Browns fans: What do you think of this current regime?

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

3 minutes ago, sdrawkcab321 said:

Almost all of those guys would have to become pro bowlers to have the impact Wentz would. Don’t start with that hot takes BS. We know what Shon coleman, Kessler, drango, Louis, and Peyton are. Kizer will be replaced this offseason, Corey Coleman can’t stay on the field. Peppers can’t cover and if we keep going at the rate we’re going that 2018 pick won’t be great either. 

Taking a D2 prospect who was 23 with limited experience is the equivalent of betting your kids college money on the first hand of poker.  Sure it may pay off, or you look like the biggest arse that's ever lived.

Both Colemans, Peppers and obviously the 2018 first and second rounders can all be long term starters (potentially).  Obviously there are going to be misses, that's the whole premise of trading down.  Good GM's hit on 10% more of their picks than bad GM's, so the really good ones stack the deck in their favor by drafting more often.

The 2016 draft thus far has netted a decent starter in Corey Coleman (albeit injury prone), a starting DE in Ogbah who is somehere between ok and decent, a decent starting RT, a starting caliber MLB, a capable move TE and a pretty standard backup qb. That's 6 "hit's" in that draft.  Unless you think a GM is going 6 for 7 every year, you have to draft a bunch and expect some misses.

[Rod Johnson]

12 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Taking a D2 prospect who was 23 with limited experience is the equivalent of betting your kids college money on the first hand of poker.  Sure it may pay off, or you look like the biggest arse that's ever lived.

Both Colemans, Peppers and obviously the 2018 first and second rounders can all be long term starters (potentially).  Obviously there are going to be misses, that's the whole premise of trading down.  Good GM's hit on 10% more of their picks than bad GM's, so the really good ones stack the deck in their favor by drafting more often.

The 2016 draft thus far has netted a decent starter in Corey Coleman (albeit injury prone), a starting DE in Ogbah who is somehere between ok and decent, a decent starting RT, a starting caliber MLB, a capable move TE and a pretty standard backup qb. That's 6 "hit's" in that draft.  Unless you think a GM is going 6 for 7 every year, you have to draft a bunch and expect some misses.

This is where it's worth differentiating what is a starting player on our team and what constitutes an "NFL starter".  I like to think Jo Scho is a starter, but he beat out nobody for the job.  Ogbah looks impressive, his main competition has been Carl Nassib and Nate Orchard, 2 unprovens.  Devalve is nothing more than what we've had in guys like Evan Moore or Barnridge and they've proven to be expendable in the NFL.  Corey Coleman can't even be slotted as a reliable #2 because injuries.  Marking that up as 6 "hits" is very subjective, when we cut these players in 2-3 years nobody here is going to bat an eye.

[dawgdish]

11 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Taking a D2 prospect who was 23 with limited experience is the equivalent of betting your kids college money on the first hand of poker.  Sure it may pay off, or you look like the biggest arse that's ever lived.

Both Colemans, Peppers and obviously the 2018 first and second rounders can all be long term starters (potentially).  Obviously there are going to be misses, that's the whole premise of trading down.  Good GM's hit on 10% more of their picks than bad GM's, so the really good ones stack the deck in their favor by drafting more often.

The 2016 draft thus far has netted a decent starter in Corey Coleman (albeit injury prone), a starting DE in Ogbah who is somehere between ok and decent, a decent starting RT, a starting caliber MLB, a capable move TE and a pretty standard backup qb. That's 6 "hit's" in that draft.  Unless you think a GM is going 6 for 7 every year, you have to draft a bunch and expect some misses.

By your own wording, all of those "hits" are only, decent, capable, and ok. Good GMs also find superstars, and stars and very good starters once in a while, especially in overlooked guys. If all we ever do is find guys you need tepid adjectives to describe, we can amass an army of them and sill still never be anything more than an ok team. You'd think a bunch of Harvard degrees who drafted 4 WRs in one draft might have found one gem. Nope. That's why it also makes sense to sit there sometimes and take the star-potential starting QB or blue chip player that's staring you in the face instead of just making it a numbers game. See: Miles.

