2021 FA and Trade Talks

[KimuraGod]

1 minute ago, JohnnyHectorFan said:

Man, guys really wanted Keanu Neal!!  I think the reality of the situation is JD won’t overpay and guys aren’t kicking down the door to play for the Jets. I think we filled holes at WR and DE. Free agency is not over. Looks for us to ultimately pull some of the ex-49ers like Sherman, Williams, Hyder, Thomas. Brieda or Tevin Coleman.
 

I know most guys on here will either hate or be meh about these guys, but they will make us more competitive this year and that’s a start. For comparison look at the Brooklyn Nets. A few years ago the hired a real coach, drafted well and signed/traded for a few solid vets. They made the playoffs, got resiectable and next thing you know they land Durant and Irving. Not saying it’s the best comp or predicting something like this will happen for the Jets, but it is a blueprint. 

That without doubt is the general consensus around the league. Unfortunately we can’t entice players in with super bowl aspirations we need to pay them well. If we had to give Neal $7m instead of $5m then just do it if Coach Saleh wants him. 

[skhurst0398]

19 minutes ago, xenajets said:

If we had to give Neal $7m instead of $5m then just do it if Coach Saleh wants him. 

$5m, $7m, $12m - there's no indication that JD hasn't been offering these things. No matter how much money he can throw at them, at the end of the day, these players have to be the ones to commit and a lot of the top tier players are choosing familiarity and/or winning (aka stability). 

[KingOfNewYork]

52 minutes ago, xenajets said:

And I get yours and others points of view too. I’d love to sit comfortably thinking JD will knock it out the park year in year out in the draft. I just don’t have that faith he will. Certainly not yet. 
 

There has been players that have signed for below market prices due to the financial restrictions due to the cap. JD should in my opinion been more aggressive. 
 

The team is arguably better. Even if I concede we have made a small improvement it’s nothing like what could of been done. And again I reiterate I was never calling for signing all the best guys. Of course that’s unrealistic but there is many missed opportunities that JD has failed on this offseason. Just my opinion. 

If he attempts to sign a guy and they opt to sign elsewhere its hard for me to call it a miss. Examples of this include;

Fuller, he opted to sign with his former DC, now a HC in Fangio. Cant even be mad at that. 

Zeitler, went to a far better team in Baltimore. 

Thuney took 80M and went to the defending AFC Champs, Long did the same. 

If our draft goes Wilson/Horn/Cleveland at 2/23/34 then I'm like okay, a starting QB/Corner/OG with 2 3rds and then some left plus whatever we get for Sam. 

I like the Davis and Cole pick ups at Receiver, Davis is an upgrade at LB and Lawson is an upgrade at EDGE. 

The question I have for you is what moves did he not make that you feel he could have? 

[KingOfNewYork]

46 minutes ago, xenajets said:

That without doubt is the general consensus around the league. Unfortunately we can’t entice players in with super bowl aspirations we need to pay them well. If we had to give Neal $7m instead of $5m then just do it if Coach Saleh wants him. 

5M in Texas is probably more than 7M in Jersey plus Dallas just has more cache than us plus his former coach is there. 

[xrade]

1 hour ago, xenajets said:

Davis is an upgrade over Perriman but not by a huge margin. Perriman signed for 4x less than what we signed Davis. 

Sorry, bother, but I have to comment here. I believe Davis is a big upgrade over Perriman. I wanted to retain Perriman as a #4. I felt that would be a good role for him considering he never proved to be a true starter. After the comments about a teammate, you knew JD would not resign him. Can’t have that crap in the locker room. 

 

1 hour ago, xenajets said:

Lawson is an upgrade over Jordan Jenkins. But again by himself doesn’t exactly make our pass rush elite

Who would make this pass rush elite that was available?  It won’t be Lawson by himself. It will be Lawson plus Q. It will be the new D scheme with a pretty good defensive HC. It may be some of our young players panning out. It also eliminates the need to spend a high pick on an edge in a draft year where there may not be a lot of perceived talent. Hole filled. 

 

1 hour ago, xenajets said:

Even the likes of Davis and Joyner are just 1yr deals

Prove it deals. If they play well, resign them or extend them. If they don’t play well move on with no cap implications.

1 hour ago, xenajets said:

but we can’t kid ourselves and think we’ve got much better this offseason because quite frankly we haven’t. 

With all the issues we had from coaching to talent, did you really expect a great leap. I think you forget that out offseason addition of a new coaching staff is a huge boost. It’s not just about the players. We filled holes at WR and edge. Let’s let the rest of the offseason including the draft play out before we start judging how horrible the offseason is.

