2021 NBA Draft Thread

[NYRaider]

Just now, Sllim Pickens said:

The last two years, Sexton has been better than Beal on defense though.......

I think that also has a lot to do with Beal having to carry a historic scoring load. 

Over the last 2 seasons:

Beal: 30.9 ppg, 5.2 apg on 47% FG, 35% 3FG with a -2.0 DBPM

Sexton: 22.4 ppg, 3.6 apg on 47% FG, 37% 3FG, with a -2.0 DBPM

[H2ThaIzzo]

1 minute ago, NYRaider said:

I think that also has a lot to do with Beal having to carry a historic scoring load. 

Over the last 2 seasons:

Beal: 30.9 ppg, 5.2 apg on 47% FG, 35% 3FG with a -2.0 DBPM

Sexton: 22.4 ppg, 3.6 apg on 47% FG, 37% 3FG, with a -2.0 DBPM

so for context, lets say Sexton last season decided he wanted to take 23 shots a game too, and he scored 30 points a game rather than his measley 24, you'd give him a break for the defensive rating?

[NYRaider]

1 minute ago, H2ThaIzzo said:

so for context, lets say Sexton last season decided he wanted to take 23 shots a game too, and he scored 30 points a game rather than his measley 24, you'd give him a break for the defensive rating?

Do you in your heart of hearts believe that Sexton could've taken 5 more shots per game, maintained the same efficiency, and been one of the only 16 players in modern NBA history to average 30 ppg? 

[Sllim Pickens]

10 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

Except he averaged 24 ppg for 2 playoff teams with a -1.0 and -0.7 DBPM in the past. Sexton has legitimately been one of the 5 worst defensive players in the league for 3 consecutive years. 

Beal was the second worst defender in the NBA last year behind only Darius Garland.  He was bottom 15 this year.  Collin Sexton was bad as a rookie and gotten better since, even though he is next to another one of the leagues worst defenders on the perimeter.   Neither are great defenders, which is why I don't understand why one is so valued, while the other is trash.  Neither pass well, neither defend well, neither rebound well, but both shoot with nearly identical efficiency, although one plays with one of the better passing PGs in the league while the other plays with a decent second year guy so he gets less looks. 

[Sllim Pickens]

26 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

Do you in your heart of hearts believe that Sexton could've taken 5 more shots per game, maintained the same efficiency, and been one of the only 16 players in modern NBA history to average 30 ppg? 

I do.  If they switch spots I think the results are very similar.  He may not be able to in Cleveland because he doesn't have a true PG to help set him up yet.  Garland is decent but nothing special.  Add to that, Westbrook has been to the playoffs every year except 1 of the last 11 years.  So them creeping into the playoffs with Beal and Westbrook isn't a shining endorsement on Beal. 

Also you keep mentioning the historic scoring load but anyone else who has scored like that has been a plus DBPM.  Why didn't they dip?  

[Kirill]

On 7/14/2021 at 1:06 PM, NYRaider said:

Draft promises or not if you can move up for a player you consider elite, you do it. 

Yea dude with shai being a worthy member of a big 3 on a title team and us being this close to 4 prospects of a similar caliber to that and having unlimited trade ammo I’m going to be pissed if we don’t move up.

 

I saw we were one of the teams interested in Sexton so idk what that’s about a 3 team deal for Cleveland’s pick or what. I also saw a rumor from a credible OKC source that we might do a deal with Detroit involving a record number of picks to move up to 1 but I can’t imagine Detroit trades out of the top 4 so that would have to be 3 team as well.

 

[NYRaider]

6 hours ago, Sllim Pickens said:

I do.  If they switch spots I think the results are very similar. 

So you believe that Sexton is a better scorer than Carmelo Anthony, Steph Curry, Kevin Durant, etc? Because Beal's output has been better than any two year stretch of their careers. If so I'm not sure why Cleveland hasn't signed him to a super max yet, he's one of the greatest scorers in the history of the sport. 

[NYRaider]

 

6 hours ago, Sllim Pickens said:

Beal was the second worst defender in the NBA last year behind only Darius Garland.  He was bottom 15 this year.  Collin Sexton was bad as a rookie and gotten better since, even though he is next to another one of the leagues worst defenders on the perimeter.   Neither are great defenders, which is why I don't understand why one is so valued, while the other is trash.  Neither pass well, neither defend well, neither rebound well, but both shoot with nearly identical efficiency, although one plays with one of the better passing PGs in the league while the other plays with a decent second year guy so he gets less looks. 

Beal's defensive efficiency only dropped off when he was asked to carry a 30+ ppg scoring load, something only a handful of other players in league history have been able to do. Beal doesn't pass well? He averaged 5.5 assists and 6.1 assists the previous two seasons before they acquired Westbrook who is one of the most ball dominant players in the league. Beal has scored at the same level while defending better than Sexton on playoff teams...

Also based on your logic: 

Middleton averaged 20.4 ppg on 47% FG, 41% 3FG, 90% FT

Porzingis averaged 20.1 ppg on 47% FG, 38% 3FG, 85% FT

CJ McCollum averaged 23.1 ppg on 46% FG, 39% 3FG, 81% FT

Julius Randle averaged 24.1 ppg on 46% FG, 41% 3FG, 81% FT

All four of those players could easily be 30+ ppg scorers and should be valued at the same level as Beal because they scored on similar efficiency numbers. They just didn't shoot as much, so they should all be worth max contracts, and are all some of the greatest scorers we've ever seen they're just held back by lesser opportunities? 

