2021 NBA Draft Thread

[beekay414]

Why are we talking about Bradley Beal and Collin Sexton in a draft thread?

[NYRaider]

1 minute ago, Sllim Pickens said:

I also said Beal is the better player, but in building a team, if neither will carry you, which Beal has shown he can't, I dont want that guy eating up 40M.  1 playoff series win in his career and he had a team around him.  Same with Mitchell, he may be scoring but they had two candidates for 6th man of the year, the DPOY, and a great PG running the show.  Don't act like Mitchell would lead the team in Cleveland to the second round of the playoffs.  

And Trae isn't a great comparison because like you said he does so much more in running the team.  Beal has similar rebounding/assist/turnover numbers as Sexton, he just hasn't done it long enough to get the same type of hype. 

Also, regarding your comment about defense while scoring 30 a game, Steph, Harden, Iverson, Kobe and MJ all had positive DBPM while scoring 30.  They all stayed consistent in their defense while Beal has got significantly worse. 

Yeah so as I said if you're a rebuilding team with young talent, I could understand an argument for Sexton. But if you're a team that's looking for the piece that can help you get over the top then Beal is the more valuable commodity by a long shot. For a team like Philadelphia for example, if they could acquire Beal in a package built around Simmons, he could be the piece that gets them over the top. 

And again, AD wasn't able to make the playoffs in 5/7 seasons in New Orleans despite playing at an elite level. Would you have chosen to trade for KAT two years ago over AD if you were the Lakers? He was putting up similar production, was younger, and on a cheaper contract. Since neither guy had contributed to winning, then it should've been a no brainer to go after KAT instead. 

[NYRaider]

3 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said:

My point is Beal is Lou Williams with starter minutes.  Its also why I said I would rather have a discounted Sexton to Beal when you get the same output in wins. 

Beal is one of the only players to ever score 30+ in consecutive seasons, lol. If anything Sexton is Lou Williams with starters minutes. NBA teams have literally said they view Sexton as more of a Lou Williams type of player then a star. 

[NYRaider]

3 minutes ago, beekay414 said:

Why are we talking about Bradley Beal and Collin Sexton in a draft thread?

Because the Cavaliers draft decision will likely be heavily influenced on if they plan to trade one of Sexton/Allen. And posters on here think that Sexton is a better trade piece than Brad Beal. 

[Sllim Pickens]

1 minute ago, NYRaider said:

Yeah so as I said if you're a rebuilding team with young talent, I could understand an argument for Sexton. But if you're a team that's looking for the piece that can help you get over the top then Beal is the more valuable commodity by a long shot. For a team like Philadelphia for example, if they could acquire Beal in a package built around Simmons, he could be the piece that gets them over the top. 

And again, AD wasn't able to make the playoffs in 5/7 seasons in New Orleans despite playing at an elite level. Would you have chosen to trade for KAT two years ago over AD if you were the Lakers? He was putting up similar production, was younger, and on a cheaper contract. Since neither guy had contributed to winning, then it should've been a no brainer to go after KAT instead. 

I think if Beal goes to Philly, their defense falls off a cliff and they aren't as good as they are now.  I think they could swing a deal for Sexton, keep Ben and be significantly better.  

I also think that if KAT played with LBJ in LA last year, they would have won a championship.  KAT actually probably fits better with LBJ as he ages and would be great.  He obviously is not the defensive player AD is but he has also been healthier.  AD is the better player, but I probably would have chosen KAT at the time given the same circumstances. 

[Sllim Pickens]

1 minute ago, NYRaider said:

Because the Cavaliers draft decision will likely be heavily influenced on if they plan to trade one of Sexton/Allen. And posters on here think that Sexton is a better trade piece than Brad Beal. 

Nobody said better, but you say Sexton has no value because he doesnt win games but then say Beal is an All Star and should cost a lot but he also doesnt win games. 

[OkeyDoke21]

4 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said:

My point is Beal is Lou Williams with starter minutes.  Its also why I said I would rather have a discounted Sexton to Beal when you get the same output in wins. 

