The Raider Depreciation Thread 📉

[Jeremy408]

5 hours ago, big_palooka said:

That's fine. You're entitled to that.

I'm more looking at a team like the Lions. They were ready to throw out Campbell the, boom back half of the year it clicked and they are on the upswing. 

If we get to November 4-4 and things are rounding into shape. Rookies playing better, etc. great. If not and thing continue to unravel, you have your answer. 

I really don't understand this idea that some fans have where a team that's been down 20 years can instantly just rebound into a contender. My expectations are much lower I guess. 

Yeah, but Campbell is a better coach clearly. Obviously he's a better leader of men. In a lot of ways, he's actually the antithesis of Mcdaniels. He came back from a 1-6 start. McDaniels has blown an 6-0 start before. 
 

Mcdaniels took a team that had already gone to the playoffs the year before and brought them to 6-10. And now the offense has regressed and the defense is about the same, despite all the resources favoring the offense.

[MrOaktown_56]

7 hours ago, big_palooka said:

That's fine. You're entitled to that.

I'm more looking at a team like the Lions. They were ready to throw out Campbell the, boom back half of the year it clicked and they are on the upswing. 

If we get to November 4-4 and things are rounding into shape. Rookies playing better, etc. great. If not and thing continue to unravel, you have your answer. 

I really don't understand this idea that some fans have where a team that's been down 20 years can instantly just rebound into a contender. My expectations are much lower I guess. 

I'm not so sure anymore that another 8-9 season would be enough for me to not fire JMD anyways. I see a guy who is too proud to use his players the right way. Same for guys who don't fit his system. Barring something shocking, I'm out on him and the bum qb he brought in.

[big_palooka]

14 hours ago, Jeremy408 said:

Yeah, but Campbell is a better coach clearly. Obviously he's a better leader of men. In a lot of ways, he's actually the antithesis of Mcdaniels. He came back from a 1-6 start. McDaniels has blown an 6-0 start before. 
 

Mcdaniels took a team that had already gone to the playoffs the year before and brought them to 6-10. And now the offense has regressed and the defense is about the same, despite all the resources favoring the offense.

I guess we will see? I get the frustration and out rage culture we live in, but it's still been 3 weeks. And it's never how you start. 

Last year, the Bears started 2-1, finished 3-14. The 49ers started 1-2, finished 13-4. Bengals started 1-2, finished 12-4. KC lost to the Colts early last season. 

Most teams are not playing their best football early in season. Making broad statements 3 weeks in make no sense to me. The Raiders offense is not as bad as it started. So I'll reserve judgement for the time being.

Lastly, I can't beat the dead horse over the 2021 playoff team any longer. That was a complete fluke. They were 7 win team who got some lucky breaks. They had the 4th worst negative point differential of all time to make the playoffs. They were not going to repeat.

[big_palooka]

12 hours ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

I'm not so sure anymore that another 8-9 season would be enough for me to not fire JMD anyways. I see a guy who is too proud to use his players the right way. Same for guys who don't fit his system. Barring something shocking, I'm out on him and the bum qb he brought in.

I completely understand that. What players do think are not being used the right way? Renfro? I think he's being used right, just not getting the ball. Because really nobody is because Jimmy G is forcing it at Adams. 

For me, it's all tied to Jimmy G. These guys brought him in. They could have rebuilt with a rookie or stop gap type vet. They brought in this dude to run the offense he's familiar with. As he goes, they go for me.

[Jeremy408]

1 hour ago, big_palooka said:

I guess we will see? I get the frustration and out rage culture we live in, but it's still been 3 weeks. And it's never how you start. 

Last year, the Bears started 2-1, finished 3-14. The 49ers started 1-2, finished 13-4. Bengals started 1-2, finished 12-4. KC lost to the Colts early last season. 

Most teams are not playing their best football early in season. Making broad statements 3 weeks in make no sense to me. The Raiders offense is not as bad as it started. So I'll reserve judgement for the time being.

Lastly, I can't beat the dead horse over the 2021 playoff team any longer. That was a complete fluke. They were 7 win team who got some lucky breaks. They had the 4th worst negative point differential of all time to make the playoffs. They were not going to repeat.

Speculation 

[Darbsk]

1 hour ago, big_palooka said:

I completely understand that. What players do think are not being used the right way? Renfro? I think he's being used right, just not getting the ball. Because really nobody is because Jimmy G is forcing it at Adams. 

For me, it's all tied to Jimmy G. These guys brought him in. They could have rebuilt with a rookie or stop gap type vet. They brought in this dude to run the offense he's familiar with. As he goes, they go for me.

I’m in this boat too. Garoppolo at this stage has been a major disappointment I think it’s fair to say and maybe his ‘familiarity with the system’ was being overplayed so e in pre season seeing as he’s been in San Francisco for years.

We expected the guy to limit mistakes, take what the D gave him and just make the simple plays that were available, nothing flashy. We’ve not seen that to this point and though he’s not a great QB, I think it’s fair to say Garoppolo is better than he’s showing at the moment. We have to hope and expect him to play better as it’s totally derailing the offence right now and the defence is simply not good enough to make up for it. 