You do realize that as a players attempts go up, efficiency usually tends to decrease, right?

 

[NYRaider]

6 hours ago, Sllim Pickens said:

Westbrook has been to the playoffs every year except 1 of the last 11 years.  So them creeping into the playoffs with Beal and Westbrook isn't a shining endorsement on Beal. 

You're giving Westbrook credit for Beal's scoring numbers? His scoring numbers were basically identical the year before playing with a 30 year old Isaiah Thomas and a 31 year old Ish Smith...

[NYRaider]

@Sllim Pickens @H2ThaIzzo whoever Cleveland's coach, GM, and owner are should be axed immediately for not sprinting to give Sexton a max deal. He's a guy that can increase his usage by 33% while maintaining the same efficiency and capable of being one of only a dozen players in modern NBA history to be a 30+ ppg guy? Why are they holding back such an elite superstar? 

[NYRaider]

Christian Wood averaged 21.0 ppg on 51% FG, 38% 3FG, 78% FT. He needs to be taking 10 more shots per game and he will be one of the elite players in the league.

[H2ThaIzzo]

Just now, NYRaider said:

@Sllim Pickens @H2ThaIzzo whoever Cleveland's coach, GM, and owner are should be axed immediately for not sprinting to give Sexton a max deal. He's a guy that can increase his usage by 33% while maintaining the same efficiency and capable of being one of only a dozen players in modern NBA history to be a 30+ ppg guy? Why are they holding back such an elite superstar? 

I'm not sure why you're getting sarcastic and upset with us about him. You claim he isnt good, yet multiple teams want him. We have no "leverage" because he is going to be a RFA and we don't want to pay him, but you've said before that other teams probably will. Speaking for myself, I've essentially said I'm not trading him unless its a worthwhile package, and Obi, Knox, and two mid/late 1st rounders isn't doing it for me. Our team is in Cleveland, and we no longer have LeBron James. having cap space in a market like ours in this day in age for the NBA means nothing. We aren't going to be in the running for any superstar caliber FA ever, and most of the veterans who will command more than the MLE are going to sign with a bigger market or for a team with star players anyways. So essentially, to make sure I understand, its okay for Collin to play anywhere else but Cleveland, and Cleveland should take practically any deal because even though they hold his rights, and can match any offer, you've heard from somewhere that they don't want to pay him. And I'm fully convinced that, when in two years, after we trade him and he goes off and kills it with a contender, that you won't be the first guy in here saying "man, Cleveland was dumb to give up on him so early". 

[NYRaider]

1 minute ago, H2ThaIzzo said:

I'm not sure why you're getting sarcastic and upset with us about him. You claim he isnt good, yet multiple teams want him. We have no "leverage" because he is going to be a RFA and we don't want to pay him, but you've said before that other teams probably will. Speaking for myself, I've essentially said I'm not trading him unless its a worthwhile package, and Obi, Knox, and two mid/late 1st rounders isn't doing it for me. Our team is in Cleveland, and we no longer have LeBron James. having cap space in a market like ours in this day in age for the NBA means nothing. We aren't going to be in the running for any superstar caliber FA ever, and most of the veterans who will command more than the MLE are going to sign with a bigger market or for a team with star players anyways. So essentially, to make sure I understand, its okay for Collin to play anywhere else but Cleveland, and Cleveland should take practically any deal because even though they hold his rights, and can match any offer, you've heard from somewhere that they don't want to pay him. And I'm fully convinced that, when in two years, after we trade him and he goes off and kills it with a contender, that you won't be the first guy in here saying "man, Cleveland was dumb to give up on him so early". 

Quote

I asked one executive from an opposing team if the Cavs could get the Sixers’ Ben Simmons for a package of Love and Sexton. While the money matches, the response was “no chance; Philly can do better” despite Simmons’ deflated value. Teams around the league are well aware of Sexton’s contract situation, which will hurt his value in trade talks. One source believed the Cavs should’ve traded Sexton last summer, knowing this was coming and didn’t believe the Cavs will get a pick in the top half of the draft for him because of the contract. The Cavs may not find a match and still bring Sexton back for next season, but it won’t be for a lack of trying

Quote

 

Cleveland doesn’t want to put the weight of being “the guy” on Sexton’s shoulders; the franchise believes that would be an unfair ask. Everybody in the building sees the work he puts in, and the desire he has to win, to the point that Sexton hasn’t watched any of the playoffs thus far. “He’s been a pillar of our culture in terms of what he’s been able to do here in a really difficult situation for him, personally — how he came in and where we were, and he’s just gotten better every single year,” the source said. “He’s a tireless worker and a huge part of our culture, so we want him here long-term.”

 

 

 

[NYRaider]

2 minutes ago, H2ThaIzzo said:

And I'm fully convinced that, when in two years, after we trade him and he goes off and kills it with a contender, that you won't be the first guy in here saying "man, Cleveland was dumb to give up on him so early". 

Just like Andrew Wiggins has killed it with a contender in GS, huh?

[NYRaider]

Crazy that Cleveland doesn't want to put the weight of being "the guy" on Sexton's shoulders when he's capable of scoring at a similar rate to Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant.