Week 14 - GDT - Saints (10-2) @ Eagles (3-8-1)

[Canadian Saint]

1 hour ago, Mid Iowa said:

This loss falls squarely on Sean Payton, and his forced passing game.

15 rushing attempts (between Kamara & Murray) and 38 passing attempts. That's a poor game plan. Kamara averaged 4.5yards per rush. That's great production.

So the pass wasn't working due to the Eagles pass rush. Payton forced it. The run was working, Payton abandoned it. Groundhog day.

Honestly this loss is on our players in the trenches. Both units got slapped around by the Eagles O-line and D-line. For supposed top 5 units on both sides of the ball, they sure didn’t show up. And I could forgive the O-line more than the D-line. Eagles have a lot of legit talent on their D-line. Their O-line is really depleted health wise and talent wise. 
 

Hill struggled, but the O-line did him no favours. Both Armstead and Peat look rusty. Ruiz looks lost around half of his snaps (expected). Easton just got a concussion. 
 

Regardless it was a piss poor effort from both units and I think it’s the biggest reason we lost. 

[Jlowe22]

47 minutes ago, Canadian Saint said:

Honestly this loss is on our players in the trenches. Both units got slapped around by the Eagles O-line and D-line. For supposed top 5 units on both sides of the ball, they sure didn’t show up. And I could forgive the O-line more than the D-line. Eagles have a lot of legit talent on their D-line. Their O-line is really depleted health wise and talent wise. 
 

Hill struggled, but the O-line did him no favours. Both Armstead and Peat look rusty. Ruiz looks lost around half of his snaps (expected). Easton just got a concussion. 
 

Regardless it was a piss poor effort from both units and I think it’s the biggest reason we lost. 

Yep, that’s usually the case with us.  We live and die by the trenches, no matter the QB or the team we’re playing.  We get bad play from the trenches, it’s always gonna be a long day for us.

And it seems like they either have dominant games or bad games.

To be fair though, we still could have squeaked out a win if Lutz doesn’t miss two field goals.  

[Canadian Saint]

6 hours ago, Jlowe22 said:

Yep, that’s usually the case with us.  We live and die by the trenches, no matter the QB or the team we’re playing.  We get bad play from the trenches, it’s always gonna be a long day for us.

And it seems like they either have dominant games or bad games.

To be fair though, we still could have squeaked out a win if Lutz doesn’t miss two field goals.  

Seems like Payton agrees with you:

 

Payton is about to raid NASA and fire a bunch of rockets up this teams *****. Good. Lets see if we can get a response. Play the Chiefs pissed off and see what we can do.

[Canadian Saint]

Also on Taysom:

 

 

[Jlowe22]

Sounds like Payton is fed up with some problems we’ve had for a while now that finally cost us a loss.

Im glad he called out Peat also, he’s too inconsistent.

[Jlowe22]

12 hours ago, Canadian Saint said:

Also on Taysom:

 

 

In my opinion, slow on processing is an understatement.  I know he lacks experience, but dude has one of those old pentium IIIs in there.  
 

[Saint_James]

Was going to make a separate thread but I'll just put my thoughts here:

Dennis Allen has costs us probably two trips to the Super Bowl with his poor defensive schemes and baffling decisions like cover-zero in a Hail Mary situation against Minn, but this game takes the cake.  I have no confidence this season will be any different in the post-season.  Bad defenses have tarnished the Payton/Brees era. 

The ONLY way the Eagles can win this game is if we let Jalen Hurtz run wild, yet that's all we did all game.  And they KNEW that going in the game.   They KNEW he was going to be running the ball a lot.   No QB spy, no mush-rush to keep him in the pocket, just constant pressure up the middle with no containment.   And for the love of god why all the single-man coverage in obvious passing situations  Dennis Allen.  Why? We've seen that all season and it's mostly hurt us. 

Dennis Allen is just a well-mannered Gregg Williams.   Yes you can blame Lutz, yes you can criticize Taysom Hill, whatever.  I'm watching that game and I'm like just...baffled.  Even after it was obvious where the leaks were, the man never makes adjustments to fix them.  

I'm not upset we lost to the re-energized Eagles with our backup QB.  I'm just more upset this is a sign that when we need it most in the playoffs, this defense will let us down AGAIN. 

 

Edited December 15, 2020 by Saint_James

[Saint_James]

On 12/13/2020 at 7:23 PM, Mid Iowa said:

So every new starter has a bad game. But he's not a rookie, he's had 3 years to learn this process. So do we trust him, or are we all enamored by his athleticism?

I don't know how to judge this thing now.

 

Yes this was Taysom's worst game as a starter (Denver doesn't count due to gameplan).  Let's look at how bad it was for all the haters:

28/38 for 291 yards and 2 TD's.  One INT in the stat books, but it was a deflection off Kamara so not really on him.   The fumble was on a horrible 4'th down play design so it's not like it hurt us all that much as there was no way they were going to convert anyway.  

The Eagles lead the league in QB sacks and pressures, and while that certainly affected his game, he didn't wilt and fall apart in the face of that pressure.  

Now I know we've been spoiled by Brees but if that's a bad game from a QB I'll take it and never look back.   With all due respect, he hasn't been getting first-team QB reps for three years.  He's hardly had ANY QB reps or practice at all on the Saints.  He's split his time with special teams, TE, etc etc.  We've all heard the stories how he can barely even make the QB meetings due to all his extra responsibilities.

