Defense Discussion [2017]

[skibrett15]

We had no injuries in preseason/TC to those position groups.  Those picks look a lot better if Davis falls flat on his face, or if Janis gets hurt, or one of the top 3.  Same goes for Ty.

 

Heck, all 3 RB MADE THE ROSTER.  Part of that is just throwing stuff at the wall and letting it settle out over the season, but the other part is that none of those picks fell flat on their face in preseason/TC either.

[Norm]

13 minutes ago, Gopackgonerd said:

Yah it's not a big deal really if you lose late round picks

That's all I'm saying. Id rather not force a position that late if you see a clear better talent. I have ZERO insight into this but I venture to guess most guys we take late we all have a couple rounds higher than the actual pick. I'm cool with that. Hey we got Odom anyways who might have been a 7th rd OLB to take right?

[Norm]

13 minutes ago, skibrett15 said:

We had no injuries in preseason/TC to those position groups.  Those picks look a lot better if Davis falls flat on his face, or if Janis gets hurt, or one of the top 3.  Same goes for Ty.

 

Heck, all 3 RB MADE THE ROSTER.  Part of that is just throwing stuff at the wall and letting it settle out over the season, but the other part is that none of those picks fell flat on their face in preseason/TC either.

All those backs have shown a bit to a degree too. I'm guessing they didn't even expect that lol

[TransientTexan]

2 hours ago, NormSizedMidget said:

Like I always say. Trying to fill positions at pick like 200 is a bad way to operate imo.

Yea that's my approach. Nothing is a sure prospect in any draft. Even in round 2, there's like a 50% miss rate across the league. Once you get to rounds 4-7, 'hit' rate odds are dropping below 15%. It's takes alot of effort just to find decent players at all, much less trying to get cute and find one at a position of need.

It's kinda like when you look at the CB situation going into 2013. Twill and House were still on the books through 2014 (kinda like Nelson & Cobb now). Shields just finished 2012 very strong and was signed through 2013 (like D.Adams situation). Plus there was Hayward, who just had a spectacular rookie year. You could argue that GB really didn't need a CB in the late 5th round, but still took Hyde. He ended up being a solid player and now looks like he'll generate a 5th-round compensatory pick next yr. 

[Norm]

3 minutes ago, TransientTexan said:

Yea that's my approach. Nothing is a sure prospect in any draft. Even in round 2, there's like a 50% miss rate across the league. Once you get to rounds 4-7, 'hit' rate odds are dropping below 15%. It's takes alot of effort just to find decent players at all, much less trying to get cute and find one at a position of need.

It's kinda like when you look at the CB situation going into 2013. Twill and House were still on the books through 2014 (kinda like Nelson & Cobb now). Shields just finished 2012 very strong and was signed through 2013 (like D.Adams situation). Plus there was Hayward, who just had a spectacular rookie year. You could argue that GB really didn't need a CB in the late 5th round, but still took Hyde. He ended up being a solid player and now looks like he'll generate a 5th-round compensatory pick next yr. 

Yeah it's a LOT easier to remember when it failed than we it worked. That's part of why it seems a bad idea at times.

[AlexGreen#20]

Just trying to figure out what this angst is about:

1: Kevin King-Active Roster

2: Josh Jones-Active Roster

3: Montravious Adams-Active Roster

4A: Vince Biegel-PUP will be on Active Roster

4B: Jamaal Williams: Active Roster

5A Deangelo Yance: Practice Squad

5B: Aaron Jones: Active Roster

6A: Kofi Amichia: Practice Squad

7A: Devante Mays: Active Roster

7B: Malachi Dupree: Cut

We're mad we drafted 3 RBs with a 4th, 5th comp, and 7th rounder?

You don't expect anybody past the first 4 rounds to turn into a player. At that point you're buying lottery tickets.

[Norm]

All the backs appear worthy of a spot ATM too. 

Lotto tickets is the line I just used the other day addressing this. We lost a 7th... And it wasn't like the kid couldn't play. Isn't it worse to take a guy who looks Sergio like awful than your roster couldn't keep a guy?

Like I said, if this is the complaint... We're doing alright.

[SassyFascistAlphaGuy]

People forget that Antonio Brown was a 6th round pick. Even if you're stacked at WR, you take a shot at a guy like Brown if you like him and look what happens... get the best WR in the league at pick 195. 

[vegas492]

19 hours ago, lrs3 said:

You are talking about a late 4th, two late 5th and two late 7th round picks...those five picks would have combined to net a low 3rd/high 4th rounder based on the conventional draft value chart.

Having all of the draft picks active or even on the roster next year is not the point.

I'd love to go back in history and list all of the quality players that GB has drafted in those rounds.  And our front office blew through those picks as if they didn't have a plan for how to attack that part of the draft.

Those picks are developmental in nature.  Special teams guys.  Depth.

About the only thing that kind of makes sense is if the club made the decision to get veteran depth....and swing for the fences with those picks, understanding that if one hits, it is a win.

And right now?  I'd happily take a late 3 for all of those picks.  You'd get more juice out of that guy than you would the cut guys, or guys who will not be active, or guys who won't even be depth in two years.

