Browns fans: What do you think of this current regime?

[Aztec Hammer]

11 hours ago, Dogbite said:

Worst?

Josh McCown with youngsters Christian Hackenberg and Bryce Petty

Brian Hoyer. Did you catch that? Brian Hoyer with youngster C.J. Beathard

I don't much care for DeShone Kizer but even I would admit he has far more potential than any of those louzy names listed above. We have a bad QB room for sure but we don't have the worst QB situation in the league. You could even argue places like Arizona and Jacksonville are worse off because they have no young QB with any kind of upside. When Palmer is done they don't have anyone to groom like a Kizer.

You're banking on Kizer's supposed potential making us not the worst. Depends how one views Kizer I suppose.

I'm struggling to see past the cold hard facts. Our QBs are statistically the worst in the league and they have ZERO career wins.

[sdrawkcab321]

but at least we have that extra cap space  

 

[MWil23]

40 minutes ago, sdrawkcab321 said:

but at least we have that extra cap space  

 

Does that 1 pressure include the hit on Smith yesterday that he gave up 1 on 1 to one Khalil Mach, who bull rushed him and put him on his back?

But yes, ridiculously stupid decision not to resign or tag him.

[Dogbite]

2 hours ago, Aztec Hammer said:

You're banking on Kizer's supposed potential making us not the worst. Depends how one views Kizer I suppose.

I'm struggling to see past the cold hard facts. Our QBs are statistically the worst in the league and they have ZERO career wins.

So that means you are banking on Petty, Hackenberger annd Beathards supposed potential to make us the worst.

I don't even like Kizer, I will admitt he has far more potential and has already proven more than those turd buckets.

[Aztec Hammer]

2 minutes ago, Dogbite said:

So that means you are banking on Petty, Hackenberger annd Beathards supposed potential to make us the worst.

I don't even like Kizer, I will admitt he has far more potential and has already proven more than those turd buckets.

McCown has at least won three game this year. Hoyer has won before. We literally have zero career wins in our QB room. I think Kizer has more potential than the three you mentioned. That being said I believe all four of them will amount to little.

[Iamcanadian]

On 10/19/2017 at 5:59 AM, DizzyDean said:

Regarding Wentz, heinsight is always 20/20.  At the time of the draft he had good potential but tons of question marks as a prospect.

Also, you have to look at situation.  Had they taken him, the team surrounding him would have been even worse than what we have now (lookat all of the young talent that the trade led to that would not be here otherwise).  Proactively responding to the inevitable “but year this talent isn’t helping us win” counter.  They are young.  We will start seeing the fruits of the 2016 draft next year, and the fruits of the 2017 the year after, and they will be multiplied as they grow and gel together.  The approach we have taken is to load up our roster with very talented but very raw and very young talent.  Once we get the final few pieces and it starts to click, we should be very good for a very long time.  We are not being build for a one and done flash in the pam after renting some stars in the twilight of their careers.

In short, chances are had we taken Wentz, we would have ruined Wentz.  That would have been a completely wasted number 2 overall pick.

I really respect your ideas, but it is very rare that a true franchise QB has ever been ruined by having a weak team around him. As for Wentz, he was clearly the #2 or for some teams, the #1 prospect in the draft and the question marks were really only about level of play in college. He had everything else you look for in a franchise QB.

To try and rebuild a team without a franchise QB in place is actually quite difficult, once the franchise QB is in place, drafting is simple, you build an offense around the needs of that QB, usually drafting a solid LT and WR's to protect him and give him weapons, followed by a solid RB and suddenly, you are a powerful offense. then you go after your defense. Always fix one side of the ball at a time, don't try to fix everything in one draft and do not be afraid o draft more than one guy for each position. More #'s = a greater chance for success.

Without a franchise QB in place, teams are usually confused in drafting, because it is difficult to know exactly what you should be doing. If Sachi's plan was based on the solid crop of potential franchise QB's in the 2018 draft and that is why he drafted a lot of defense in the 2017 draft, then just maybe, he is smarter than I realized and had a plan that might have worked if Haslam hasn't taken him out of the planning and drafting loop with Peyton??? The only criticism then would be the quality of players he has drafted, because he is not a football guy and may had completely relied on his HC and scouts, not a wise thing to do based on past experiences. Your GM has to be an excellent talent appraiser for a franchise to succeed, being an excellent planner is just not good enough.

[Iamcanadian]

13 hours ago, H2ThaIzzo said:

The Colts are arguably the luckiest franchise ever when it comes to the timing of Manning's injury. It just happens to occur the year before one of the best QB prospects in the last 15 years will enter the draft.

Quote

They had their bombs at QB as well, remember Jeff George, but it did not stop them from trying again when Peyton was there for their pick. they simple followed the' Golden Rule' 'if you do not have a franchise QB, draft one ever chance you get till you get it right'. A rule we did not follow when we had a shot at Wentz???

13 hours ago, H2ThaIzzo said:

The Chargers were in an eerily similar situation as we are this year. The Chargers drafted Brees in round 2 in 2001, and at the time they drafted Rivers Brees had 29 td's to 31 interceptions for his career. They found themselves at the top of the draft board in 2004, and made their move. They also had some balls and drafted Eli after he said he wouldn't sign there, and flipped him into multiple players including Rivers and Merriman. 

Quote

The Chargers problems lay with their owner who hired a total incompetent HC in Norv Turner to be their HC. They have never recovered from that choice.

 

 

You reference that the Texans, Jags, Broncos (who actually won a Super Bowl, and did so with a bad Peyton Manning as QB) have won a Super Bowl because of x,y and z. However, The Colts with Luck haven't won one either. The Chargers with Rivers haven't won one.

