How good would LAR be without Goff?

[rocky_rams]

Goff Sucks

[Riftty]

2 hours ago, rocky_rams said:

Goff Sucks

He's not elite thats for sure. But with a good run game and if he is allowed to get in a rhythm he can be scary. He is basically kirk Cousins 2.0. 

Our defense and Mcvay are good enough to win a superbowl. But one bad outing from Goff in the play offs can derail that.

[FrantikRam]

The thing with Goff is that he's now predictably inconsistent.

If we play a team with a great pass defense, he's not going to play well. It sure seems like McVay has schemed him up with the lack of down field throws and having Woods and Kupp, who are great after the catch.

Rams fans are too invested in him IMO - it's a bit odd. He's clearly an average QB this year, and was average last year - in this evaluation I'm giving him credit for leading the offense to so many rushing TDs. Last year and this year we have an inordinate amount of rushing TDs relative to how many passing yards we have - but I'm also knocking him for leading the NFL in turnovers the last two years and I'm sure without checking he's allowed the most defensive TDs. That is flat out unacceptable. Put those two together and sprinkle in the two awful throws per game, I think I'm being kind in saying he's average.

Fortunately for the Rams, the Packers, Seahawks, Cardinals, and Bucs don't have the defenses to trouble him. The Saints might but he's always had success against them and I can't tell if their defense is really this good or if they've feasted on bad teams lately.

[stl4life07]

5 hours ago, FrantikRam said:

The thing with Goff is that he's now predictably inconsistent.

If we play a team with a great pass defense, he's not going to play well. It sure seems like McVay has schemed him up with the lack of down field throws and having Woods and Kupp, who are great after the catch.

Rams fans are too invested in him IMO - it's a bit odd. He's clearly an average QB this year, and was average last year - in this evaluation I'm giving him credit for leading the offense to so many rushing TDs. Last year and this year we have an inordinate amount of rushing TDs relative to how many passing yards we have - but I'm also knocking him for leading the NFL in turnovers the last two years and I'm sure without checking he's allowed the most defensive TDs. That is flat out unacceptable. Put those two together and sprinkle in the two awful throws per game, I think I'm being kind in saying he's average.

Fortunately for the Rams, the Packers, Seahawks, Cardinals, and Bucs don't have the defenses to trouble him. The Saints might but he's always had success against them and I can't tell if their defense is really this good or if they've feasted on bad teams lately.

When you think about it how many QBs can consistently do well against great pass defense? Only QBs come to mind are Mahomes and Peyton because you couldn’t blitz them.

You as a Rams fan should know that by how great QBs like Brees and Wilson struggle badly when they drop back 40+ times against the Rams great pass rush. Even when the Rams weren’t good they still had guys like Quinn and Long and the Saints in 2011 played the Rams a week after scoring 60pts against the Colts a franchise record in a game. Brees dropped back 44 times and turned the ball over twice and got sacked 6 times. You think Payton learned his lesson? Nope. Next meeting in 2013 Brees dropped back 59 times turned the ball over twice and got sacked 4 times. Both games the Saints loss. 

So of course if you ask Goff to drop back 61 times against the Dolphins pass rush a multiple turnover game could happen. Rams OL is solid but they aren’t the Colts or a healthy Eagles or Cowboys OL. Brady is the GOAT but even him dropping back 48 times against the Rams he turned the ball over twice, was fortunate not to have two more turnovers and was sacked and hit a lot. I think he barely completed 50% of his passes.

The thing is with Goff the first 7 games he wasn’t turning the ball over much because the Rams ran the ball the most in the NFL. For some reason they got away from it and McVay wanted Goff to throw 61 and 51 times. As I pointed out with Brees, it’s a recipe for disaster to drop back that many times against a great pass rush and have success. Same with the Seahawks letting Russ cook even we are starting to see Big Ben struggle because the Steelers are asking him to throw 50+ times a game. When he faced a tough defense in Washington he didn’t look good. So it’s not only Goff we can say this about every QB not named Mahomes and Peyton imo. If McVay get back to running the football like he has done the past two games Goff one turnover as a result then Goff will be good when it comes to taking care of the ball against great pass defenses and the team will have more success. 

