Sam Darnold to The Giants

[ET80]

Just because we're chatting about it, I'll go ahead and say it - Josh Rosen will go #1, over Sam Darnold.

[Kip Smithers]

1 hour ago, Yin-Yang said:

Wrong. They save money by cutting him. I honestly have no idea why you even bothered responding when I specifically commented on people who wanted Eli gone (you clearly don’t). Don’t be so emotional.

Yes I acknowledge I was wrong there. It's not about me wanting ELi to stay. I'm speaking to those that think using another QB will actually help us with this current squad thst is not in need of a rebuild or overhaul. That's my issue. If Eli was a problem then fine. It's not emotional. 

1 hour ago, Yin-Yang said:

His high usage of personnel groupings have made the offense lack creativity or the ability to surprise an opponent. His run-pass personnel and patterns are so easy that I’m sitting at home, able to to predict what’s coming next - what do you think NFL coaches think? Despite a bad offensive line, he seems to have moved away from the quick strike plays from when he was OC. His game preparation suffers because of his lack of versatility in that they attack each team the same way. Cover Odell, and you hold the offense to below 20 points and often times even less - how is that a good job by a play caller? Opponents have even come out to say as much on more than one occasion. You keep disregarding it as fan-talk when he has legitimately been a problem. 

If you’re going to admit he’s predictable, then how is he not at fault for their struggles? Or at least, why are you mitigating his role in this?

Again how can you be creative when you're stricken by the o-line. Like do you not realise how it impacts your playbook. Is easier to game plan. The system itself very similar to GB. A lot of Isolation routes. But I didn't here this when we were a top 10 offense. As far as creativity you can only do so much. Lol "surprise" opponents. Very rarely are teams surprised by the plays run. A play or two, sure. But very rarely do you see teams at end of games surprised at the plays because that's what preparation is for. Oh really you're able to predict what's plays are being run? The receiving core was plenty criticised last year and you're complaining about the lack of variety in personnel groupings. You had Odell and Shepard. And an in and out Cruz. After that it was largely undrafted guys. Them using 11 personnel 90% of the time is a valid criticism. At the end of the day a playcaller can only do so much he can't run the routes for you. He can't magically get you open. This team can't run block or run block competently. So defenses can throw so much at you or make it difficult to throw through them. McAdoo has a hard job with this personnel. This wasn't McAdoo being stubborn. This was him acknowledging that the personnel here limits what he can do on offense. I recognise that. 

1 hour ago, Yin-Yang said:

You make it sound like I said Eli’s the sole reason they’re winless, when on multiple occasions, I’ve highlighted several factors as to why this team is garbage this year. 

Eli hasn’t been great because of his circumstances and limitations, but also because he has regressed as a passer.

Did I say you said that? That's on you. Ive also said that there are other reasons why the team has fallen off a cliff. So what are you talking about? Me defending Eli isn't a response of you saying he's the sole reason. His short accuracy has never been very good. His ball placement on said passes have been all over the place but as deep passer when he's had the time has been much better than in recent years. His arm strength is still intact. 

 

1 hour ago, Yin-Yang said:

Again...if you’d have read my original post without so many emotions, you’d have seen that I said depending on how you feel about these crop of QBs that are receiving a ton of hype. I didn’t say there definitely was or wasn’t anything, I said in the scenario that you want to move on from Eli and a blue chip prospect is staring you in the eye, you take him. 

You're all over the place. One minute you're saying if the Giants feel this way and in another minute you're saying well there are blue chip prospects which is speaking from their perspective rather yours. 

1 hour ago, Yin-Yang said:

As far as I can tell, there haven’t been any can’t-miss, blue chip QB prospects that lasted until the 3rd round (Wilson wasn’t that), but there have been in the top 5. And yes, if the Giants feel he is as talented/has as much potential as Darnold/Rosen/whomever, then you can pass on that guy in this year’s draft - but Webb doesn’t likely have the resume that some of these kids coming out will. I’m pretty confident in that Webb isn’t a first rounder in any QB class.

I don't even know what you're saying at this point. What does me pointing out how the Giants may feel about him lead to you to say this?

 

 

[Soko]

@Kip Smithers Sigh

Yes or no, do you believe that - should the Giants choose to move on from Eli and a blue chip QB prospect is sitting there - that the Giants should pass because of the traffic cones playing tackle?

[riceman80]

Well as if things couldn't get worse the Giants, DRC has been suspended after getting heated with McAdoo about his role and decided to leave the team...

Even if they overhaul the offense, Eli has to be part of that overhaul. His arm is on life support...

[bananabucket]

Late to the party but I'll be damned if I read 7 pages.

I say if the Giants do wind up in position to draft Darnold or Rosen, they have to do it.  When are they going to get this chance again?