Wtf?  You are really low on Beal.  He isn't carrying you to a championship, if that's what you mean by wins, but he does win.  They aren't giving you the same output in wins.  I get the value angle.  Don't agree, but I understand, but you're going a little overboard to push your side saying he and Sexton give you the same amount of wins, or he's just Lou Will with starter minutes.  Prime Williams pretty much plays starter minutes.

[NYRaider]

Just now, Sllim Pickens said:

I think if Beal goes to Philly, their defense falls off a cliff and they aren't as good as they are now.  I think they could swing a deal for Sexton, keep Ben and be significantly better.  

I also think that if KAT played with LBJ in LA last year, they would have won a championship.  KAT actually probably fits better with LBJ as he ages and would be great.  He obviously is not the defensive player AD is but he has also been healthier.  AD is the better player, but I probably would have chosen KAT at the time given the same circumstances. 

But as we've already seen with Beal in the past when he wasn't asked to carry such a huge scoring load he wasn't a terrible defender. He wouldn't have to score 30+ in Philly playing with Harris/Embiid. And if they kept Thybulle and were able to acquire a PG like Lowry, I doubt Beal would be the reason their defense falls off of a cliff. How would adding a worse scoring, worse defending, small guard help them be significantly better when the issues with Ben will still be there.

And KAT isn't a good defender,  AD is a DPOY level defender, lol. 

You are probably the only person on earth that'd take Sexton over Beal and KAT over AD.  

[Sllim Pickens]

Just now, OkeyDoke21 said:

Wtf?  You are really low on Beal.  He isn't carrying you to a championship, if that's what you mean by wins, but he does win.  They aren't giving you the same output in wins.  I get the value angle.  Don't agree, but I understand, but you're going a little overboard to push your side saying he and Sexton give you the same amount of wins, or he's just Lou Will with starter minutes.  Prime Williams pretty much plays starter minutes.

If Sexton played with Mr Triple Double last year, they would have had similar records.  The rest of the Washington team is better than the rest of the Cavs.  You can't simply go off record but Beal has consistently played with better teammates and still done nothing but crawl into the playoffs as a bottom 2 seed.  Thats the difference of about 6 wins a year.  I am lower on Beal because his numbers don't support the love he gets.  When trashing other players for defense, they say ignore it for Beal.  If Beal goes to Philly, he gets less shots and is back to the 24PPG player playing bad defense that Sexton is.  If he gets traded to the Clippers the same thing.  if he was on a championship caliber team, he wouldn't get the number of looks he does now and his numbers would decrease.  The 30ppg is the only thing hyping him but if he doesnt have that, he is just Lou Williams with more minutes. 

[H2ThaIzzo]

12 minutes ago, brownie man said:

Sexton is neither Bradley Beal or Donovan Mitchell 

I’m a Cavs fans Cleveland born and raised and I’ll let you aint a damn stat on the planet that will make him comparable to either player

 

He’s Lou Williams with starter minutes padding stats on a ****ty team. That’s it. I’m telling you. He doesn’t create for others and he’s a liability defensively. 
 

if we were actually good he wouldn’t have stats like this which people don’t understand, But we’re not good so he gets hella minutes and pads his stats as we lose. 
 

he should be a sixth man. Or a starting PG on a team who was a creator at a different position. 
 

Im telling you that you can deny it as much as you want but that’s Collin Sexton and the team that accepts his skill set will be better off for it

don't just be stats guys. actually watch the games 

I watch the games, and he is far and away a better player than Lou Williams. More efficient, better shooter, better passer. The whole crap about Collin not creating for others is a facade. Dude got one season to run the point before they drafted Garland the season after who shifted to PG and Sexton shifted to 2. He passes the ball more than Booker, nearly the same as Mitchell, the difference is that his team right now is full of players that can't shoot, and those guys are on teams that can. 