Edited December 12, 2020 by stl4life07

[FrantikRam]

5 hours ago, stl4life07 said:

When you think about it how many QBs can consistently do well against great pass defense? Only QBs come to mind are Mahomes and Peyton because you couldn’t blitz them.

You as a Rams fan should know that by how great QBs like Brees and Wilson struggle badly when they drop back 40+ times against the Rams great pass rush. Even when the Rams weren’t good they still had guys like Quinn and Long and the Saints in 2011 played the Rams a week after scoring 60pts against the Colts a franchise record in a game. Brees dropped back 44 times and turned the ball over twice and got sacked 6 times. You think Payton learned his lesson? Nope. Next meeting in 2013 Brees dropped back 59 times turned the ball over twice and got sacked 4 times. Both games the Saints loss. 

So of course if you ask Goff to drop back 61 times against the Dolphins pass rush a multiple turnover game could happen. Rams OL is solid but they aren’t the Colts or a healthy Eagles or Cowboys OL. Brady is the GOAT but even him dropping back 48 times against the Rams he turned the ball over twice, was fortunate not to have two more turnovers and was sacked and hit a lot. I think he barely completed 50% of his passes.

The thing is with Goff the first 7 games he wasn’t turning the ball over much because the Rams ran the ball the most in the NFL. For some reason they got away from it and McVay wanted Goff to throw 61 and 51 times. As I pointed out with Brees, it’s a recipe for disaster to drop back that many times against a great pass rush and have success. Same with the Seahawks letting Russ cook even we are starting to see Big Ben struggle because the Steelers are asking him to throw 50+ times a game. When he faced a tough defense in Washington he didn’t look good. So it’s not only Goff we can say this about every QB not named Mahomes and Peyton imo. If McVay get back to running the football like he has done the past two games Goff one turnover as a result then Goff will be good when it comes to taking care of the ball against great pass defenses and the team will have more success. 

 

They look bad periodically. With Goff it's been a recurring theme since the Lions game in 2018.

I have no problem with him being an average player - wish the contract wasn't as big, but it is what it is. Goff's bad games this year against the Niners he was under almost no pressure in either game - and it's my expectation of any NFL QB that they limit turnovers regardless of pressure.

He also had some great games too.

But he's obviously not nearly as good as Brees and Wilson so it irks me when people pick out a bad game they've had to compare it to Goff.

As for passing the ball a lot - he still turns the ball over too much. 

[Hunter2_1]

McVay does such a good job with him. 

[stl4life07]

1 hour ago, FrantikRam said:

 

They look bad periodically. With Goff it's been a recurring theme since the Lions game in 2018.

I have no problem with him being an average player - wish the contract wasn't as big, but it is what it is. Goff's bad games this year against the Niners he was under almost no pressure in either game - and it's my expectation of any NFL QB that they limit turnovers regardless of pressure.

He also had some great games too.

But he's obviously not nearly as good as Brees and Wilson so it irks me when people pick out a bad game they've had to compare it to Goff.

As for passing the ball a lot - he still turns the ball over too much. 

You say picking out games, we can do with most players. PFF said Mahomes has had an inconsistent season and we think he is going to win the MVP.

Btw I’m not saying Goff is as good as Brees or Wilson I’m saying those QBs I’ve seen with my eyes specifically with the Rams who have packed a legit pass rush for many years when they decided or couldn’t run the ball and threw 40+ times they struggle badly.

Its no coincidence the last three times Wilson had great games a against the Rams his team ran the ball extremely well. So how come when I say Goff plays well when the Rams run the ball well it’s a bad thing? The let Russ cook thing historically has been a disaster. When the Seahawks truly has found success they leaned less on Russ and more on the ground game. As a matter of fact the one season Russ threw the most in his career the team went (9-7) and missed the playoffs. Brees has had seasons where he was throwing the ball 620+ times and he was turning the ball over 15+ times and 4 of those seasons the Saints were going (7-9) and miss the playoffs. Now to the credit around that time I did hear a few questioned the big contract the Saints gave Brees. Not because he wasn’t good but because that big contract ruined the team around him like the OL and defense. They had great drafts and did what? Had fixed their running game with Ingram and Kamara and asked Brees to do less where he wasn’t even throwing no more than 536 times and the turnovers went down drastically. 
 

Goff contract imo goes beyond stats. He is always available, he is a leader, even the little things like getting the Pats yes the Pats who don’t even commit penalties to jump offsides twice. Once on 4th and 2 at the goaline that helped the Rams score a td. You can’t just put just any QB under center and have that QB consistently be great at that. Goff is tough he definitely isn’t guy shy. He will take a big hit to get the ball down the field. He is resilient and again I’ll say that an average QB under any circumstance you can roll out and go (42-19) in over 3 seasons. That QB might have one good season but not over 3 good seasons. Now if you want to say a “better” QB the Rams would win more games and beat the Pats in the Superbowl that could be debated, but then I’m saying who? Mahomes didn’t beat the Pats in 2018. Then I doubt any QB would’ve went to New Orleans in the NFCCG the way that crowd was rocking and won like Goff did. 
 

The only way either the Goff believers or doubters are right will be continuing to see what happens especially after there is no more Whit permanently. Not talking about a few games I’m talking about Whit retires and then we will see because people said when the Rams start to lose pieces things will start to crumble because Goff isn’t that guy. Well the Rams lost two big pieces in Gurley and Cooks and the Rams offense still top 10 and the Rams are a better team. As Bucky Brooks said, we are so used to the flashy high powered Rams but this version of the Rams led by defense and a balanced offense is more positioned to win it all. 

Edited December 12, 2020 by stl4life07

[FrantikRam]

6 hours ago, stl4life07 said:

You say picking out games, we can do with most players. PFF said Mahomes has had an inconsistent season and we think he is going to win the MVP.

Btw I’m not saying Goff is as good as Brees or Wilson I’m saying those QBs I’ve seen with my eyes specifically with the Rams who have packed a legit pass rush for many years when they decided or couldn’t run the ball and threw 40+ times they struggle badly.

Its no coincidence the last three times Wilson had great games a against the Rams his team ran the ball extremely well. So how come when I say Goff plays well when the Rams run the ball well it’s a bad thing? The let Russ cook thing historically has been a disaster. When the Seahawks truly has found success they leaned less on Russ and more on the ground game. As a matter of fact the one season Russ threw the most in his career the team went (9-7) and missed the playoffs. Brees has had seasons where he was throwing the ball 620+ times and he was turning the ball over 15+ times and 4 of those seasons the Saints were going (7-9) and miss the playoffs. Now to the credit around that time I did hear a few questioned the big contract the Saints gave Brees. Not because he wasn’t good but because that big contract ruined the team around him like the OL and defense. They had great drafts and did what? Had fixed their running game with Ingram and Kamara and asked Brees to do less where he wasn’t even throwing no more than 536 times and the turnovers went down drastically. 
 

Goff contract imo goes beyond stats. He is always available, he is a leader, even the little things like getting the Pats yes the Pats who don’t even commit penalties to jump offsides twice. Once on 4th and 2 at the goaline that helped the Rams score a td. You can’t just put just any QB under center and have that QB consistently be great at that. Goff is tough he definitely isn’t guy shy. He will take a big hit to get the ball down the field. He is resilient and again I’ll say that an average QB under any circumstance you can roll out and go (42-19) in over 3 seasons. That QB might have one good season but not over 3 good seasons. Now if you want to say a “better” QB the Rams would win more games and beat the Pats in the Superbowl that could be debated, but then I’m saying who? Mahomes didn’t beat the Pats in 2018. Then I doubt any QB would’ve went to New Orleans in the NFCCG the way that crowd was rocking and won like Goff did. 
 

The only way either the Goff believers or doubters are right will be continuing to see what happens especially after there is no more Whit permanently. Not talking about a few games I’m talking about Whit retires and then we will see because people said when the Rams start to lose pieces things will start to crumble because Goff isn’t that guy. Well the Rams lost two big pieces in Gurley and Cooks and the Rams offense still top 10 and the Rams are a better team. As Bucky Brooks said, we are so used to the flashy high powered Rams but this version of the Rams led by defense and a balanced offense is more positioned to win it all. 

 

I'm neither a Goff believer or doubter. For whatever reason so many Rams fans do decide to take sides, and it's awful because, like you tend to do, so many people make excuses. The other side tends to blame him and never give him credit. Even just now, you said our offense is better - the reality is it's the lowest scoring offense we've had under McVay, but you'll have a reason of some kind for why that has nothing to do with Goff.

Football is crazy complex - the best WR ever with me at QB will have the worst stats in the NFL. But objectively, the Rams have a top 10 supporting cast and top 5 play caller - the weak link is Goff. The Goff supporters down play the supporting cast, which is just mind boggling to me that someone would go to that length.

Again, that's fine - in a few years his contract will probably be middle of the pack and his play won't bother me.

[tyler735]

FrantikRam is in here hitting his fellow Rams fans with the cold hard truth. Respect.

[FrantikRam]

Also, people get too caught up in how good a QB needs to be. Eli won two Super Bowls. Goff is definitely good enough and he's young and can still get better.

[tyler735]

Brad Johnson and Trent Diller won as well. It's possible with a mediocre QB such as Goff. More often than not though it's the team with the top level QB that wins it.

Edited December 13, 2020 by tyler735

[stl4life07]

It doesn’t matter though because I’ve come to realize first impressions for the most part is always key. First impression of Goff was he shouldn’t have been the 1st pick and year one he looks like a bust. So from there the second he struggles people are going to always go back to that first impression. Same thing happen with Josh Allen as well as Lamar. Lamar won MVP everything is great. The second he struggles it’s well he isn’t a good passer because thats what was the first impression of him coming out. Same with Allen people said he shouldn’t have been drafted that high. Bashed the Bills team for taking him and consider him a possible bust. He plays well great but the second he struggles like he did for a month this season the people say Allen is going to stop the Bills from truly being a serious threat because he is all over the place which was people first impression of him coming out of college.
 

So no matter what Goff does the first impression is always going to stick the second he doesn’t look good. But that’s ok I’ll take it with Goff helping them Rams win 42 games in over 3 seasons and always being in playoffs and Superbowl contention. Goff doesn’t need to be Mahomes, Brees, Brady, Wilson etc... Can’t talk about the contract crippling the Rams because they are even better because they draft and develop well they are well coached and the key is Goff does make the plays and does things to put and keep the Rams winning the majority of the games. As I always say, when the last time Goff blew a game the Rams was in position to win? Not a game the Rams were favorites to win but lost. I’m talking about the Rams were playing well and were in position to win at the half or in the 4th and Goff had a meltdown down and the team lost? Can’t think of one because it doesn’t really happen. Goff is fine, the Rams are fine. They never going to be perfect but we can nitpick a 3 turnovers game I’m the Dolphins when Goff shouldn’t have been throwing 61 times to begin with. We can nitpick the 2 turnovers in the 2nd half against the Bucs when Goff shouldn’t have been throwing 51 times to begin with although I know he had to because the Bucs are great at stopping the run. That wasn’t the case against the Dolphins thought. In the end like McVay constantly says he put the team in terrible positions that very few QBs can overcome. Against the Pats McVay did the smart thing and pound the ball because the Pats can’t stop it. As long as McVay is being smart and he is a great coach this team will be ok. The Rams will go as far as the combo of McVay/Goff takes them with this Superbowl ready defense and last time the Rams were in the playoffs the went to the Superbowl. So we shall see if another Superbowl run is in them.

[buno67]

I think Dak would be deadly in that Rams offense. McVay would be deadly with Dak and his legs running his scheme.

I think Watson and Dak would be considered easily a top5 QB if they were the current QB for the Rams

[stl4life07]

These are four QBs through their first 5 seasons, do what you will with this but I will say Goff (who is average to below average according to most) measures up pretty good with Peyton a HOF and Wilson and Brees two future HOF’er.

Jared Goff  67 games 1490/2344 (63.6%) 17728 Yds 105 TDs 53 INTs 10 R TDs 42 Fmbls

Russell Wilson 80 games  1476 /2321 (63.5%) 18193 Yds 127 TDs 45 INTs 12 R TDs 46 Fmbls

Peyton Manning 80 games  1749/2817  (62.1%)  20618 Yds 138 TDs 100 INTs 9 R TDs 27 Fmbls

Drew Brees 59 games 1025/1809 (56.7%) 12348 Yds 80 TDs 53 INTs 4 R TDs 24 Fmbls

Edited December 13, 2020 by stl4life07

[Hunter2_1]

On 12/11/2020 at 3:49 PM, rocky_rams said:

Goff Sucks

Was this serious or sarcasm?