So far I am good with it. I will say I would like an OG. Turner is still out there so is Lamp although I am not so sure how good he is. It is also a strong draft for iOL. For as good as Thuney is, I prefer the idea of drafting iOL in round 2. Longer term stability and infinitely cheaper.  Have any Pats OL worked out well for other teams?  Legit question. As for CB, I am not the biggest fan of shelling out big bucks to FA CB’s  They rarely payoff.  I actually can’t think of one off the top of my head on any team that paid off.  If we need a CB, draft one.  

The reality is that JD and the Jets will be judged on what we do at QB either this year or next. Preferably this year.

[KingOfNewYork]

You gotta think its like this. 

Jets contact agent and they negotiate a number. Agent does that with multiple teams and the player decides based on that. 

If the offers aren't close to what the players desire they leak something to the media to get one of the teams to bite. 

Douglas never bites

And why? Because the player clearly doesn't wanna be here. 

The old saying is if you have to choose between me and another person choose the other person. 

[KingOfNewYork]

So where would you guys go now?

Veteran route- a guy like AJ Bouye with experience in the scheme but he's 30

Untapped potential- a guy like Parry Nickerson, played in the scheme as well and is 26

[xrade]

13 minutes ago, KingOfNewYork said:

You gotta think its like this. 

Jets contact agent and they negotiate a number. Agent does that with multiple teams and the player decides based on that. 

If the offers aren't close to what the players desire they leak something to the media to get one of the teams to bite. 

Douglas never bites

And why? Because the player clearly doesn't wanna be here. 

The old saying is if you have to choose between me and another person choose the other person. 

This could be one scenario. With such a tight-lipped FO, we will never know.  I prefer to not concern myself with guessing why but rather the end result.

I will say I agree with some who say JD needs to sell the organization. It is a tough sell but that is his job.  If a FA JD likes and the question of $ is within the ballpark of what JD values, he may have to cede his hardline value stance. If it is not about the money but rather the organization itself, JD must put on his salesman’s hat and sell the Jets.  Regardless, we don’t know what is happening and we probably never will. FA signings will get easier with, hopefully, less of a need to dive into those waters. The drafting acumen of JD will decide all of that. 

[xrade]

3 minutes ago, KingOfNewYork said:

So where would you guys go now?

Veteran route- a guy like AJ Bouye with experience in the scheme but he's 30

Untapped potential- a guy like Parry Nickerson, played in the scheme as well and is 26

Poole. Maybe King?

[KimuraGod]

7 hours ago, skhurst0398 said:

$5m, $7m, $12m - there's no indication that JD hasn't been offering these things. No matter how much money he can throw at them, at the end of the day, these players have to be the ones to commit and a lot of the top tier players are choosing familiarity and/or winning (aka stability). 

Of course there’s no definitive proof of anything that’s gone on. And that’s something as a fan you have to just accept.
 

The only thing we know for a fact are the signings we’ve made. We don’t know that ‘player X’ didn’t sign for us because of money or location or winning franchise. All we know is who we’ve signed. I’m hoping all these moves work out. It’s just for me I don’t think we’ve done enough. My god I hope I’m wrong but personally I feel it’s been a missed opportunity this offseason that’s all. 

[KimuraGod]

7 hours ago, KingOfNewYork said:

If he attempts to sign a guy and they opt to sign elsewhere its hard for me to call it a miss. Examples of this include;

Fuller, he opted to sign with his former DC, now a HC in Fangio. Cant even be mad at that. 

Zeitler, went to a far better team in Baltimore. 

Thuney took 80M and went to the defending AFC Champs, Long did the same. 

If our draft goes Wilson/Horn/Cleveland at 2/23/34 then I'm like okay, a starting QB/Corner/OG with 2 3rds and then some left plus whatever we get for Sam. 

I like the Davis and Cole pick ups at Receiver, Davis is an upgrade at LB and Lawson is an upgrade at EDGE. 

The question I have for you is what moves did he not make that you feel he could have? 

We can go on all day about this player and that player.

Iv made my opinions known but I’m a (nearly) dad of three with a business to run. JD clearly knows better than me and puts thousands more effort and time into this so I’m just frustrated as a fan get sometimes! 

At the end of the day it’s a pointless exercise because we’ve signed who we’ve signed and that’s the end of it really. I will support the team as always and like Iv said I hope we have a great draft and go into next year with renewed optimism. 

[KimuraGod]

6 hours ago, xrade said:

Sorry, bother, but I have to comment here. I believe Davis is a big upgrade over Perriman. I wanted to retain Perriman as a #4. I felt that would be a good role for him considering he never proved to be a true starter. After the comments about a teammate, you knew JD would not resign him. Can’t have that crap in the locker room. 

 

Who would make this pass rush elite that was available?  It won’t be Lawson by himself. It will be Lawson plus Q. It will be the new D scheme with a pretty good defensive HC. It may be some of our young players panning out. It also eliminates the need to spend a high pick on an edge in a draft year where there may not be a lot of perceived talent. Hole filled. 