[NYRaider]

5 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said:

Nobody said better, but you say Sexton has no value because he doesnt win games but then say Beal is an All Star and should cost a lot but he also doesnt win games. 

No I didn't, I said Sexton's value is diminished because he's due for a max contract extension. Hard to want to give him a big deal when we've only seen him score on bad teams while being one of the 5 worst defenders in the league. We've seen Beal be productive on playoff teams while defending at an okay level. We've also seen Beal carry an offensive load like very few players in NBA history have been able too. 

Beal has put up pretty much identical numbers to what Sexton did this year twice, while defending better, for playoff teams. Washington is one of the worst teams in the league and Beal has still carried a crazy, historic offensive load on good efficiency. 

He's obviously not suited to be the #1 option on a championship caliber team. But like AD he's a guy that could go to a team with an established star in a lesser role and immediately put them into championship contention. 

[Sllim Pickens]

2 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

But as we've already seen with Beal in the past when he wasn't asked to carry such a huge scoring load he wasn't a terrible defender. He wouldn't have to score 30+ in Philly playing with Harris/Embiid. And if they kept Thybulle and were able to acquire a PG like Lowry, I doubt Beal would be the reason their defense falls off of a cliff. How would adding a worse scoring, worse defending, small guard help them be significantly better when the issues with Ben will still be there.

And KAT isn't a good defender,  AD is a DPOY level defender, lol. 

You are probably the only person on earth that'd take Sexton over Beal and KAT over AD.  

Well, its would I rather have KAT and XXX with the savings or Sexton and Ben opposed to just Beal?  Ben is still the best defensive wing in the league and can cover 1-5.  Losing him will hurt significantly.  They need additional scoring, adding Sexton to that group would be dirty as he wouldn't need to do much defensively.  Its fair that KAT isn't that much cheaper than AD so I probably wouldn't take him but if it was enough for another 12M player, then yeah, I'd take KAT and someone else to AD to play alongside Lebron. 

 

[Sllim Pickens]

1 minute ago, NYRaider said:

No I didn't, I said Sexton's value is diminished because he's due for a max contract extension. Hard to want to give him a big deal when we've only seen him score on bad teams while being one of the 5 worst defenders in the league. We've seen Beal be productive on playoff teams while defending at an okay level. We've also seen Beal carry an offensive load like very few players in NBA history have been able too. 

Beal has put up pretty much identical numbers to what Sexton did this year twice, while defending better, for playoff teams. Washington is one of the worst teams in the league and Beal has still carried a crazy, historic offensive load on good efficiency. 

He's obviously not suited to be the #1 option on a championship caliber team. But like AD he's a guy that could go to a team with an established star in a lesser role and immediately put them into championship contention. 

The last two years, Sexton has been better than Beal on defense though.......

[NYRaider]

3 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said:

If Beal goes to Philly, he gets less shots and is back to the 24PPG player playing bad defense that Sexton is.  

Except he averaged 24 ppg for 2 playoff teams with a -1.0 and -0.7 DBPM in the past. Sexton has legitimately been one of the 5 worst defensive players in the league for 3 consecutive years. 

[brownie man]

Just now, H2ThaIzzo said:

I watch the games, and he is far and away a better player than Lou Williams. More efficient, better shooter, better passer. The whole crap about Collin not creating for others is a facade. Dude got one season to run the point before they drafted Garland the season after who shifted to PG and Sexton shifted to 2. He passes the ball more than Booker, nearly the same as Mitchell, the difference is that his team right now is full of players that can't shoot, and those guys are on teams that can. 

Let’s put it this way 

We’re not trading Garland

for us 

Sexton is a bad fit as a starter.
 

Him Garland and Okoro just don’t make sense starting together. Even adding Mobley you’d lack perimeter scoring with that lineup unless you get rid of Allen who has probably been Kobys best move to this point. 
 

Collin needs to be the best 6th man in the league or he can start on the right team. But you’ve got to have a really unique lineup to be able to mask his defensive liabilities