Browns fans: What do you think of this current regime?

[buno67]

44 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

I suppose it's possible, it would be a sign that we need a new coach if true, but I don't buy any of it. Hogan looked the best of our QBs when he played this year and we needed a performance from our QB that could put points on the board and limit turnovers. Hogan failed, but I don't think that was the plan.

QB has been a huge reason why we are winless, a change of QB was a good decision. It didn't work out. I imagine our combined QB passer rating as a team is lower than any team in 60 years. If we convert red zone possessions into points and did not turn the ball over, we are on pace to throw 38 interceptions this season, then we compete in a lot of these games.

When has Hogan looked the best when he played this year? When he came in during injury time or when Hue pulled Kizer to save him. I am not judging a QB going up against a defense that did not prepare or game plan for that said QB. Its like the game when Hoyer blew his knee out and Weeden came it and looked pretty good. Its because the Bills were not prepare for it. Yeah Hogan didnt look good on his own but Texans took away anything that made him look good whenever he came into the game earlier in the season.

Yeah Hogan put points on the board but a majority of those points came when he first came into the game, so defenses had no idea what to expect from him. Kizer is still the best QB on the roster. 

 

 

[candyman93]

If I’m Haslam, I have zero reason to trust the guys in place right now. They’ve shown ZERO progress. Hell I’d call it a regression. Guys don’t even play hard.

 

Haslam is NOT letting these guys trade down again and pass on a QB like Darnold or Rosen. The front office has burned up any “passes” they were granted.

[Thomas5737]

1 hour ago, buno67 said:

When has Hogan looked the best when he played this year? When he came in during injury time or when Hue pulled Kizer to save him. I am not judging a QB going up against a defense that did not prepare or game plan for that said QB. Its like the game when Hoyer blew his knee out and Weeden came it and looked pretty good. Its because the Bills were not prepare for it. Yeah Hogan didnt look good on his own but Texans took away anything that made him look good whenever he came into the game earlier in the season.

Yeah Hogan put points on the board but a majority of those points came when he first came into the game, so defenses had no idea what to expect from him. Kizer is still the best QB on the roster. 

 

 

So Kizer's first game they didn't have tape on him so that game should be discounted by your theory. That leaves him with 4 games with passer ratings of: 27.3, 50.1, 43.5 and 38.1. That means he isn't better than anyone. You could throw every pass straight into the ground and have a 39.58 rating.

Kessler is by far the best QB on the roster. He doesn't fit our system and is limited with his arm but his worst game last year is competitive with the best games our QBs have had this year. QBR is stupid but with Kizer's TD runs his number gets inflated to 15.3 while Kessler was about 3 times higher last year. Saying Kizer is better than Kessler with what we have seen so far is like saying Ryan Mallett is better than Alex Smith.

[buno67]

13 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

So Kizer's first game they didn't have tape on him so that game should be discounted by your theory. That leaves him with 4 games with passer ratings of: 27.3, 50.1, 43.5 and 38.1. That means he isn't better than anyone. You could throw every pass straight into the ground and have a 39.58 rating.

Kessler is by far the best QB on the roster. He doesn't fit our system and is limited with his arm but his worst game last year is competitive with the best games our QBs have had this year. QBR is stupid but with Kizer's TD runs his number gets inflated to 15.3 while Kessler was about 3 times higher last year. Saying Kizer is better than Kessler with what we have seen so far is like saying Ryan Mallett is better than Alex Smith.

They didnt have tape on him? Pretty sure preseason put plenty of things on tape to give you an idea of Kizer. Steelers had plenty of time to prep for Kizer. You look at the two times Hogan play this year prior to his start, no one thought he would play because of a migraine or Kizer being pulled. Those defenses didnt prepare for him.

I am not sitting hear pounding my chest saying Kizer is the worlds greatest QB. I just saying he has more potential than Hogan and that Hogan isnt anything special. I also wonder what his QB rating would be if his WRs wernt dropping passes, werent dropping passes that turned into INTs either.

Kessler is marginally better .If he was he would of practiced like it or performed like it. Its not like Hue didnt give Kessler any chance, dude was just straight garbage in camp and it carried over to the preseason game. 