[dawgdish]

45 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

We have no idea what Sashi's role entailed previously, but I'm guessing it didn't involve watching tape and scouting.  There's a reason guys like Berry have jobs.

Which makes handing Sashi the keys to the kingdom and final say over the draft and roster even more inexplicable. The real issue here is Haslam. 

[Rod Johnson]

4 minutes ago, dawgdish said:

By your own wording, all of those "hits" are only, decent, capable, and ok. Good GMs also find superstars, and stars and very good starters once in a while, especially in overlooked guys. If all we ever do is find guys you need tepid adjectives to describe, we can amass an army of them and sill still never be anything more than an ok team. You'd think a bunch of Harvard degrees who drafted 4 WRs in one draft might have found one gem. Nope. That's why it also makes sense to sit there sometimes and take the star-potential starting QB or blue chip player that's staring you in the face instead of just making it a numbers game. See: Miles.

Yep, throwing crap against a wall would describe our draft strategy to a T

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

13 minutes ago, dawgdish said:

By your own wording, all of those "hits" are only, decent, capable, and ok. Good GMs also find superstars, and stars and very good starters once in a while, especially in overlooked guys. If all we ever do is find guys you need tepid adjectives to describe, we can amass an army of them and sill still never be anything more than an ok team. You'd think a bunch of Harvard degrees who drafted 4 WRs in one draft might have found one gem. Nope. That's why it also makes sense to sit there sometimes and take the star-potential starting QB or blue chip player that's staring you in the face instead of just making it a numbers game. See: Miles.

How many stars are you expecting from guys who've played two dozen games?

Most good players take some time to develop.

Schwartz is a great example, play was sporadic his first 3 years, played decently year 4 and years 5-6 have been very good.  Of course now he's in his prime and playing like it.  But Browns fans expect 2nd year WR's to be excelling with 7 QB's throwing them the ball (7 is the real number IIRC, in 24 games).

Good teams have 1st rounders that sit and learn their rookie year, we expect ours to be kicking azz and taking names.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

17 minutes ago, Rod Johnson said:

Yep, throwing crap against a wall would describe our draft strategy to a T

https://www.vox.com/2015/4/30/8516007/nfl-draft-economics

A good read for you.

[dawgdish]

2 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

How many stars are you expecting from guys who've played two dozen games?

Most good players take some time to develop.

Schwartz is a great example, play was sporadic his first 3 years, played decently year 4 and years 5-6 have been very good.  Of course now he's in his prime and playing like it.  But Browns fans expect 2nd year WR's to be excelling with 7 QB's throwing them the ball (7 is the real number IIRC, in 24 games).

Good teams have 1st rounders that sit and learn their rookie year, we expect ours to be kicking azz and taking names.

Maybe for an unpolished QB, but no team in today's NFL has that luxury (no front office has the patience). Guys like OBJ, Anquan Bolden, Andre Johnson etc didn't sit on the bench for a year to absorb how to catch the ball, they went out there from day one and looked like capable guys, then blossomed into superstars with experience. We've drafted a lot of guys, not a lot even look capable.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

2 minutes ago, dawgdish said:

Maybe for an unpolished QB, but no team in today's NFL has that luxury (no front office has the patience). Guys like OBJ, Anquan Bolden, Andre Johnson etc didn't sit on the bench for a year to absorb how to catch the ball, they went out there from day one and looked like capable guys, then blossomed into superstars with experience. We've drafted a lot of guys, not a lot even look capable.

Yes, they haven't drafted an elite WR yet.

Perhaps if we let him finish year two he may look promising.

A perennial pro bowler? Probably not.  But if that's your expectation for every 1st rounder, you're expectations are the problem.

Youre pointing out the minority, and also a few elite talents, not the typical NFL rookie.

[dawgdish]

6 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Yes, they haven't drafted an elite WR yet.

Perhaps if we let him finish year two he may look promising.