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At least with Luck, the Colts were a contender to win a SB every year till he got hurt.

Quote

Wentz, at least to most, was never an equal caliber prospect to Luck, Rivers, Roethlisberger, etc. Sure, looking today it seems like he possibly has the makings to be very good, but I'm not going to look back at the trade we made and say we shouldn't have done it.

Sorry, but Wentz was drafted higher than Rivers and way higher than Rothlisberger. He was a better prospect than either of these 2 guys. Their teams drafted them and got franchise QB's, we had a shot and passed and are so far 1-21 moving toward 1-31, the worst record in the history of the NFL with absolutely no guarantee that we will find a franchise QB in the 2018 draft. We could easily pick the wrong guy as our scouting department has done little to impress me so far.

 

 

 

[Iamcanadian]

6 hours ago, MWil23 said:

Does that 1 pressure include the hit on Smith yesterday that he gave up 1 on 1 to one Khalil Mach, who bull rushed him and put him on his back?

But yes, ridiculously stupid decision not to resign or tag him.

Wow, Khahlil Mack, an All Pro put him on his back once, that's a sure sign of not being worth keeping??? Also, didn't KC almost win that game and last I looked had won a heck of a lot more games than we have???

[MWil23]

30 minutes ago, Iamcanadian said:

Wow, Khahlil Mack, an All Pro put him on his back once, that's a sure sign of not being worth keeping??? Also, didn't KC almost win that game and last I looked had won a heck of a lot more games than we have???

I asked that as a legitimate question. That's my whole point. If it DID include that, it means he basically played a PERFECT first 5 games, and the only hit he gave up was to an All Pro. Sorry that you can't follow my logic.

[DizzyDean]

59 minutes ago, Iamcanadian said:

I really respect your ideas, but it is very rare that a true franchise QB has ever been ruined by having a weak team around him. As for Wentz, he was clearly the #2 or for some teams, the #1 prospect in the draft and the question marks were really only about level of play in college. He had everything else you look for in a franchise QB.

To try and rebuild a team without a franchise QB in place is actually quite difficult, once the franchise QB is in place, drafting is simple, you build an offense around the needs of that QB, usually drafting a solid LT and WR's to protect him and give him weapons, followed by a solid RB and suddenly, you are a powerful offense. then you go after your defense. Always fix one side of the ball at a time, don't try to fix everything in one draft and do not be afraid o draft more than one guy for each position. More #'s = a greater chance for success.

Without a franchise QB in place, teams are usually confused in drafting, because it is difficult to know exactly what you should be doing. If Sachi's plan was based on the solid crop of potential franchise QB's in the 2018 draft and that is why he drafted a lot of defense in the 2017 draft, then just maybe, he is smarter than I realized and had a plan that might have worked if Haslam hasn't taken him out of the planning and drafting loop with Peyton??? The only criticism then would be the quality of players he has drafted, because he is not a football guy and may had completely relied on his HC and scouts, not a wise thing to do based on past experiences. Your GM has to be an excellent talent appraiser for a franchise to succeed, being an excellent planner is just not good enough.

Not that rare.  Tim couch comes to mind.  The nfl history is a graveyard of high picked QBs that busted.  It’s easily fathomed that many busted due to situation that they come into.

[Thomas5737]

6 hours ago, MWil23 said:

I asked that as a legitimate question. That's my whole point. If it DID include that, it means he basically played a PERFECT first 5 games, and the only hit he gave up was to an All Pro. Sorry that you can't follow my logic.

Pardon

[sdrawkcab321]

great vet signing nerds. I expect your letters of resignation by tomorrow. 

[Kiwibrown]

we need a new WR scouting team. this is very damming. 

The Profootballfocus (PFF) ratings aren't gospel. But many times their ratings match the eye test. PFF rated 110 receivers, and the Browns receivers rank 102nd (Ricardo Louis) 106th (Rashard Higgins) and 108th (Kenny Britt). from Terry Pluto at the plains dealer. 

That is catastrophically bad. 

I don't think Louis has been that bad recently. 
Higgins has sucked bar one game. 

 

I am surpised Kenny britt isn't lower. far lower. 

[DizzyDean]

I don’t remember which thread I posted it in, but regarding my connect the dots Manning and Harbaugh post.  All of a sudden rumors are swirling around Andrew Luck.  The harbaugh connection is there.  We have the resources (it will be way too expensive for me, I wouldn’t do it), but what does everyone think about bringing in manning in an executive roll, harbaugh hc, and luck at QB?  

 

Luck scares the crap out of me that he will never be the same again after the shoulder injury, he will cost a King’s ransom in draft picks, and has a monster contract already.

 

i don’t really want manning, I would love harbaugh if we can keep Williams and his staff, dont really want Luck.

 

its an interesting thing to speculate about though.

[sdrawkcab321]

36 minutes ago, DizzyDean said:

I don’t remember which thread I posted it in, but regarding my connect the dots Manning and Harbaugh post.  All of a sudden rumors are swirling around Andrew Luck.  The harbaugh connection is there.  We have the resources (it will be way too expensive for me, I wouldn’t do it), but what does everyone think about bringing in manning in an executive roll, harbaugh hc, and luck at QB?  

 

Luck scares the crap out of me that he will never be the same again after the shoulder injury, he will cost a King’s ransom in draft picks, and has a monster contract already.

 

i don’t really want manning, I would love harbaugh if we can keep Williams and his staff, dont really want Luck.

 

its an interesting thing to speculate about though.

What luck rumors??