[ronjon1990]

On 9/29/2023 at 6:56 AM, Jeremy408 said:

Last week was supposed to be telling and the week before that. Every week is telling than they lose and then it's the next week 

Every week is a new week, a new leaf to be turned over, a new lease on coaching life for Josh McDaniels to him. 

Let it go lol. He will continue to just move the goalposts. At 1-6, we could still finish out a stretch at 7-7. At 1-10, 7-10 and a wildcard isn't totally out of the question. Next year we'll be breaking in a rookie QB so if we finish 4-13, we gotta give Josh an extension to see it through because guys will finally be rounding into form. 

He's already admitted that he doesn't have any rational or objective opinions on McDaniels, his rational only extends as far as simply not wanting to see another coaching change. That's it. Who cares if Josh McDaniels loses, we have the same coach dammit. If we latch onto Josh for another 20 years and extend the Raider misery another 2 decades, hey, at least it was just 1 coach and not turnover on a semi-annual basis. 

16 hours ago, Jeremy408 said:

Yeah, but Campbell is a better coach clearly. Obviously he's a better leader of men. In a lot of ways, he's actually the antithesis of Mcdaniels. He came back from a 1-6 start. McDaniels has blown an 6-0 start before. 

Imagine trying to compare Josh McDaniels and Dan Campbell and keeping a straight face. 

The Lions went clear rebuild, hit every beat correctly, and showed improvement on the field even in losses. The Lions players would have mutinied had Detroit fired him. 

You're 100% spot on. Campbell is the literal antithesis of Josh McDaniels. 

[big_palooka]

8 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

He's already admitted that he doesn't have any rational or objective opinions on McDaniels, his rational only extends as far as simply not wanting to see another coaching change. That's it.

This is nonsense. I've spoke on why I like JMD and his offense many times. 

 

[NCOUGHMAN]

10 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

This is nonsense. I've spoke on why I like JMD and his offense many times. 

 

Same outdated predictable offense Pittsburgh dbs we’re telling Adams that they knew the plays. That offense? The one that’s almost ranked last in the nfl?

[Jeremy408]

4 hours ago, ronjon1990 said:

He's already admitted that he doesn't have any rational or objective opinions on McDaniels, his rational only extends as far as simply not wanting to see another coaching change. That's it. Who cares if Josh McDaniels loses, we have the same coach dammit. If we latch onto Josh for another 20 years and extend the Raider misery another 2 decades, hey, at least it was just 1 coach and not turnover on a semi-annual basis. 

Oh yea, I forgot about that. I guess there's no need to argue then lol

4 hours ago, ronjon1990 said:

The Lions went clear rebuild, hit every beat correctly, and showed improvement on the field even in losses.

I said this that his first year when they had a horrible record. He's gotten them to play hard no matter what! Whoever we get has to be a leader of men.

[ronjon1990]

5 hours ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

Same outdated predictable offense Pittsburgh dbs we’re telling Adams that they knew the plays. That offense? The one that’s almost ranked last in the nfl?

If we just close our eyes, curl our toes, crinkle our noses and wish hard enough that the process we've all been told to absent-mindedly trust will work, maybe just maybe it will lol

[ronjon1990]

5 hours ago, big_palooka said:

This is nonsense. I've spoke on why I like JMD and his offense many times. 

 

We didn't hire him to be OC, we hired him to be HC. 

 

[big_palooka]

14 hours ago, ronjon1990 said:

We didn't hire him to be OC, we hired him to be HC. 

 

I agree with this part. He's failing as an HC.

19 hours ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

Same outdated predictable offense Pittsburgh dbs we’re telling Adams that they knew the plays. That offense? The one that’s almost ranked last in the nfl?

It's been 3 weeks. That offense has never had issues in the past. And even with Derek Carr playing poorly, they improved in DVOA, EPA and points from 2021 to 2022. 

15 hours ago, Jeremy408 said:

Oh yea, I forgot about that. I guess there's no need to argue then lol

I said this that his first year when they had a horrible record. He's gotten them to play hard no matter what! Whoever we get has to be a leader of men.

This whole "leader of men" stuff is cliché. Guys commented they would run through a wall for Gruden. Well that's great and all, but unless you can build a roster to do it who care? Bisaccia is such a "leader of men" but will never get a HC job because he has nothing else. 

Leadership is only one part of the equation. 

[BackinBlack]

3 hours ago, big_palooka said:

 Bisaccia is such a "leader of men" but will never get a HC job because he has nothing else. 

 

based of the last 20 years or so, the fact the Raiders turned down Bisaccia is probably the best logic I have that he wouldve been a great HC. 

[NCOUGHMAN]

4 hours ago, big_palooka said:

I agree with this part. He's failing as an HC.

It's been 3 weeks. That offense has never had issues in the past. And even with Derek Carr playing poorly, they improved in DVOA, EPA and points from 2021 to 2022. 

This whole "leader of men" stuff is cliché. Guys commented they would run through a wall for Gruden. Well that's great and all, but unless you can build a roster to do it who care? Bisaccia is such a "leader of men" but will never get a HC job because he has nothing else. 

Leadership is only one part of the equation. 

Gruden guys snuck in the playoffs