A perennial pro bowler? Probably not.  But if that's your expectation for every 1st rounder, you're expectations are the problem.

Youre pointing out the minority, and also a few elite talents, not the typical NFL rookie.

Like I said before, I'm expecting that if our strategy is to amass draft picks we, bust on some, hit on some OK ones, but also hit on some very good and great ones. What we've mostly done thus far is bust and hit on some OK ones (aside from Miles, and maybe Njoku). All the draft picks in the world won't help with Sashi and Berry evaluating the talent.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

4 minutes ago, dawgdish said:

Like I said before, I'm expecting that if our strategy is to amass draft picks we, bust on some, hit on some OK ones, but also hit on some very good and great ones. What we've mostly done thus far is bust and hit on some OK ones (aside from Miles, and maybe Njoku). All the draft picks in the world won't help with Sashi and Berry evaluating the talent.

So because they aren't very good or great after 23 or 7 games they won't ever be?

The quick reax and hottakez on this board are incredible.

This is a league dominated by guys on their second contracts and QB's in their 30's and we've got folks pissed rookies aren't "very good or great" before their first bye week??

[MWil23]

Here are my honest unfiltered thoughts, so bear with me:

1. Even though Wentz looks like a superstar QB, at the time our roster was a joke, and he was considered by everyone to be the #2 QB prospect in the draft, not the consensus #1. Throw in the fact that he played at North Dakota State, was a 2 year starter, and 23, and the HAUL THAT WE GOT, I don't blame the Browns and love their thought process behind it. Wentz hurts some, but I still understand what they were trying to do.

2. Refusing to address the WR/RB situation is unacceptable to me, but I'm also willing to give them more of a pass since they FINALLY have addressed the Front 7, which is looking very good. I'd gladly roll with our LBs, DLINE, and potential that we have in Miles.

3. I absolutely hated the trade back from 12 at the time and that hasn't changed. I was lambasted all offseason for my "Vince Young-like love" for Watson at QB. I also wasn't the biggest Peppers fan, but I haven't given up on him. He's still got a lot of potential and he's a box player, not a 35 yard off the line of scrimmage center fielder. However, if we draft Miles and Watson, those are arguably two guys that compare to the Raiders with Khalil Mack and Derek Carr...FRANCHISE CHANGERS. Some may believe that Watson will turn into Vince Young still, and I understand that argument, but I don't believe it for one second. For those that argue that he has a LOT more weapons (which he does), there is also a huge trade-off as his OL is GARBAGE and he's able to audible to shorter passes, make hot reads, and throw under pressure (not to mention scramble).

4. GREAT move trading up for Njoku

This year, they MUST address the QB position first and foremost, and after that the WR positions, and hopefully the RB position as well. I'd rather have a serviceable/average NFL RB for a couple of years while adding our legit QBOTF and some weapons at the WR positions, and then the RB later down the road.

That's JMHO

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

29 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

Here are my honest unfiltered thoughts, so bear with me:

1. Even though Wentz looks like a superstar QB, at the time our roster was a joke, and he was considered by everyone to be the #2 QB prospect in the draft, not the consensus #1. Throw in the fact that he played at North Dakota State, was a 2 year starter, and 23, and the HAUL THAT WE GOT, I don't blame the Browns and love their thought process behind it. Wentz hurts some, but I still understand what they were trying to do.

2. Refusing to address the WR/RB situation is unacceptable to me, but I'm also willing to give them more of a pass since they FINALLY have addressed the Front 7, which is looking very good. I'd gladly roll with our LBs, DLINE, and potential that we have in Miles.

3. I absolutely hated the trade back from 12 at the time and that hasn't changed. I was lambasted all offseason for my "Vince Young-like love" for Watson at QB. I also wasn't the biggest Peppers fan, but I haven't given up on him. He's still got a lot of potential and he's a box player, not a 35 yard off the line of scrimmage center fielder. However, if we draft Miles and Watson, those are arguably two guys that compare to the Raiders with Khalil Mack and Derek Carr...FRANCHISE CHANGERS. Some may believe that Watson will turn into Vince Young still, and I understand that argument, but I don't believe it for one second. For those that argue that he has a LOT more weapons (which he does), there is also a huge trade-off as his OL is GARBAGE and he's able to audible to shorter passes, make hot reads, and throw under pressure (not to mention scramble).