Also Kessler had a little more to work with last year. I really wonder what a Kizer and Pryor connection would of looked like. 

[pnies20]

The really ridiculous thing is if we had a good QB we'd prolly be 3-3.

[OhioG]

I think we are an average QB and #1 WR away from being competitive so lets keep Hue and the crew for 1 more year

[H2ThaIzzo]

13 hours ago, Rod Johnson said:

You guys are too enamored by the idea you can tank your way to success in the NFL.  Our problem was never that we didn't have high/enough picks, our problem has been blowing the opportunity to capitalize on our picks.  Good teams prioritize winning and still improve their team through the the draft, by never winning players never gain faith in what the coaches are trying to do and eventually the regime has to be overhauled.

Our young team has been getting worse on a week by week basis not improving.  Realistically Hue will be 2-30 his first two seasons, that will be a death sentence, no reason you can't be better than 1-15 after 2 years.

Our problem Sunday was we had a QB that actually did a decent job of reading the defense, but doesn't have the ability to make the throws. His sideline throw that was Joseph's 2nd int wasn't a throw that Hogan can make, the receiver didn't run the cleanest route, but Hogan read the defense well. He actually read the defense well in the INT that was returned for a touchdown too, the problem is he floated the pass right to the corner. had he hit Johnson on target, it's an easy first down. So we have one QB who can make all the throws but can't read the defenses yet, and another that can read defenses but can't throw. Thats why Kizer had to sit. He needed to be able to see the game and watch defenses move around and analyze how to read them and break them down. I don't know if a week is enough time to improve that from vision on the sidelines to vision on the field, but I hope it helps some. This team needs a QB. plan and simple. having a QB wins us a game week one. Hell not allowing a punt to be blocked for a TD wins us week one's game. We beat the Jets if we have a capable QB playing. Hell even the Ravens game. We had what, 3 turnovers in Baltimore's territory?

[dawgdish]

1 hour ago, candyman93 said:

If I’m Haslam, I have zero reason to trust the guys in place right now. They’ve shown ZERO progress. Hell I’d call it a regression. Guys don’t even play hard.

 

Haslam is NOT letting these guys trade down again and pass on a QB like Darnold or Rosen. The front office has burned up any “passes” they were granted.

If I'm Haslam, I'm seriously doubting my move to put the front office in the Harvard salary cap guy's hands instead of an actual football person.

[DizzyDean]

12 minutes ago, dawgdish said:

If I'm Haslam, I'm seriously doubting my move to put the front office in the Harvard salary cap guy's hands instead of an actual football person.

Not I, I love what they have done, it just has not translated into wins yet.  We are not far away at all.  We need a franchise QB, we need a do it all #1 WR, we need a very good OC, and probably an upgrade at RB.  A couple of big name FAs next year, maybe a Jamie Collins type trade, a good draft in which we focus on those areas early and often, then BPA after, along with our young guys on our front 7 on D getting experience, along with our young WRs and TEs doing the same, maybe a little roster work in the secondary, and we are a very good team.

PS

and fix the kicker position, we screwed the pooch by choosing Gonzo this off season.  The vet was much better.

[Thomas5737]

1 hour ago, buno67 said:

They didnt have tape on him? Pretty sure preseason put plenty of things on tape to give you an idea of Kizer. Steelers had plenty of time to prep for Kizer. You look at the two times Hogan play this year prior to his start, no one thought he would play because of a migraine or Kizer being pulled. Those defenses didnt prepare for him.

I am not sitting hear pounding my chest saying Kizer is the worlds greatest QB. I just saying he has more potential than Hogan and that Hogan isnt anything special. I also wonder what his QB rating would be if his WRs wernt dropping passes, werent dropping passes that turned into INTs either.

Kessler is marginally better .If he was he would of practiced like it or performed like it. Its not like Hue didnt give Kessler any chance, dude was just straight garbage in camp and it carried over to the preseason game. 

Also Kessler had a little more to work with last year. I really wonder what a Kizer and Pryor connection would of looked like. 

