AngusMcFife Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 19 minutes ago, drew39k said: Can't that be said for virtually any QB? Give an average QB a top tier o-line and run game and they will look good. Give a good QB a bad oline and a weak running game and they will struggle. Give Lamar top tier o-line play and he's MVP. Not the same for virtually any QB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngusMcFife Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 1 hour ago, AkronsWitness said: It's because he doesn't have any natural talent as a passer and it's showing just as it did pre-draft. Mike McCoy and John Fox saved Tebow and Harbaugh/Roman are saving Jackson. Coaching can only get you so far Saved Tebow? He couldn't get on the field year 3, was out of the league year 4. You don't even know NFL history at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonanza23 Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, BlaqOptic said: I'm just hear for the Ravens-Browns fans interactions with the Browns being better right now. This topic is gonna be gold. No joy? Edited November 23, 2020 by Bonanza23 Oh our record is better than them, we are not better than them. Thought I’d reprove you on the technicality Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngusMcFife Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 1 hour ago, Vladimir L said: nfl wasnt as pass happy and qb werent as protected That's why I said "even adjusting for era". In 2019 the NY/A was 6.3 In 2004 the NY/A was 6.1 Lamar's passing is WAY better than Vick's, considering that difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngusMcFife Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 1 hour ago, Jakuvious said: Spending is a terrible way to measure quality. It has more to do with timing. Spending is bottomed out because Jackson, Boyle, Andrews, both Browns, and Stanley are all still on rookie deals. Even a couple of those players jumping up to market value would dramatically change that ranking without changing the roster. For another example, the Steelers have one of the best offensive supporting casts in the league, and cap spending is identical save for the difference between Ben's veteran contract and Lamar's rookie deal. The 2018 Chiefs had one of the cheapest offenses in the league that year, because Kelce was the only star who had been paid yet. Wrong on Boyle. And I'm not sure what kind of contract Orlando and Hollywood Brown will get. Not sure they are that good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AkronsWitness Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 3 minutes ago, AngusMcFife said: Saved Tebow? He couldn't get on the field year 3, was out of the league year 4. You don't even know NFL history at all. By saved, I mean pivoted and designing a offense around the QBs ineptitude passing the ball. And yes, if Jackson can't figure out how to throw a football he will be out of the NFL in 4-5 years. There is only so much running around you can do to surprise defenses. Just like Tebow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngusMcFife Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 1 hour ago, AkronsWitness said: And the Falcons coaching staff tried their best to make Vick run a traditional offense. He never had a offense tailored for him like Jackson does for the last 2 years. I'm just calling it like it is. Vick had ZERO help from the coaching staff and Jackson has all of the benefit in the world. Their passing stats should look different It's true that read option was not a part of the NFL in the mid-2000s. But it looks like it's going to be a part of offenses going forward. So I don't know why you would downgrade Lamar, because he's the best in the league at running a certain play that is a staple of NFL offenses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngusMcFife Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 1 minute ago, AkronsWitness said: By saved, I mean pivoted and designing a offense around the QBs ineptitude passing the ball. And yes, if Jackson can't figure out how to throw a football he will be out of the NFL in 4-5 years. There is only so much running around you can do to surprise defenses. Just like Tebow. Tebow was never good though. He never was the best player on the best offense in the league for a season. Your player comparisons are just awful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngusMcFife Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 24 minutes ago, FrantikRam said: That's a good point, but generally once a QB gets paid the team around him will naturally get worse as it's harder to keep everyone. So once he gets paid, his team will likely be even worse than it is now Unless Lamar gets better, which is fairly likely given he is 23. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AkronsWitness Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, AngusMcFife said: Tebow was never good though. He never was the best player on the best offense in the league for a season. Your player comparisons are just awful. When has Jackson ever been known as a good passer of the football. If you can't see the comparisons with Tebow and Jackson than I'll just chalk it up to the Baltimore education system. Edited November 23, 2020 by AkronsWitness Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngusMcFife Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 1 minute ago, AkronsWitness said: When has Jackson ever been known as a good passer of the football. If you can't see the comparisons with Tebow and Jackson than I'll just chalk it up to the Baltimore education system. Lamar is very good a certain throws: short throws, intermediate throws over the middle, sidearm throws. He's got a very quick release. He can improve his intermediate throws to the outside and deep throws, for sure. Tebow was never good at any throws, and had a slow release. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AkronsWitness Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 4 minutes ago, AngusMcFife said: Lamar is very good a certain throws: short throws, intermediate throws over the middle, sidearm throws. He's got a very quick release. He can improve his intermediate throws to the outside and deep throws, for sure. Tebow was never good at any throws, and had a slow release. Wrong. Tebow was a very good deep ball thrower, he just had no touch or accuracy on short/intermediate routes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 19 minutes ago, AkronsWitness said: When has Jackson ever been known as a good passer of the football. If you can't see the comparisons with Tebow and Jackson than I'll just chalk it up to the Baltimore education system. Literally all of last year? There is comparison to Tim Tebow. The dude sucked at football, which is why he flashed out. He had a good defense. He had good receivers. He had a good OL and running game, AND HE WEIGHED THAT ENTIRE TEAM DOWN. Lamar Jackson won MVP last year with less than Tim Tebow ever had in Denver. This comparison is a joke. It's fair to say Lamar has regressed to perhaps what is his mean/average this year, and he's far more average than we believed he was last year, but he's still a competent QB right now in a terrible system for throwing the ball. There's a lot of details I won't get into, so basically I'll just say that Lamar has regressed, the NFL has figured out the Ravens' scheme, and there's not much he can do passing when he has one target who is a TE and not much else. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
showtime Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 I don't think it's other teams. Lamar Jackson is just playing poorly. Guys are open and he waits so long to throw the ball. He doesn't put enough velocity on certain throws even though he has a rocket for an arm and it allows defenders to make a play on the ball. He's regressed massively. It's kind of like what happened to Cam Newton when he had that one legendary year and won MVP and then never played like that again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkippyX Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 (edited) I'd say he has started higher and he is falling faster than Roman's first dual threat QB Of course this is only a 33/32 game sample but the 'guy in a very good situation for the offense and then it degrades' is pretty similar. Almost all of the passing numbers are gigantic red flags. Greg Roman QB #1 First 23 games: 17 - 6 with 31 TDs 11 picks and a 93.9 rating (league average 85.8) yards per attempt 7.9 completion % 59.8 (LA 61.1%) yards per game passing 172.8 (LA 233.4) 939 yards rushing 9 TDs at 6.1 per carry Next 10 games: 6-4 with 14 TDs 5 picks and a 92.0 rating (league average 88.9) yards per attempt 7.4 completion % 60.5 (LA 62.6) yards per game passing 210.6 (LA 236.8) 322 yards rushing 0 TDs 4.9 per carry --------------------------------- Greg Roman QB #2 First 22 games: 19-3 with 42 TDs 9 picks and a 104.7 rating (league average 91.7) yards per attempt 7.6 completion % 63.7 (league average 64.2) yards per game passing 192.8 (league average 236.4) 1901 yards 12 TDs at 5.9 per carry Next 10 games: 6-4 with 15 TDs 7 picks 91.9 rating (league average 94.6) yards per attempt 7.1 completion % 63.4 (league average 65.7) passing yards per game 194.8 (LA 242.6) 524 yards 3 TDs at 5.8 per carry None of this means Lamar Jackson is going to get injured and have his Harbaugh leave and have his team fall apart further. Edited November 23, 2020 by SkippyX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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