Return of the FB

[wackywabbit]

3 hours ago, Kiwibrown said:

Having lamar helps as a qb for a full back like that. 

Lamar and JuiceCheck never overlapped. It's been Ricard with Lamar.

[Jakuvious]

So, what qualifies as FB returning, here? Because even those listed in the thread with heavier usage are still at like 1/3 of their team's snaps this year. Only Juice had higher than 40%, that I could see. And that still has the issue of a one game sample size. So a blowout, like Browns/Ravens, for instance, would presumably feature an inflated count for Baltimore, and deflated for Cleveland, due to who could run all game (Ricard was at a 39% snap count, at the higher end, 10% up from last year, but probably due to the blowout more than an actual schematic change.)

[fluhartz]

On 9/18/2020 at 11:57 AM, Malfatron said:

Just like return of the mack.

and mack was a fb

lol.. first thing that popped in to my head 

[wackywabbit]

11 minutes ago, Jakuvious said:

So, what qualifies as FB returning, here? Because even those listed in the thread with heavier usage are still at like 1/3 of their team's snaps this year. Only Juice had higher than 40%, that I could see. And that still has the issue of a one game sample size. So a blowout, like Browns/Ravens, for instance, would presumably feature an inflated count for Baltimore, and deflated for Cleveland, due to who could run all game (Ricard was at a 39% snap count, at the higher end, 10% up from last year, but probably due to the blowout more than an actual schematic change.)

I'd call a player who plays a third of snaps on offense of the ball significant. You mention Ricard's snap count last year, but he played 30.95% of offensive snaps, 14.29% of defensive snaps, and 23.56% of special teams snaps. They have said that he's going to focus more on offense this year. Also with Hayden Hurst gone and the 3 TE rotation gone, he'll be closer to 40% in the team's plans this year.

The Ravens actually lined up a TE as a FB quite a bit last year, which is how they got those TEs on the field. Also an extra RB from time to time. So you can't look at one player to say that is the percent of time they used that position.

Edited September 20, 2020 by wackywabbit

[Jakuvious]

17 minutes ago, wackywabbit said:

I'd call a player who plays a third of snaps on offense of the ball significant. You mention Ricard's snap count last year, but he played 30.95% of offensive snaps, 14.29% of defensive snaps, and 23.56% of special teams snaps. They have said that he's going to focus more on offense this year. Also with Hayden Hurst gone and the 3 TE rotation gone, he'll be closer to 40% in the team's plans this year.

But that's why I ask, what constitutes the thread's suggested, "Return of the FB"? Like, Ricard's impact or snap count isn't insignificant, I never said it was, but it's also not really changed. It's no different than what Harbaugh has really ever done. At least as far back as PFR's snap counts go. Michael Burton, week 1, for New Orleans, was at 25%. Zach Line, John Kuhn, Jed Collins were all in the 20-25% range, except the one year Jed Collins hit 40%. Juice is being used as he always has. The Pats aren't doing anymore than they did when they had Develin. Sherman's snap count with CEH in KC matches what it was when we had Hunt and Charles. Just dipped when we had a lesser running game, really. Seattle had 1 snap from their FB week 1, but that's in line with them never really having used one all that much in the Carroll era.

I'm just trying to understand where this supposed uptick is to call it a return of the FB. Because the team's that have always used FBs still are. Those that haven't still by and large aren't all that much. No one is substantially up in FB usage. Even those that use it heavily, with the exception of Juice, are still using much them less often than they don['t. Unless I'm missing huge outliers here outside the 10+ teams I've checked.

[wackywabbit]

3 minutes ago, Jakuvious said:

But that's why I ask, what constitutes the thread's suggested, "Return of the FB"? Like, Ricard's impact or snap count isn't insignificant, I never said it was, but it's also not really changed. It's no different than what Harbaugh has really ever done. At least as far back as PFR's snap counts go. Michael Burton, week 1, for New Orleans, was at 25%. Zach Line, John Kuhn, Jed Collins were all in the 20-25% range, except the one year Jed Collins hit 40%. Juice is being used as he always has. The Pats aren't doing anymore than they did when they had Develin. Sherman's snap count with CEH in KC matches what it was when we had Hunt and Charles. Just dipped when we had a lesser running game, really. Seattle had 1 snap from their FB week 1, but that's in line with them never really having used one all that much in the Carroll era.

I'm just trying to understand where this supposed uptick is to call it a return of the FB. Because the team's that have always used FBs still are. Those that haven't still by and large aren't all that much. No one is substantially up in FB usage. Even those that use it heavily, with the exception of Juice, are still using much them less often than they don['t. Unless I'm missing huge outliers here outside the 10+ teams I've checked.

Yes, I agree with your point then. It never faded or rose in significance for certain teams/offenses.

[Kiwibrown]

2 hours ago, wackywabbit said:

Lamar and JuiceCheck never overlapped. It's been Ricard with Lamar.

Yeah I know, obviously juicecheck as you calm him is superior, you wouldnt want to be as one dimensional without a qb like Lamar imo. 

 

But I'm just a kiwi on the net talking abou4 football.

[candyman93]

I have the same reaction when Janovich blocks for Nick Chubb

 

 

[Deadpulse]

I feel like everyone missed the post where it showed the Patriots with the most FB snaps by a wide margin in 2019. So many people claiming FB superiority for their team. I just... idk

[JAF-N72EX]

5 hours ago, Jakuvious said:

But that's why I ask, what constitutes the thread's suggested, "Return of the FB"? Like, Ricard's impact or snap count isn't insignificant, I never said it was, but it's also not really changed. It's no different than what Harbaugh has really ever done. At least as far back as PFR's snap counts go. Michael Burton, week 1, for New Orleans, was at 25%. Zach Line, John Kuhn, Jed Collins were all in the 20-25% range, except the one year Jed Collins hit 40%. Juice is being used as he always has. The Pats aren't doing anymore than they did when they had Develin. Sherman's snap count with CEH in KC matches what it was when we had Hunt and Charles. Just dipped when we had a lesser running game, really. Seattle had 1 snap from their FB week 1, but that's in line with them never really having used one all that much in the Carroll era.

I'm just trying to understand where this supposed uptick is to call it a return of the FB. Because the team's that have always used FBs still are. Those that haven't still by and large aren't all that much. No one is substantially up in FB usage. Even those that use it heavily, with the exception of Juice, are still using much them less often than they don['t. Unless I'm missing huge outliers here outside the 10+ teams I've checked.

And just to add to this and your other post. Are these FB snap counts/stats accounting for players who play the FB role on certain downs but are listed as TEs? For example, JP Holtz is listed asa TE but played a big role while lining up what would usually be a FB.