4. GREAT move trading up for Njoku

This year, they MUST address the QB position first and foremost, and after that the WR positions, and hopefully the RB position as well. I'd rather have a serviceable/average NFL RB for a couple of years while adding our legit QBOTF and some weapons at the WR positions, and then the RB later down the road.

That's JMHO

I think their hope was one of the 3 second year guys taken later would take some sort of step forward and become a viable 3rd option to add to Britt and Coleman.

Coleman has had some freak injuries, can't hate on him too much.

Britt has been an utter failure.

Throw some money at a starting WR and a decent reserve and add a couple rookies, including a 1st or 2nd rounder and the group will look totally different.

[matt27j]

When it comes to WR's the Browns haven't had a chance at one. Coleman was the best they had a shot at and got him. Njoku is the next closest thing to come along. Davis, Williams, and Ross this year but we had to take Myles. 

This franchise is unlike any other with the curses that seems to follow it around. Injuries to head cases to 3 first round centers and qbs. Driving with Kessler and freak injury to Thomas. Haslam, the FO, Hue were/are all on board with the plan that's easy to criticize because they know it's going to take something extreme to overcome such momentous negativity.

Putting this together like any other team isn't going to happen. 

No matter what happens at the QB position they've established enough talent and draft capital to be in a position to compete next year as long as they draft talented players with solid characters like they have been. Whether we load up on defense and constantly run on offense. Draft Barkley and make more plays that way. Or draft/sign a QB and spend the whole draft on offense.

One way or another it'll work out. That's what a few years of solid drafting does. An A player or two, a couple B's, and a bunch of C's. Just no D's or F's out of those 1st and 2nd rounders and you'll have yourself a team that if it doesn't have a QB it will be ready for one to come along.

[DaWg_LB.]

IMO they are building this team correcrtly.....why spend high draft assets on WR's when you dont have a QB to throw them the ball yet? AND your building your team to be a power running/lean on the Defense kind of team?

I think a LOT of the moves being made by the front office are going underrated....I saw 6 players that were talked about....IMO Ogbah has been one of the keys to our top 5 rated run D...he's not gotten the sacks numbers we wanted...but still...not to mention the Haul of Picks that keeps on giving....I think Derrick Kidred looks like an NFL starting SS and has been playing pretty well for us this year (and last season before he got hurt)...AND not to mention he got the Cardinals 2nd string MLB (Scooby Wright) and Our starting CB (Jamar Taylor....who has played well when healthy) with ONE 7th round pick....he also got BBC that year as an UDFA cut from Jax....and traded our Punter (it happened that year) for a 4th round pick we will see next season....that's getting out of a draft what you need for a total rebuild....AND getting Jamie Collins for a 3rd during the season.....

And everyone keeps getting on them for the Britt selection and letting Pryor walk....well Pryor wanted MORE than we gave Britt to stay.....and he is NOT earning what he got in Washington....I live in the area and trust me....they are not happy with what he is producing........

Folks also want to get on the Front office about letting Haden Walk.....and someone mentioned how he's been BALLING out for Pitts......in 7 start's he has 14 tkls, 1sak, 0TFL, 1int and 0 FF to go along with 4 PDF's.....IMO that is far from balling out IMO.......and with the FA pick up of Britt and the cutting of Haden....they dont give the front office credit for going out and getting Jason McCoruty who in 6 games has 24tkls, 3ints (including a pick-6), 9 PDF's and 2 FF's....NOW that is more along the lines of Ballling out IMO....

This front office is SOLID....one of the better ones in the NFL if you ask me......All I ask is that we examine the "Hits" as much as the "Misses"...