Texansfan713 Posted July 3, 2021 Share Posted July 3, 2021 the gm that would take kuminga over mobley should be fired on the spot. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supersuavesky Posted July 4, 2021 Share Posted July 4, 2021 8 hours ago, DirtyDez said: Is there any chance Green actually goes before Cunningham or Kuminga before Mobley? Probably not. If they like Green that much they might look to make a trade with 3 or so. And Mobley is for sure going over Kuminga. Especially with the way Ayton has played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted July 4, 2021 Author Share Posted July 4, 2021 6 hours ago, Texansfan713 said: the gm that would take kuminga over mobley should be fired on the spot. Meh. I like Mobley as a prospect but realistically what's his upside? I've seen a lot of Chris Bosh comparisons for him, which I think are fair. He still has a lot to work on though, particularly with his frame and offensive game. He has an extremely slight frame and isn't a great shooter at this point. His upside is a better rim protecting Bosh, which is good, not great. Kuminga's upside is Kawhi Leonard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted July 4, 2021 Author Share Posted July 4, 2021 9 hours ago, Supersuavesky said: And Mobley is for sure going over Kuminga. Especially with the way Ayton has played. True. Whoever drafts him just has to pray if they make the playoffs their 1st round opponent will be without their All-NBA big, their second opponent will be without their best wing, and their third opponent will be without their HOF top 2 player in the world. Ayton has played well this year, averaging 14 points and 10 rebounds. But Phoenix was one of the worst teams in the league until they added one of the greatest point guards in the history of the sport, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted July 4, 2021 Author Share Posted July 4, 2021 (edited) 18 hours ago, Texansfan713 said: the gm that would take kuminga over mobley should be fired on the spot. 11 hours ago, Supersuavesky said: Probably not. If they like Green that much they might look to make a trade with 3 or so. And Mobley is for sure going over Kuminga. Especially with the way Ayton has played. To further this point, Ayton averaged 16/10 on a 19-63 team and 18/11 on 1 33-39 team. This year on a 51-21 team he averaged 14/10. So what changed? Oh yeah they added a first ballot HOF PG to their roster that completely transformed their team and the way that they play. The Suns also benefited from playing against the Lakers while Anthony Davis was hurt, the Nuggets while Murray was hurt, and the Clippers while Kawhi as well as both of their rotational centers were hurt. The league is a guard/wing driven league and we've seen it repeatedly with teams that have invested early picks into big men. 2020: James Wiseman (#2) over LaMelo Ball There's still a lot to be said and things can change but Ball went on his way to ROY and the Warriors literally were much better on both ends and started winning games once Wiseman got hurt. There's also a reason that they're already shopping him. 2018: DeAndre Ayton (#1)/Marvin Bagley (#2) over Luka Doncic/Trae Young | Jaren Jackson Jr (#4) over Trae Young | Mo Bamba (#6)/Wendell Carter (#7) over Collin Sexton/Mikal Bridges/Shai Gilgeous-Alexander The media criticized the Suns taking Ayton #1 overall over Luka and Trae for the last couple of years. Ayton has certainly been a big piece in them turning it around but he's not the main or key reason they went from bottom feeder to in the finals. The development of Bridges/Booker as well as a hall of fame, and arguably one of the greatest point guards in the history of the sport, did. Edited July 4, 2021 by NYRaider Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted July 4, 2021 Author Share Posted July 4, 2021 (edited) 13 hours ago, Supersuavesky said: Probably not. If they like Green that much they might look to make a trade with 3 or so. And Mobley is for sure going over Kuminga. Especially with the way Ayton has played. 20 hours ago, Texansfan713 said: the gm that would take kuminga over mobley should be fired on the spot. Just to add too bigs early in the draft, are bad value picks. Since 2015 there have been 19 big men selected in the top 10. Those 19 players have a combined 0 rings and 3 All-Star appearance. (KAT x2, KP x1) 8 of those players have never been on a playoff team and 7 of them have been on playoff teams in a reserve/endof the bench role (WCS w/ Luka | Kaminsky w/Hornets & Suns | Poeltl w/Spurs | Collins w/Blazers | Okongwu w/Hawks | Smith w/Suns | Maker w/Bucks). The only 4 that have been starters or played key roles on playoff teams are Porzingis in Dallas, who has been eliminated in the 1st round the last two years. Karl Anthony-Towns who has made it once with Jimmy Butler but got eliminated first round. Jaren Jackson Jr who has made it once with Ja Morant in Memphis but was eliminated 1st round. And DeAndre Ayton who was on one of the worst teams in the league his first two years that was transformed by the development of his teammate Devin Booker as well as the addition of one of the greatest point guards to ever play the game. When you look at the best "traditional" big men who were taken at the top of the draft the only two that have really had success are Joel Embiid and Anthony Davis. Embiid hasn't been able to get to the conference finals in 5 years with the 76ers. And Anthony Davis won 1 playoff series in 7 years with New Orleans before he came to LA. So sure if you're a team with one of the best young wings in the league who's numbers mimic a young Kobe Bryant and also happen to have a first ballot HOF PG, a big early in the draft makes a ton of sense. Edited July 4, 2021 by NYRaider Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beekay414 Posted July 4, 2021 Share Posted July 4, 2021 I feel like you're putting way too much effort in devaluing bigs. Simply put, you're not going to win a title without having a legitimate big man or two on your team. The Bucks aren't here without Lopez and the Suns aren't here without Ayton. Bigs matter, especially really good ones. Ask the Suns if they regret taking Ayton and I'll guarantee you they say no. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted July 4, 2021 Author Share Posted July 4, 2021 The starting centers for the last 10 NBA champions: • Dwight Howard (34 years old) • Marc Gasol (35 years old) • JaVale McGee (30 years old) • ZaZa Pachulia (32 years old) • Tristian Thompson (24 years old) • Draymond Green (24 years old) • Tiago Splitter (29 years old) • Chris Bosh (28 years old) • Chris Bosh (27 years old) • Tyson Chandler (28 years old) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted July 4, 2021 Author Share Posted July 4, 2021 2 minutes ago, beekay414 said: I feel like you're putting way too much effort in devaluing bigs. Simply put, you're not going to win a title without having a legitimate big man or two on your team. The Bucks aren't here without Lopez and the Suns aren't here without Ayton. Bigs matter, especially really good ones. Ask the Suns if they regret taking Ayton and I'll guarantee you they say no. See my post above, the only team that has won a title in the last decade with a center as one of their best players/main 3 options offensively is Miami, who also happened to have LeBron James and Dwayne Wade. Ayton is very good but the Suns with Ayton/Booker before CP3 weren't even a playoff team. Ayton himself said that the best thing that has ever happened to his career was Chris Paul, lol. Bigs do matter but to say that Mobley's stock should be boosted because of the way that Ayton has played is a stretch. I mean just look at Anthony Davis, Chris Bosh, or Joel Embiid. All three of those guys were early picks, extremely skilled, and All-NBA level centers. Embiid hasn't even been able to get to the ECF in 6 years with the 76ers, Davis won 1 playoff series in New Orleans, and Bosh didn't even win a playoff series in Toronto. Davis and Bosh only won rings after they left to go play with LeBron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted July 4, 2021 Author Share Posted July 4, 2021 9 minutes ago, beekay414 said: I feel like you're putting way too much effort in devaluing bigs. Simply put, you're not going to win a title without having a legitimate big man or two on your team. The Bucks aren't here without Lopez and the Suns aren't here without Ayton. That's true. But essentially every title team is built around a big scoring wing. And the teams that have built around bigs without one always come up short in the playoffs. Not to throw shade at the Suns because you can only beat who's in front of you. But they definitely were fortunate that they played the Lakers with a hurt AD, the Nuggets without Murray, and the Clippers without Kawhi/Ibaka and an injured Zubac. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted July 4, 2021 Author Share Posted July 4, 2021 12 minutes ago, beekay414 said: Ask the Suns if they regret taking Ayton and I'll guarantee you they say no. If they get a title this season, I'm sure they won't regret it at all. If they don't and then give CP3 that huge extension, let's revisit that question a couple of years from now and I think they may have a different opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seminoles1 Posted July 4, 2021 Share Posted July 4, 2021 15 minutes ago, beekay414 said: Ask the Suns if they regret taking Ayton and I'll guarantee you they say no. I guess you don't regret any decisions if it led to you winning a title. But that kind of thinking would have them defending Jalen Smith over Haliburton, Josh Jackson over Fox and Isaac, etc. Phoenix might publicly defend picking Ayton, but they'd take Luka in a re-draft without a second thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beekay414 Posted July 4, 2021 Share Posted July 4, 2021 Nowhere did I say you need to build around them as your #1 but blindly using trends to defend a lesser player vs a better one in the draft process is exactly how you get fired before the pick even matters. Kuminga is a massive wildcard. You can say his ceiling is Kawhi all you want but his floor is also brutally low. There's no way in hell I'm taking him over Mobley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beekay414 Posted July 4, 2021 Share Posted July 4, 2021 Green, I can live with because he'll shoot well enough to hit his ceiling. Kuminga isn't a natural shooter and is raw as hell. Mobley is the ideal C for the modern game too. There's just no way, in any GM's right mind, that you'd risk your career on Kuminga over Mobley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted July 4, 2021 Author Share Posted July 4, 2021 6 minutes ago, beekay414 said: Nowhere did I say you need to build around them as your #1 but blindly using trends to defend a lesser player vs a better one in the draft process is exactly how you get fired before the pick even matters. My point was that Ayton's play shouldn't boost Mobley's draft stock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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