, having a great defense makes a world of difference and life easier for the offense. 

Sure you could say that but as it stands right now we are bottom 10 in offensive yards and we are bottom 5 in offensive scoring

[big_palooka]

8 hours ago, Jeremy408 said:

Sure you could say that but as it stands right now we are bottom 10 in offensive yards and we are bottom 5 in offensive scoring

Sure, but it's been 3 weeks. And they've played two top end defenses.

This week should be telling. If they can't put 20+ on the Chargers then I think we have some better answers. 

[Jeremy408]

3 hours ago, big_palooka said:

Sure, but it's been 3 weeks. And they've played two top end defenses.

This week should be telling. If they can't put 20+ on the Chargers then I think we have some better answers. 

Last week was supposed to be telling and the week before that. Every week is telling than they lose and then it's the next week 

Edited September 29, 2023 by Jeremy408

[big_palooka]

1 hour ago, Jeremy408 said:

Last week was supposed to be telling and the week before that. Every week is telling than they lie and then it's the next week 

I tend not to be overly critical of early season football. It's become an extension of training camp in a lot of ways. November is when real football begins. Never about how you start, all about how you finish.

We are over scrutinizing this team because of the change at QB and the fact so many people dislike McDaniels. Reality is, 4 of the next 5 are winnable games in October. They could be 4-4 heading in to November and most would take that. 

Why is this week telling? Because of all the negativity around the team. If they win this game, the heat will die down. They lose and look flat, it's more gas on the fire. Chargers are ranked 28th in defense. If the offense is awful again.... well.

And I get it, Raider fans are tired of this crap year after year. Every game feels more important than the last right now. 

Edited September 29, 2023 by big_palooka

[NCOUGHMAN]

2 hours ago, Jeremy408 said:

Last week was supposed to be telling and the week before that. Every week is telling than they lie and then it's the next week 

🎯

[NCOUGHMAN]

51 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

I tend not to be overly critical of early season football. It's become an extension of training camp in a lot of ways. November is when real football begins. Never about how you start, all about how you finish.

We are over scrutinizing this team because of the change at QB and the fact so many people dislike McDaniels. Reality is, 4 of the next 5 are winnable games in October. They could be 4-4 heading in to November and most would take that. 

Why is this week telling? Because of all the negativity around the team. If they win this game, the heat will die down. They lose and look flat, it's more gas on the fire. Chargers are ranked 28th in defense. If the offense is awful again.... well.

And I get it, Raider fans are tired of this crap year after year. Every game feels more important than the last right now. 

That’s interesting cause adams said it’s games like pitt where you come out and establish your identity for the season. You saying we gotta wait till November to do that…meh ima side with adams on this.

[Jeremy408]

55 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

I tend not to be overly critical of early season football. It's become an extension of training camp in a lot of ways. November is when real football begins. Never about how you start, all about how you finish.

We are over scrutinizing this team because of the change at QB and the fact so many people dislike McDaniels. Reality is, 4 of the next 5 are winnable games in October. They could be 4-4 heading in to November and most would take that. 

Why is this week telling? Because of all the negativity around the team. If they win this game, the heat will die down. They lose and look flat, it's more gas on the fire. Chargers are ranked 28th in defense. If the offense is awful again.... well.

And I get it, Raider fans are tired of this crap year after year. Every game feels more important than the last right now. 

 Yeah but it didn't start early in the season started last year. That's why I'm critical. What is it like last year when the Jaguars hired Doug Peterson and they didn't start out well. Doug Peterson has won a Super Bowl and he's only had one year that he didn't make the playoffs. Josh McDaniels is currently 18-29.

I'm going to be more critical when he's not winning and when you're seeing the offense regress(despite putting all the resources towards the office of side of the ball) and when you see the Defense not getting any better(because no real resources were added).

I'm going to be critical when the guy that we drafted over much better players (& who is really feeling the need that should've been filled last year, which that was originally created in the first place by them) isn't performing.

 

[big_palooka]

2 hours ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

That’s interesting cause adams said it’s games like pitt where you come out and establish your identity for the season. You saying we gotta wait till November to do that…meh ima side with adams on this.

Not what I said at all. You're putting words in my mouth. 

 

[big_palooka]

2 hours ago, Jeremy408 said:

 Yeah but it didn't start early in the season started last year. That's why I'm critical. What is it like last year when the Jaguars hired Doug Peterson and they didn't start out well. Doug Peterson has won a Super Bowl and he's only had one year that he didn't make the playoffs. Josh McDaniels is currently 18-29.

I'm going to be more critical when he's not winning and when you're seeing the offense regress(despite putting all the resources towards the office of side of the ball) and when you see the Defense not getting any better(because no real resources were added).

I'm going to be critical when the guy that we drafted over much better players (& who is really feeling the need that should've been filled last year, which that was originally created in the first place by them) isn't performing.

 

That's fine. You're entitled to that.

I'm more looking at a team like the Lions. They were ready to throw out Campbell the, boom back half of the year it clicked and they are on the upswing. 

If we get to November 4-4 and things are rounding into shape. Rookies playing better, etc. great. If not and thing continue to unravel, you have your answer. 

I really don't understand this idea that some fans have where a team that's been down 20 years can instantly just rebound into a contender. My expectations are much lower I guess. 

[NCOUGHMAN]

33 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

Not what I said at all. You're putting words in my mouth. 

 

You said early season is an extension of training camp iyo. Adams said it’s when you establish your identity as a team for the season. What did I miss?