Sam Darnold to The Giants

[Forge]

3 hours ago, jebrick said:

I think Fauk from Wash St. will be in the conversation for #1 overall.  Accurate and makes quick decisions.  Darnold needs another year of seasoning.  i hope he takes it.

I can't see that at all. Of course, I don't think he's very good and the NFL might, but I think it'll certainly catch me off guard. I dont' think that he goes in the top 5 quarterbacks and maybe not top 8 depending on who comes out (Darnold, Rosen, Allen, Mayfield, Jackson, Rudolph I think are all locks to go ahead of him...a guy like Browning could). 

[GreenMean69]

17 minutes ago, Kip Smithers said:

 

The Giants shouldn't draft a QB because Eli is still the best option, he has a contract that barring a pay cut will incur a huge cap hit and as a result it be a waste.

2

 

Eli is getting worse and worse . He has always been on to shy away from contact and took a dive when defenders got close . Now if a defender gets 5 feet to him he falls down into the fetal postion .  He gives he WR's no chance at all to get open .... He could step up in the posket some or even move just some .... but no ... fetal postion it is 

[iknowcool]

1 hour ago, Kip Smithers said:

No it's like one or two pieces away. 

On top of that you have a QB in Eli that has 3 years left on his deal. Barring a precipitous decline, he's not getting cut. So you could very well have a QB sitting for 2 years. 

What is wrong with that?  Rodgers sat for 3 years.

I think you are overlooking how rare it is to have a shot at acquiring a potential franchise QB.  I'm not just talking about some pick in the teens or early 20s.  If the Giants are picking in the top 5 and think there is a top-tier QB prospect, you have to pull the trigger.  Eli is going to be 37 years old next year.  "Barring a precipitous decline" makes it seem like something that is unlikely, but we have seen it from older QBs over the years.  If it can happen to Favre, it can happen to a much lesser QB in Eli.  While Peyton had injuries that Eli isn't dealing with, he was still performing at a high level and his decline came out of nowhere (began in the second half of 2014 after a 112 QB Rating in his first 8 games).  

It is something that just happens and it is bound to happen to Eli, if it hasn't already.  If you are passing up on a great QB prospect because you have old Eli for the next 2-3 years, then you are making a huge mistake.  

[rrgm]

2 minutes ago, GreenMean69 said:

 

Eli is getting worse and worse . He has always been on to shy away from contact and took a dive when defenders got close . Now if a defender gets 5 feet to him he falls down into the fetal postion .  He gives he WR's no chance at all to get open .... He could step up in the posket some or even move just some .... but no ... fetal postion it is 

?? Eli is pretty tough in the pocket..

[GreenMean69]

4 minutes ago, rrgm said:

?? Eli is pretty tough in the pocket..

tough to pick up off the ground ?

[Soko]

24 minutes ago, Kip Smithers said:

Those comparisons you used are not even remotely close to the Giants. Peyton was coming off a serious injury that threatened to end his career or rather make him a significantly less QB. If Peyton had a torn ACL that year and it resulted in the top pick, you still think they move on from Peyton. 

The Giants shouldn't draft a QB because Eli is still the best option, he has a contract that barring a pay cut will incur a huge cap hit and as a result it be a waste.

My point about Luck had nothing to do with Peyton or his injury. It had to do with a bad football team. The year before, without a competent quarterback, the Colts could barely win games. The line wasn’t good. The receiving targets consisted of an old Reggie Wayne. The defense was mediocre at best. It still didn’t stop them from drafting a QB of the future. The Giants, should they choose to move on from Eli, shouldn’t make that mistake.

So yes, both teams are potentially facing blue chip QB prospects after a year that the rest of the team has shown very little, making the two teams “remotely similar”. 

As for what the Giants should or shouldn’t do, it’s a mistake to pass on a blue chip prospect (if they get the shot at one) because of Eli’s contract, IMO. Eli won’t be getting better with age and I don’t think all of his regression is because of the offensive line. Some, but not all. If they can draft Darnold or whomever, then let the guy sit to lead the franchise for the next 15-18 years, I say that’s an easy decision. That’d have much more of an impact than a good, young tackle would have. 

[Kip Smithers]

14 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

My point about Luck had nothing to do with Peyton or his injury. It had to do with a bad football team. The year before, without a competent quarterback, the Colts could barely win games. The line wasn’t good. The receiving targets consisted of an old Reggie Wayne. The defense was mediocre at best. It still didn’t stop them from drafting a QB of the future. The Giants, should they choose to move on from Eli, shouldn’t make that mistake.

So yes, both teams are potentially facing blue chip QB prospects after a year that the rest of the team has shown very little, making the two teams “remotely similar”. 

As for what the Giants should or shouldn’t do, it’s a mistake to pass on a blue chip prospect (if they get the shot at one) because of Eli’s contract, IMO. Eli won’t be getting better with age and I don’t think all of his regression is because of the offensive line. Some, but not all. If they can draft Darnold or whomever, then let the guy sit to lead the franchise for the next 15-18 years, I say that’s an easy decision. That’d have much more of an impact than a good, young tackle would have. 

Yes it there other issues did not stop them from taking Luck. But for one Luck was viewed as the best prospect in 25+ years. The Colts had a pretty steady formula where they felt a QB was their ticket back to prominence. Furthermore when you have problems in multiple spots the quickest way to solve those issues are a QB. The Giants issues are very specific. This isn't a team with a lot of glaring holes. It has one glaring hole, the o-line. Why draft a QB while ignoring the glaring hole that is stopping you from prominence? It's not same at all.

