2020 GDT Week #13 Steelers vs.Football Team

[VigilantZombie]

7 hours ago, August4th said:

did JW get a target after his TD?

Not that I'm aware of, no.

[warfelg]

Ok so a few next morning thoughts now that some time has passed:

• The game plan worked at the start, and suddenly they went away from things that were working.  I'll never understand why the offense does that so much.
• Diontae 12 targets; Ebron 11 targets; Juju 10 targets; Claypool 4 targets; Washington 4 targets.  For such a "deep" wr group we certainly have no freaking clue how to use it.
• 71 plays, 62 in the shotgun.  I know there's been commentary of Ben not liking being under center but we got to tell him 'tough crap' and get under there.
• The mess of non-calls and clock screw ups to end the half and start the next one really piss me off.  I'm normally critical of refs but this year has been far worse than any other.
• Us off 4 days rest vs a team off 11.  And it looked it in terms of on field speed.  They looked fresh and running moving around.  We looked very sluggish.
• I'll still contest that part of the batted ball issue is the OL.  They sit in pass pro.  That tipped pass at the end of the game (and two others) by Sweat, he was untouched by Okorafor.  Under Munchak that was a strength to see a DL go up and undercut them to take them down.  That's not a priority right now despite passing faster and it's been a season long problem.
• I couldn't give two flying craps about Tomlin's post game press availability.  15 years in and if you don't realize he's not going to throw guys under the bus.  He's not going to say anything bad about other coaches.  Not going to say anything bad about players.  
• Honestly the game plan looked the exact same from Ravens game to Football Team, including the snap distribution.  Yes that is part of the short week issue, but IMO part of the issue is that there seems to be a push from Ben/Fichtner to push Diontae.  I think because he was the "AB replacement" they are trying extra hard to not doghouse him.

[3rivers]

19 minutes ago, warfelg said:

the issue is that there seems to be a push from Ben/Fichtner to push Diontae.  I think because he was the "AB replacement" they are trying extra hard to not doghouse him.

I am tired of this offence especially if this is what's going on. I p[refer "throw to who is open"  and run enough and keep running if they can't stop it.  Forget AB altogether , thats over with and no need to have  that if the QB can throw to who  is open. I now believe as long as ben is here, this is how it will be. He finally got his OC, we are stuck with this for as long as ben plays. He will probably get a new deal and p-lay into his 40's now as well. Remember when he was talking about retiring? That was just his way of whining and getting them to consider him or haley. 

[warfelg]

The only way Ben retires after this year is if we win the Super Bowl.

Otherwise the smartest thing for this team to do is a 2-year extension after this season with little new money, push some of his $42mil cap hit to the first year of that deal, make the second year a "fake year" where you can hide $5-10mil of dead cap.

[Dcash4]

1 hour ago, warfelg said:

'll still contest that part of the batted ball issue is the OL.  They sit in pass pro.  That tipped pass at the end of the game (and two others) by Sweat, he was untouched by Okorafor.  Under Munchak that was a strength to see a DL go up and undercut them to take them down.  That's not a priority right now despite passing faster and it's been a season long problem.

It really depends on the situation. You generally only see a cut on a known single option pass - something like an RPO with the P coming to the backside of the run on a slant where the tackle/TE's ability to cut negates his defender from getting in the passing window as well as from attacking the backside of the run. That last play with the INT, you cant cut because you dont know what option Ben is taking in the passing game. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but OLine are taught to punch when hands go up. Re-watching that play, it was just doomed unless Ben changes something, or gets extremely luck. Sweat lined up wide of the TE to that side and wasnt anywhere near close enough to Chuks to allow him to help get the hands down. A play to his open side, a guy right in front of him to the throwing lane, Bens gotta be better. Sail it, change arm angle, hesitate -- anything. That 3 yard gain isn't worth the chance in that circumstance. 

The way Washington talked about "knowing our tendencies" after the game, it really feels like this could be a big piece of that. There is no reason to put 100% effort into rushing the passer when the ball is out before you will ever get there. Focus on hands up instead of pass rush. We need to find a way to take advantage of less aggressive pass rushes if that's the case. 

1 hour ago, warfelg said:

I couldn't give two flying craps about Tomlin's post game press availability.  15 years in and if you don't realize he's not going to throw guys under the bus.  He's not going to say anything bad about other coaches.  Not going to say anything bad about players.  

I'm sure we are both doing this, but feels like you are making way more out about this than what people (me) are actually saying. I don't want him to name names, I don't care if he is vague, no ones asking for a headline...but he only ever talks about the players, it seems. Talking about execution is talking about the players. If its okay to do that, why is it not okay to be just as vague and mention coaching? 

My concern is that he doesn't actually think coaching is a problem. That if the players play better, everything is fine. And based on the situation constantly being on the low end of the football IQ stick and seeing the same, simple problems for 3 years now -- I think its pretty safe to say nothing is changing there without some force. We have actually reverted back to our "normal" and away from some of the new concepts that Canada obviously influenced. I'm not able to be in the locker-room or the meeting rooms to know better but assuming that its getting fixed when we clearly never see changes makes me believe its not of concern. 

When the only thing I have to go by is press conferences and watching games, I'm gonna start to piece things together - whether I have the rest of the puzzle or not. He may have ripped Randy in the post game, but the only people I saw him talking about were the players. Randy in critical situation s***s the bed schematically over, and over, and over again. Execution doesn't fix everything, so its concerning when that's the only sound bite we get. 

2 hours ago, warfelg said:

Ben to push Diontae.