 

[vegas492]

16 hours ago, Gopackgonerd said:

Yah it's not a big deal really if you lose late round picks

It is rare to let so many go in a draft class.

Driver, Tauscher...7'th round picks.  Not the rule, more of the exception.

Was Zombo a 7'th?

Where was Timmerman taken?  6'th?

Brad Jones, 7'th?  Jones had a pretty solid year or two.

Janis is a great example of a 7'th..potential to be developed and quality special teams guy.

It is okay to admit that GB kind of blew the back part of this year's draft.  

Funny thing...I'm not even that mad.  Just two head scratchers....the drafting of 3 RB's and the drafting of Yancey in the 5th.  That Yancey pick was probably the worst pick GB made.  Swung for the fence with Dupre, and I think they gave up on him too early.

[vegas492]

15 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Just trying to figure out what this angst is about:

1: Kevin King-Active Roster

2: Josh Jones-Active Roster

3: Montravious Adams-Active Roster

4A: Vince Biegel-PUP will be on Active Roster

4B: Jamaal Williams: Active Roster

5A Deangelo Yance: Practice Squad

5B: Aaron Jones: Active Roster

6A: Kofi Amichia: Practice Squad

7A: Devante Mays: Active Roster

7B: Malachi Dupree: Cut

We're mad we drafted 3 RBs with a 4th, 5th comp, and 7th rounder?

You don't expect anybody past the first 4 rounds to turn into a player. At that point you're buying lottery tickets.

If you have the time...find me the last time GB cut a 5'th round pick, a 6'th round pick and a 7'th round pick from their most recent draft class.

I'm guessing it is rare.

My perceived "angst" is this.....we have limited RB touches.  And drafted three of them.  There aren't enough touches to make that a smart drafting philosophy.

I'm not so upset about drafting 2 WR's....the Yancey pick was a complete head scratcher.

I think the draft could have been organized and run better just based on those picks.

But...I can't really be upset about anything.  Just a little angst.  Loved King, Jones, Adams and Biegle.  I didn't like the Williams pick, but I also didn't hate it.  I like the flier on Amichia.

[Norm]

8 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

It is rare to let so many go in a draft class.

Driver, Tauscher...7'th round picks.  Not the rule, more of the exception.

Was Zombo a 7'th?

Where was Timmerman taken?  6'th?

Brad Jones, 7'th?  Jones had a pretty solid year or two.

Janis is a great example of a 7'th..potential to be developed and quality special teams guy.

It is okay to admit that GB kind of blew the back part of this year's draft.  

Funny thing...I'm not even that mad.  Just two head scratchers....the drafting of 3 RB's and the drafting of Yancey in the 5th.  That Yancey pick was probably the worst pick GB made.  Swung for the fence with Dupre, and I think they gave up on him too early.

But then there's 100 guys that did nothing. I said it somewhere but people get too tied up in what they CAN be instead of what they usually are. I can never say you blew your last three picks because the nature of the picks. It's like wow they screwed up but you're just throwing darts blind folded there.

We only lost one guy from the entire class. How is that letting so many go?

If we have a ****tier team more guys may have stayed. Doesn't mean it's a better class.

[vegas492]

You understand that if you cut them and they clear waivers that means that other teams thought they weren't worth their spot on the 53 man roster either.

Sure they get to the practice squad, but that's a far cry from making a 53 man roster.

I took guys off the top of my head.  Those later picks are more valuable than you currently give them credit for.  

And if your roster is that good?  Package the picks and trade up for a better prospect.  

Keep an eye on this for next year.  GB will have a ton of picks.  And a good, deep, young roster.  

[Norm]

7 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

You understand that if you cut them and they clear waivers that means that other teams thought they weren't worth their spot on the 53 man roster either.

Sure they get to the practice squad, but that's a far cry from making a 53 man roster.

I took guys off the top of my head.  Those later picks are more valuable than you currently give them credit for.  

And if your roster is that good?  Package the picks and trade up for a better prospect.  

Keep an eye on this for next year.  GB will have a ton of picks.  And a good, deep, young roster.  

The point is we didn't lose assets. Let's say they're the exact same guys but made the team. People would complain less, it's true. But they got cut and we keep them on anyways. I'm cool with that.

We've had some guys claimed so it's like we don't have a deep roster. 

I doubt you'd be happier with selections if they were claimed by someone else is my point I suppose.

[Shanedorf]

12 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

My perceived "angst" is this.....we have limited RB touches.  And drafted three of them.  There aren't enough touches to make that a smart drafting philosophy.

I think the draft could have been organized and run better just based on those picks.

1)The draft is a crap shoot and injuries arise - especially at the RB position which takes a pounding.

2) The Packers lost their entire RB room during the offseason.

Lacy, Starks, Michael, Crockett, Burks and a couple of UDFA's. They had to rebuild that position and spending multiple picks to do it was not only wise, but necessary. GB was also addressing the fact that Monty has some health issues and has had some injuries during his time in GB. On top of that Janis is a FA after this year and the KR position may be open in 2018. That's potentially a key role for RB3

The Packers re-stocked the RB room with late picks in a draft that was very deep at RB. I'm having a hard time seeing the problem here.