[ET80]

2 hours ago, riceman80 said:

Well as if things couldn't get worse the Giants, DRC has been suspended after getting heated with McAdoo about his role and decided to leave the team...

Just read about this, as well as Eli Apple taking shots at the team culture. Yeah, a rebuild might be in order. 

As much as you want Rosen or Darnold, I think you postpone finding a QB in an effort to fortify everywhere else. You have to purge the current roster and just rebuild the entire culture from the bottom up. 

[Kip Smithers]

3 hours ago, riceman80 said:

Well as if things couldn't get worse the Giants, DRC has been suspended after getting heated with McAdoo about his role and decided to leave the team...

Even if they overhaul the offense, Eli has to be part of that overhaul. His arm is on life support...

Eli's arm is fine. Arm strength Is more/less the same as it has been. Accuracy more or less the same. He's never been very accurate short but his deep ball is better than it as been in recent memory.

[Kip Smithers]

5 hours ago, Yin-Yang said:

@Kip Smithers Sigh

Yes or no, do you believe that - should the Giants choose to move on from Eli and a blue chip QB prospect is sitting there - that the Giants should pass because of the traffic cones playing tackle?

If they feel there is a blue chip prospect then I'm for it. They won't move on from him as long they know they have his replacement in place should they need to move on.

[Kip Smithers]

50 minutes ago, EliteTexan80 said:

Just read about this, as well as Eli Apple taking shots at the team culture. Yeah, a rebuild might be in order. 

As much as you want Rosen or Darnold, I think you postpone finding a QB in an effort to fortify everywhere else. You have to purge the current roster and just rebuild the entire culture from the bottom up. 

Come on man. The team is 0-5. They had very high expectations. The locker room isn't gonna exactly be harmonious. It's a product of the situation. 

[ET80]

1 hour ago, Kip Smithers said:

Come on man. The team is 0-5. They had very high expectations. The locker room isn't gonna exactly be harmonious. It's a product of the situation. 

And those things are usually handled in house. If you have players rioting to the press, it means things are spiraling out of control.

There is a lot of younger talent on the team, so I'm not talking full implosion. You're going to have to part ways with some guys who seem like key guys, but who are "locker room lawyers" to borrow a phrase.

[minutemancl]

2 hours ago, EliteTexan80 said:

Just read about this, as well as Eli Apple taking shots at the team culture. Yeah, a rebuild might be in order. 

As much as you want Rosen or Darnold, I think you postpone finding a QB in an effort to fortify everywhere else. You have to purge the current roster and just rebuild the entire culture from the bottom up. 

If you are in the position to get a franchise QB and you need one, you get him. Eli hasn't been terrible, but he is 36. Start the rebuild with a new face of the franchise. We tried to get away with a "reload", but obviously that hasn't worked out. Need a top to bottom rebuild. We are in a good position though where there is a decent amount of young talent on the team. You could do a lot, lot worse than OBJ on offense and Landon Collins on defense as building blocks.

[ET80]

4 minutes ago, minutemancl said:

If you are in the position to get a franchise QB and you need one, you get him. Eli hasn't been terrible, but he is 36. Start the rebuild with a new face of the franchise. We tried to get away with a "reload", but obviously that hasn't worked out. Need a top to bottom rebuild. We are in a good position though where there is a decent amount of young talent on the team. You could do a lot, lot worse than OBJ on offense and Landon Collins on defense as building blocks.

I'm just wary of putting a rookie QB behind a questionable line - was one of the reasons I wanted Savage over Watson going into the season.

[Soko]

2 hours ago, Kip Smithers said:

If they feel there is a blue chip prospect then I'm for it. 

I’m glad that after all that back and forth, you agree with me. 

[minutemancl]

3 hours ago, EliteTexan80 said:

I'm just wary of putting a rookie QB behind a questionable line - was one of the reasons I wanted Savage over Watson going into the season.

 Yeah that's a concern for sure, but Eli is still here and under contract for a little while. No doubt he would still start even if we take a rookie this year. That gives us 2 years to build a capable line. Bottom line is you can't pass on a franchise QB.

[Iamcanadian]

2 hours ago, minutemancl said:

 Yeah that's a concern for sure, but Eli is still here and under contract for a little while. No doubt he would still start even if we take a rookie this year. That gives us 2 years to build a capable line. Bottom line is you can't pass on a franchise QB.

Obviously, the Giants would take a potential franchise QB if they get to draft that high, Eli is simply nearing the end of the line and may well retire sooner rather than later. It is also pretty obvious, that he would be playing far better with a stronger OL, a position the Giants have been failing at improving. Pugh and Flowers being failures as LT's.

It may all come down to luck, the Giants are too talented to win over Cleveland, the Jets and Indy(if Luck cannot come back), for high picks, but you never know. Anything can happen and a surprise win here and there by those teams, could just spring them into contention.