I think you are spot on here. The more I watch of the games, the less I think he will ever be coming out (even if I believe that's the only way to really fix his issue). I've never seen a receiver get so many chances with drops and constantly having to be instructed by his QB on the field - especially not when there are viable options for more snaps behind him. About once every other series Ben seems to be motioning to DJ about how to run his route or is pulling him aside for a chat.  I don't know if its a pet project of Bens, but its starting to seem like there's a protection for playing time. 

As poorly as it seems some guys have played (DJ, Ebron, IMO Feiler), its kinda surprising we haven't seen any seat changes. I'm just a little worried about Ebron and DJ at this point. Dropping nearly a combined 10 passes in 2 games and continuing to get peppered with targets and playing time validates that what they are doing is okay. 

[jebrick]

I am so done with Fitcher.  Only the Eagles and Jets have punted more than the Steelers this year.  Let that roll around in your head.

Motion is gone.
Play action is gone.
FB is gone.
RB is gone.
QB sneaks are gone since 2004
Roll outs are gone.

Edited December 8, 2020 by jebrick

[Dcash4]

7 minutes ago, jebrick said:

FB is gone

Ah ah! FB is not gone, he has just become a wing!

Which is better! Except that its not....

[August4th]

33 minutes ago, Dcash4 said:

Ah ah! FB is not gone, he has just become a wing!

Which is better! Except that its not....

lol and I thought Watt was gonna be nice asset for the offense when they signed him

I think he can, but the people who put together the gameplan can't figure it out in 2020

Edited December 8, 2020 by August4th

[August4th]

18 minutes ago, jebrick said:

I am so done with Fitcher.  Only the Eagles and Jets have punted more than the Steelers this year.  Let that roll around in your head.

Motion is gone.
Play action is gone.
FB is gone.
RB is gone.
QB sneaks are gone since 2004
Roll outs are gone.

I think Ben is problem for some of these

offense  lacks versatility despite having the players to do it

[Dcash4]

2 minutes ago, August4th said:

lol and I thought Watt was gonna be nice asset for the offense when they signed him

I think he can, but the people who put toghter the gameplan can't figure it out in 2020

There are so many fun things you can do with this offense with all the versatile pieces....Randy would never understand how to do it. 

I hate to do the thing where you point to Shanahan - one of the best in the league - and say can you imagine what it would be like? But think no huddle - 22 personnel. Dj/Chase/JuJu, Ebron, Vance, Connor, Watt. You can be 2 wide with Ebron, you can be 3 wide with Vance in the slot, you can be 4 wide with Watt in the slot, you can be 5 wide with Connor, you can be two in the backfield, you can be 3 TE, you can have Dj as the slot inside Ebron with Connor wide right and still run the football with Watt. You can do whatever you want with that group. Jet sweep, power run, PA pass, spread -- you name it. They play base? Throw. They go Nickle, run it. As soon as they get comfortable, bring your 4 receivers on the field and switch up the flow completely.  

Nah, lets play Watt at the goal line on the wing with a running game that struggles when we do too much. 

Oh, here's a pass to your 3rd string Tackle who has been out on the Covid list most of the last 2 weeks. 

Ebron as a pass catcher only and has struggled at POA his entire 7 year career? Nope, frontside of some runs for blocking, please. The letters by his name represent a tight end after all. 

We have a year 3 running back on the roster who was a TE/WR in college and has over 75 career NFL catches and 201 in college. Yeah, but we ALSO have this rookie with 5 career catches and 24 in college to use on 4th and must. 

Remember that JuJu torched AJ Bouye and Jalen Ramesy on the outside with back shoulder throws? Oh yes, he was good at that wasn't he? Okay then, lets make him Ryan Switzer -- they will never see it coming!

Hey coach, Feiler has trouble getting to the spot fast enough on pulls and its been a problem all year for a guy that never really played the position, but hey, Decastro is good at it. Okay, I hear you....but, what if we pull Feiler on the goal line instead?

[3rivers]

1 hour ago, jebrick said:

I am so done with Fitcher.  Only the Eagles and Jets have punted more than the Steelers this year.  Let that roll around in your head.

Motion is gone.
Play action is gone.
FB is gone.
RB is gone.
QB sneaks are gone since 2004
Roll outs are gone.

I never like fisher as OC, but he's ben's OC, so get used to it I guess.  And if ben plays for another 5 years, expect more of the same. I actually don't like the offence if there is no legit run game 

Edited December 8, 2020 by 3rivers

[jebrick]

https://www.si.com/nfl/steelers/gm-report/pittsburgh-steelers-randy-fichtner-costing

 

Quote

 

Randy Fichtner Continues to Hold Steelers Offense Hostage

Just two weeks ago, I wrote a piece detailing offensive coordinator Randy Fichtner and how his offensive tendencies/play-calling are holding Pittsburgh back from their true potential. Since then, the Steelers have failed to score over twenty points in both contests played.

I'll level with you, Fichtner isn't the only problem. In fact, every player on the offensive side of the football needs a long look in the mirror before this team thinks they're gliding to a Lombardi trophy. Missed blocking assignments, poor throws and terrible drops included.

While Fichtner isn't the only problem, he is perhaps Pittsburgh's biggest concern at the moment. Failing to score on four plays within a yard of the goal line (one pass to a back-up offensive tackle) while remaining one dimensional in the form of continually bad screen passes and three-yard passing routes no matter the down and distance inevitably stalled Pittsburgh's offense.

 

 

[August4th]

two ways this team can go from here

work out the kinks and find a new groove(fire Randy) to go on a playoff run like the 2018 Pats(they were able to transform their offense late in the season)

or continue to play sloppy and start to fade away like the 2019 Pats(their weaknesses got more glaring as they got closer to the postseason)

Edited December 8, 2020 by August4th

[August4th]

 

[Dcash4]

Feels a little empty after we have seen a pretty egregious pattern, and in turn that pattern was followed by more opportunities, but we will see.