catcheryea Posted July 16, 2021 Share Posted July 16, 2021 6 minutes ago, NYRaider said: If I was Detroit, I'd definitely take #2 and #13 for #1. Take Jalen Green #2 and target someone like Ziarie Williams, Josh Giddey, Kai Jones, or Jalen Johnson at #13. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted July 16, 2021 Author Share Posted July 16, 2021 1 minute ago, catcheryea said: Jalen Green will be a better pro than Cade Cunningham. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sllim Pickens Posted July 16, 2021 Share Posted July 16, 2021 7 hours ago, NYRaider said: I would think @Sllim Pickens of all people would understand how bad players putting up big numbers on terrible teams isn't a true reflection of their abilities. As Jerami Grant was a 9.2 ppg guy in his first 6 seasons and averaged 22 ppg when he finally got to play on one of the worst teams in the league. I am well aware that Jerami Grant still doesn't hold a ton of trade value because although he is the best player on the Pistons, he is likely the 4th/5th best player on a championship team. The only thing that gives him value is he signed for a relatively cheap deal for his production. I completely understand that empty stats mean nothing in value, unless your name is Bradley Beal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sllim Pickens Posted July 16, 2021 Share Posted July 16, 2021 7 hours ago, NYRaider said: I like Sexton, he's not worth a max contract. As multiple sources have said, other teams view him more as a Lou Williams type of player than a true franchise changing talent. Primarily because he's not a good enough playmaker to be a primary ball handler and is terrible defensively. Cleveland was interested in a Sexton/Love for Simmons swap and they hung up the phone, they said they're seeking an All-Star caliber player back. And they probably felt pretty good at the time considering Beal made a huge leap the following year and the Wizards took the Celtics to 7 games in the second round of the playoffs. Beal dropped 38 in that game 7 and they were a few plays away from making the ECF. Washington was also in a much different position because they had John Wall who paired very well with Beal as one of the biggest, most athletic, PG's in NBA history. Before Wall's career was derailed by injuries he was an All-NBA player and Wall/Beal looked primed to become one of the best backcourts in the league. As I said earlier the last year with healthy Wall/Beal they were a game away from the ECF and were one of the best offensive teams in the league. The Cavaliers with Sexton/Garland won 19 games last year with the 25th best offense in the league and won 22 games this year with the 28th best offense in the league. ETA: Going into 2017-2018 the media ranked Wall/Beal as the 3rd best backcourt in the league. Going into this season Garland/Sexton were ranked 30th, lol. So you mean going into Beal's 6th season and Walls 7th? Where we they ranked before that? Its year 2 and 3 for Sexton and Garland. Neither have John Wall peak ability and upside but Wall was a pretty rare talent. Having a player like Wall or Beal next to you that can get to the rim is important for guys like Beal/Sexton. Sexton has unfortunately been the most talented player on his team since he came into the league. Thats not a bash on him, its critically looking at his team around him. Beal has always had better players around him and when he didn't have Wall at all last year he won 25 games as the best player on the team. Then they add Westbrook and he wins 33. The two half years of Wall they finished as an 8 seed. Like I said, Beal is just Lou Williams too with a couple more shots a game than Sexton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OkeyDoke21 Posted July 16, 2021 Share Posted July 16, 2021 (edited) 16 hours ago, Sllim Pickens said: If Sexton played with Mr Triple Double last year, they would have had similar records. The rest of the Washington team is better than the rest of the Cavs. You can't simply go off record but Beal has consistently played with better teammates and still done nothing but crawl into the playoffs as a bottom 2 seed. Thats the difference of about 6 wins a year. I am lower on Beal because his numbers don't support the love he gets. When trashing other players for defense, they say ignore it for Beal. If Beal goes to Philly, he gets less shots and is back to the 24PPG player playing bad defense that Sexton is. If he gets traded to the Clippers the same thing. if he was on a championship caliber team, he wouldn't get the number of looks he does now and his numbers would decrease. The 30ppg is the only thing hyping him but if he doesnt have that, he is just Lou Williams with more minutes. Yeah, you're right. The difference between Lou Williams and Bradley Beal is 3 mpg. That's the only thing that separates them as players. You're also missing the part where Beal would be a 24 ppg scorer on a top tier team in either conference, and Sexton is scoring 24 ppg on a terrible team still, in that scenario. Edited July 16, 2021 by OkeyDoke21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sllim Pickens Posted July 16, 2021 Share Posted July 16, 2021 6 hours ago, NYRaider said: If I was Detroit, I'd definitely take #2 and #13 for #1. Take Jalen Green #2 and target someone like Ziarie Williams, Josh Giddey, Kai Jones, or Jalen Johnson at #13. I wouldn't be opposed to this but would prefer a future pick. This is probably more likely though. I think I would lean Zaire at this point with 13. Adding another long wing/small ball 4 to the mix would be solid. Kai Jones scares me with his complete lack of production in two years. He seems like a big boom or bust pick. I'd still much rather have a future pick. Give Sekou one last chance with some talent around him to develop given he is still super young and see if we move Grant next year. We have a lot of bodies right now and adding 13 likely won't help a ton this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sllim Pickens Posted July 16, 2021 Share Posted July 16, 2021 2 minutes ago, OkeyDoke21 said: Yeah, you're right. The difference between Lou Williams and Bradley Beal is 3 mpg. That's the only thing that separates them as players. Well, and Lou is a better passer and better defender. But if he took 24 shots a game on a bad team, he would have averaged 30 in his prime. But he was on good teams so had to settle for 16 shots and 23 points a game, just like Beal will if on a good team and not the focal point of the offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigC421/ Posted July 16, 2021 Share Posted July 16, 2021 9 hours ago, NYRaider said: If I was Detroit, I'd definitely take #2 and #13 for #1. Take Jalen Green #2 and target someone like Ziarie Williams, Josh Giddey, Kai Jones, or Jalen Johnson at #13. I’d probably break my tv. There’s a large drop off between Cunningham and everyone else in this draft. Not a knock on anyone else he’s just that much better. This is all just pre draft hyperbole. Cade’s been the unquestioned top player in this class for several years now and everyone just doing the usual make an argument against/ pick another guy to try to sound deep. No one’s arguing the Rockets shouldn’t be trying to trade up, they just don’t want the next superstar playing in Detroit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texansfan713 Posted July 16, 2021 Share Posted July 16, 2021 Whoever in the organization lobbying for Suggs need to be fired ASAP! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted July 16, 2021 Author Share Posted July 16, 2021 On Chad Ford's most recent podcast he gave some interesting points on the case against Cade going #1. Some of the key points: • Against every guard/wing drafted in the top 3 dating back to 2003, Cade didn't show well against any of them and the only one he was comparable too was OJ Mayo. • The most optimistic comparison for Cade in terms of his analytical profile is Jayson Tatum. • Cade significantly over performed as a shooter in college in comparison to his HS shooting %'s. • Said that when he watched him play he thought he had a limited basketball IQ. • Had the lowest offensive rebounding % of any wing drafted in the top 3 since 2003. • Viewed as a PG and elite passer but only averaged 3.5 assists/4.0 TO • Said you could realistically put Cade at #6 and it wouldn't be a stretch. • Ranked in the 42nd percentile in transition offense, which is typically a really strong indicator for athleticism. • Said Cade is just a decent athlete but not a great athlete so he will have to rely on tough jumpers to score consistently. • Said you have to question how good of a creator he really is because he wasn't very efficient at Oklahoma State. • Said he's not an explosive athlete and doesn't create many good shots and has trouble blowing past guys. • 31% of his shot attempts were 2P jumpers and he only shot 35% on those attempts. • His lack of elite athleticism, especially laterally raises concerns about his ability to defend quicker perimeter players and also contributed to his struggles at time to finish at the rim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted July 16, 2021 Author Share Posted July 16, 2021 3 hours ago, Sllim Pickens said: Well, and Lou is a better passer and better defender. But if he took 24 shots a game on a bad team, he would have averaged 30 in his prime. But he was on good teams so had to settle for 16 shots and 23 points a game, just like Beal will if on a good team and not the focal point of the offense. The best year of Lou Will's career he averaged 22.6 ppg on 42% FG and was a -1.8 DBPM. When Beal was with peak Wall for 2 seasons he averaged 23.1 ppg on 48% FG and 22.6 ppg on 46% FG while being a -1.0 DBPM and -0.7 DBPM. Your hate for Beal is weird, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted July 16, 2021 Author Share Posted July 16, 2021 1 hour ago, BigC421/ said: I’d probably break my tv. There’s a large drop off between Cunningham and everyone else in this draft. Not a knock on anyone else he’s just that much better. This is all just pre draft hyperbole. Cade’s been the unquestioned top player in this class for several years now and everyone just doing the usual make an argument against/ pick another guy to try to sound deep. No one’s arguing the Rockets shouldn’t be trying to trade up, they just don’t want the next superstar playing in Detroit. Cade just really lacks a degree of explosiveness that most other top picks have, he was struggling to blow past guys consistently in the Big 12. And for being a "PG" he averaged more TO than assists. I mean @Sllim Pickens has just dragged Beal through the mud for averaging 30 ppg on 48% FG for a team that didn't win. But Cade averaged 20 ppg on 43% FG against Big 12 competition and that's going to be their franchise player. He's the 6'8" Lou Will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beekay414 Posted July 16, 2021 Share Posted July 16, 2021 Chad Ford is one of the last people I listen to IRT the draft process. There's a reason he's an independent analyst now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catcheryea Posted July 16, 2021 Share Posted July 16, 2021 3 minutes ago, beekay414 said: Chad Ford is one of the last people I listen to IRT the draft process. There's a reason he's an independent analyst now... chad ford, changes his big board years after the draft to make himself look smarter but doesn't realize the wayback machine exists, chad ford? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beekay414 Posted July 16, 2021 Share Posted July 16, 2021 1 minute ago, catcheryea said: chad ford, changes his big board years after the draft to make himself look smarter but doesn't realize the wayback machine exists, chad ford? That's the one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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