I think this is a guy we can build on post-Brees.   He's show to be an accurate passer with a great arm, he just needs more experience. 

[Jlowe22]

8 hours ago, Saint_James said:

 

Yes this was Taysom's worst game as a starter (Denver doesn't count due to gameplan).  Let's look at how bad it was for all the haters:

28/38 for 291 yards and 2 TD's.  One INT in the stat books, but it was a deflection off Kamara so not really on him.   The fumble was on a horrible 4'th down play design so it's not like it hurt us all that much as there was no way they were going to convert anyway.  

The Eagles lead the league in QB sacks and pressures, and while that certainly affected his game, he didn't wilt and fall apart in the face of that pressure.  

Now I know we've been spoiled by Brees but if that's a bad game from a QB I'll take it and never look back.   With all due respect, he hasn't been getting first-team QB reps for three years.  He's hardly had ANY QB reps or practice at all on the Saints.  He's split his time with special teams, TE, etc etc.  We've all heard the stories how he can barely even make the QB meetings due to all his extra responsibilities.

I think this is a guy we can build on post-Brees.   He's show to be an accurate passer with a great arm, he just needs more experience. 

The INT was a lot on Hill, he has no touch, threw a heater like he always does.  He actually has a pretty good bullet pass, but that's all he's got.  Has no touch whatsoever, his deep ball is sketchy as hell also.  

He also turns the ball over WAY too much.  Averages more than a fumble a game to go along with two picks.  In 4 starts thats getting close to 2 turnovers per game.  That's Jameis Winston territory  if kept up all season.

Overall, I'll give him a C so far.  Hasn't been completely terrible, hasn't been great either.  

[SWATcha]

On 12/14/2020 at 6:45 AM, Mid Iowa said:

This loss falls squarely on Sean Payton, and his forced passing game.

15 rushing attempts (between Kamara & Murray) and 38 passing attempts. That's a poor game plan. Kamara averaged 4.5yards per rush. That's great production.

So the pass wasn't working due to the Eagles pass rush. Payton forced it. The run was working, Payton abandoned it. Groundhog day.

This. What the Eagles did, is how the Saints should of ran their offense this game. Payton is calling plays designed for Brees, instead of working to Taysom's strengths.

[tyler735]

Between Hill's lack of pocket presence, slow processing of the field, turnovers, and lack of touch, I think I've seen all I need to see to know it's time for Winston to get a shot until Brees comes back. An interesting stat here given how many games (snaps) he's played this year. He would shatter our fumble record if he kept this up over a full season.

 

[Saint_James]

12 hours ago, Jlowe22 said:

The INT was a lot on Hill, he has no touch, threw a heater like he always does.  He actually has a pretty good bullet pass, but that's all he's got.  Has no touch whatsoever, his deep ball is sketchy as hell also.  

He also turns the ball over WAY too much.  Averages more than a fumble a game to go along with two picks.  In 4 starts thats getting close to 2 turnovers per game.  That's Jameis Winston territory  if kept up all season.

Overall, I'll give him a C so far.  Hasn't been completely terrible, hasn't been great either.  

 

At least he HAS a deep ball.   With Drew we cannot stretch the field at all.  And yes he could use some touch but these guys are being paid tons of money to make that catch.

I give him a pass on the 4'th down fumble this time because that play simply required backside protection and the protection failed.  The play was blown up from the get-go.    If Taysom didn't fumble it, he's taking a sack anyway.  So on 4'th down what did it matter?  The ball was going to the Eagles anyway.

I think a C is fair but I'm looking at his potential, not what he is right now.   But what he is right now, when he's zipping those 20 yard out's to Thomas?  It's...pretty nice. 

[Jlowe22]

35 minutes ago, Saint_James said:

 

At least he HAS a deep ball.   With Drew we cannot stretch the field at all.  And yes he could use some touch but these guys are being paid tons of money to make that catch.

I give him a pass on the 4'th down fumble this time because that play simply required backside protection and the protection failed.  The play was blown up from the get-go.    If Taysom didn't fumble it, he's taking a sack anyway.  So on 4'th down what did it matter?  The ball was going to the Eagles anyway.

I think a C is fair but I'm looking at his potential, not what he is right now.   But what he is right now, when he's zipping those 20 yard out's to Thomas?  It's...pretty nice. 

I’m on my phone right now so I can’t go back and watch it, but I’m willing to bet he didn’t have two hands on the ball again while in the pocket. This isn’t a one off, this is a recurring problem, and it’s a problem.  He’s on pace for over 30 turnovers.  In this day and age that’s unacceptable.  Yes it was fourth down, yes the play calling is shady, yes he’s sucks at protecting the football.

Im not all that concerned right now what his potential is, because we need to win games right now.  We’re gonna lose some guys next year, this year is important. We don’t have the luxury of coasting and watching 30 year old QB learn the ropes.

[Jlowe22]

9 hours ago, tyler735 said:

Between Hill's lack of pocket presence, slow processing of the field, turnovers, and lack of touch, I think I've seen all I need to see to know it's time for Winston to get a shot until Brees comes back. An interesting stat here given how many games (snaps) he's played this year. He would shatter our fumble record if he kept this up over a full season.

 

I didn’t realize Brooks was such a fumbling machine.  Guess the ints overshadowed it.

[tyler735]

3 hours ago, Jlowe22 said:

I didn’t realize Brooks was such a fumbling machine.  Guess the ints overshadowed it.

Yeah didn't realize it was that bad either until I saw this. Apparently he was just a very well rounded turnover machine.