We spent a pretty high pick on a QB this past draft with the intention to let him sit and grow into a franchise QB. And don't give me " well if Webb comes in and looks the part then we can flip that for a 1st". How often does that happen. The Pats have a QB who teams aren't willing to give a 1st for who has experience. Our best bet is too trade down.

[Kip Smithers]

48 minutes ago, iknowcool said:

What is wrong with that?  Rodgers sat for 3 years.

I think you are overlooking how rare it is to have a shot at acquiring a potential franchise QB.  I'm not just talking about some pick in the teens or early 20s.  If the Giants are picking in the top 5 and think there is a top-tier QB prospect, you have to pull the trigger.  Eli is going to be 37 years old next year.  "Barring a precipitous decline" makes it seem like something that is unlikely, but we have seen it from older QBs over the years.  If it can happen to Favre, it can happen to a much lesser QB in Eli.  While Peyton had injuries that Eli isn't dealing with, he was still performing at a high level and his decline came out of nowhere (began in the second half of 2014 after a 112 QB Rating in his first 8 games).  

It is something that just happens and it is bound to happen to Eli, if it hasn't already.  If you are passing up on a great QB prospect because you have old Eli for the next 2-3 years, then you are making a huge mistake.  

Rodgers was drafted in the 20s. Not top 5. Huge difference.

I don't think it's rare these days. Nowadays we are seeing more and more young QBs making the transition better. It's not as rare as you think, if at all. If anything it's increasingly difficult to find a quality LT these days. That's the scarce commodity these days.

Again we drafted a QB in the third round, if you think he can be something then why draft another one?  

It can happen, but we don't know when and QBs are playing longer. Peyton had injuries, as did Favre. Brees is still playing, Brady is. It's not unreasonable to think Eli can play for a couple more years at a solid level

[SteelKing728]

Rosen will go #1. Darnold stays in school.

[Soko]

24 minutes ago, Kip Smithers said:

Yes it there other issues did not stop them from taking Luck. But for one Luck was viewed as the best prospect in 25+ years. The Colts had a pretty steady formula where they felt a QB was their ticket back to prominence. Furthermore when you have problems in multiple spots the quickest way to solve those issues are a QB. The Giants issues are very specific. This isn't a team with a lot of glaring holes. It has one glaring hole, the o-line. Why draft a QB while ignoring the glaring hole that is stopping you from prominence? It's not same at all.

We spent a pretty high pick on a QB this past draft with the intention to let him sit and grow into a franchise QB. And don't give me " well if Webb comes in and looks the part then we can flip that for a 1st". How often does that happen. The Pats have a QB who teams aren't willing to give a 1st for who has experience. Our best bet is too trade down.

Okay, glad we moved from “not remotely similar” to “not the same”. We’re getting somewhere. 

I don’t know what nonsense you’re talking about in terms of the Colts’ “formula”. They had a shot at taking a blue chip QB prospect and did it, even with a bad team. You can’t say that it’s only because Luck is a generational prospect either because other teams have done the same thing. Cam Newton. Jared Goff. Mitchell Trubisky. Carson Wentz. Blake Bortles. It is not uncommon at all for teams to take a QB prospect when the team isn’t set around them. If anything, the reverse is true. 

And no, the Giants don’t have one glaring hole. You’re delusional if you think the team is winless at this point because of the two tackle positions. McAdoo is an issue as a play caller. Eli has regressed. Marshall seems done. Shepard hasn’t taken a leap. The defense isn’t as good as it was last year. That’s not one issue. 

As for the baseless comments in your second paragraph, I’m hesitant to even ackownledge them. But:

1) We don’t know what the Patriots got offered. 

2) Webb was, by definition, a mid round pick - not a high one. 

3) I don’t pretend to know the Giants’ intention with Webb. Meaning, I don’t know if they needed a competent backup or if they think he can actually become a franchise guy. Nobody really knows. 

4) Wasn’t going to say flip him into a first. Webb doesn’t have the promise of many of the QB prospects that could come out this year, and to skip one of them because of an already spent 3rd round pick, is senseless.

[KhanYouDigIt]

Giants should trade Eli to the Jags for a 3rd rounder. 

[Gmen]

Anyone a Josh Allen fan?

[Norm]

6 hours ago, GreenMean69 said:

 

Eli is getting worse and worse . He has always been on to shy away from contact and took a dive when defenders got close . Now if a defender gets 5 feet to him he falls down into the fetal postion .  He gives he WR's no chance at all to get open .... He could step up in the posket some or even move just some .... but no ... fetal postion it is 

I wonder who he learned that from.

[Forge]

4 hours ago, Gmen said:

Anyone a Josh Allen fan?

I'm probably one of the biggest Allen fans on the site. He's not ready. I don't think he's destroyed his draft stock or anything, but man, he's got some work to do. This season has been awful. I still think he comes out, and I'm probably going to say that he'll still go in the first round (not sure about top 5 or anything), but he needs to sit, learn, develop his passing a little more if he can, particularly the accuracy. Kid has immense talent, and one of the higher ceilings in this draft. If all works out perfectly, he could be Big Ben. Or he could be a slightly taller, slightly slower Jake Locker. 

[Iamcanadian]

7 hours ago, Forge said:

I can't see that at all. Of course, I don't think he's very good and the NFL might, but I think it'll certainly catch me off guard. I dont' think that he goes in the top 5 quarterbacks and maybe not top 8 depending on who comes out (Darnold, Rosen, Allen, Mayfield, Jackson, Rudolph I think are all locks to go ahead of him...a guy like Browning could). 

I love your list and agree that Falk will not be a high pick. Leach QB's are 100% system guys without a whole lot of pro potential.