 

Prove it deals. If they play well, resign them or extend them. If they don’t play well move on with no cap implications.

With all the issues we had from coaching to talent, did you really expect a great leap. I think you forget that out offseason addition of a new coaching staff is a huge boost. It’s not just about the players. We filled holes at WR and edge. Let’s let the rest of the offseason including the draft play out before we start judging how horrible the offseason is.

So far I am good with it. I will say I would like an OG. Turner is still out there so is Lamp although I am not so sure how good he is. It is also a strong draft for iOL. For as good as Thuney is, I prefer the idea of drafting iOL in round 2. Longer term stability and infinitely cheaper.  Have any Pats OL worked out well for other teams?  Legit question. As for CB, I am not the biggest fan of shelling out big bucks to FA CB’s  They rarely payoff.  I actually can’t think of one off the top of my head on any team that paid off.  If we need a CB, draft one.  

The reality is that JD and the Jets will be judged on what we do at QB either this year or next. Preferably this year.

-I didn’t want to resign Perriman I’m just saying that he signed a deal 4x less than Davis. 
 

-Again we don’t know what draft picks come in and to be fair if they hit the ground running we could be on to something. Currently though I still feel we are a proven pass rusher short. Even an older guy who can just be a pass rush specialist. May add one after the draft. 
 

-Yeah there’s certainly no cap implications but I like having long term plans and seeing the direction the team is heading. Not a fan of lots of 1yr deals. Sure a few are fine for a vet pass rusher or receiver as insurance but it just feels we have a lot of 1yr guys. 
 

-Again Iv stated this before. Coach Saleh can’t be given a similar level that Gase had and expect him to single handily turn it around. There’s maybe three or four coaches in sport who can turn a team not good into winners. Saleh has never been a HC before so that’s a tough ask. When having a new coach surely surrounding him with the best talent would get the most out of him. 
 

-I can’t be mad for not getting Thuney; you can understand why he went to KC. I absolutely want a guard within that #23/#34 range. Would of been nice to go out and sign a vet for the same money that cutting GVR and Lewis would equate too. 
 

-I also wasn’t a fan of dropping massive money on a cb in FA because we’ve been burnt before. Adoree Jackson will more than likely sign a 1yr deal. As Fuller just has. If we have to overpay a guy in a 1yr deal with zero cap ramifications then why not do it is all my question is. Our CB room was laughed at by everyone and so far it’s actually worse as Poole is still unsigned. 

[KimuraGod]

6 hours ago, KingOfNewYork said:

You gotta think its like this. 

Jets contact agent and they negotiate a number. Agent does that with multiple teams and the player decides based on that. 

If the offers aren't close to what the players desire they leak something to the media to get one of the teams to bite. 

Douglas never bites

And why? Because the player clearly doesn't wanna be here. 

The old saying is if you have to choose between me and another person choose the other person. 

Then maybe a change in tactics is something to consider. Who knows. Who cares really. At the end of the day I get not wanting us to be used just to get someone a better payday. 

Big time athletes are very pampered people. Their ego needs stroking (no Deshaun jokes) and sometimes they need to be wined and dined. 
 

[KimuraGod]

6 hours ago, xrade said:

This could be one scenario. With such a tight-lipped FO, we will never know.  I prefer to not concern myself with guessing why but rather the end result.

I will say I agree with some who say JD needs to sell the organization. It is a tough sell but that is his job.  If a FA JD likes and the question of $ is within the ballpark of what JD values, he may have to cede his hardline value stance. If it is not about the money but rather the organization itself, JD must put on his salesman’s hat and sell the Jets.  Regardless, we don’t know what is happening and we probably never will. FA signings will get easier with, hopefully, less of a need to dive into those waters. The drafting acumen of JD will decide all of that. 

Like we’ve all hypothesised maybe a ‘certain’ player is using us for leverage and as no intention to sign for us. In that case all we are is a driving force in getting more money. Zero we can do about that. Makes me think of that prick Hightower who came over for his birthday and got some free cake. All looked good then he went back to BB and got a better deal (and some cupcakes) 

Its all a game and we have to play it too. But for the players who genuinely want to go to visits or zoom calls or however they are doing it now; JD needs to sell the dream of what the future will look like. 

JD seems to me from all his interviews like he knows what he’s doing. He’s been in the game long enough. Sometimes though a smooth talking exec can be the thing you need to get the deal over the line. I don’t think JD has that personally.
 

 

[JetsandI]

11 hours ago, KingOfNewYork said:

So where would you guys go now?

Veteran route- a guy like AJ Bouye with experience in the scheme but he's 30

Untapped potential- a guy like Parry Nickerson, played in the scheme as well and is 26

Jets signed 31 years old S so I am open to either.