Kessler started 0 preseason games, what kind of supporting class do you think he had in those games? He still had a near 90 rating, 88. something I believe. If you don't even get to play with the 1's in preseason how can you really say he had a chance? Kessler had Cam Erving and Pastzor blocking for him last year. I'd rather have this years line without Pryor if it were up to me. Pryor had 144 yards in Kessler's first start last year, he has 209 yards in 5 games this year. I'm not sure who made who better.

[HH650]

2 hours ago, candyman93 said:

If I’m Haslam, I have zero reason to trust the guys in place right now. They’ve shown ZERO progress. Hell I’d call it a regression. Guys don’t even play hard.

 

Haslam is NOT letting these guys trade down again and pass on a QB like Darnold or Rosen. The front office has burned up any “passes” they were granted.

This. No more need be said. 

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

9 hours ago, dawgdish said:

If I'm Haslam, I'm seriously doubting my move to put the front office in the Harvard salary cap guy's hands instead of an actual football person.

Cuz actual football people are the answer?

What were Savage, Kokinis, Mangini, Farmer, Holmgren, Heckert, Davis, etc?

[buno67]

13 hours ago, dawgdish said:

If I'm Haslam, I'm seriously doubting my move to put the front office in the Harvard salary cap guy's hands instead of an actual football person.

There is no evidence that actually football people would of done a better job. Browns have done that since the rebirth. I don’t care who is in the front office.  I don’t see it being any better when the current regime is doing a much needed complete rebuild. Slapping together a couple vets on a poor constructed team to win 5 or 6 games wouldn’t of been worth it. That has been the plan since 99. They have done that and have lucked into a season of 7 wins or more what like 3 times. 

They need to trust the process and go through with the rebuilding. The regime might now see the payoff but this is needed

[Mastercheddaar]

16 hours ago, candyman93 said:

If I’m Haslam, I have zero reason to trust the guys in place right now. They’ve shown ZERO progress. Hell I’d call it a regression. Guys don’t even play hard.

 

Haslam is NOT letting these guys trade down again and pass on a QB like Darnold or Rosen. The front office has burned up any “passes” they were granted.

I see merit in what you said but we have had football guys in the mix and they did nothing. We have tried everything BUT sitting back and letting a coach try to assemble something here. Lets face it, the only seat hotter than our starting QB is our coach's. 

That being said, it was Sashi that gave Hue Britt instead of Pryor, Kizer/Hogan/Brockie instead of McCown, and the practice squad all stars instead of actual veteran wide outs. 

Money ball seemed to hit on Garrett though. Plus I have liked his O-line choices so far. AND last year's (2016) draft is looking pretty good (not instant all pros but good solid starting players for picks.) 

That is all

Mastercheddaar

[Iamcanadian]

On 10/14/2017 at 12:55 AM, H2ThaIzzo said:

I don't really agree with much of your post. Jimmy bought the Browns in 2012. In the 13 years prior to him purchasing the team, we had one playoff appearance and another winning season. He supposedly had a solid duo of Holmgren and Heckert running the franchise that he was inheriting from Lerner. However, those bozos not only drafted badly (Richardson and Weeden, etc.), Holmgren couldn't even beat Jimmy to a scheduled meeting when Jimmy was coming in from out of town and Mike was residing 30 minutes from headquarters. Firing Chud so fast was a bad decision, unless you're replacing him with a proven guy, which we didn't. Farmer, at the time of his promotion, was one of the guys pegged as the next big thing of front office management. Then we found out he was lazy and didn't interview players, didn't attend pro days in person, etc. 

 

Ogbah has been a legit player and developed nicely. He has been a force against the run and is developing his pass rushing skills. Shon Coleman has developed into a pretty reliable RT for us. Schobert has shown flashes of major potential at LB for us. Kindred is starting and is a staple in the run defense for us. Garrett wasn't a no brainer because even though he was the best prospect, how many people were bringing up the QB issue and starting to call for us to take one of the QB's first? Njoku has 3 touchdowns already, Ogunjobi when he gets on the field is always making plays, and the rest are still rookies, so let's see how they progress. 

 

I think you're being a little too harsh on the regime that inherited the mess. They have done a good job at building up draft picks, rebuilding the team makeup, and are trying to set up the future. We have salary cap room, we have draft picks, and yes, we have some good youth infusion on the team. We will be able to pick the best players available and sign some key free agents. You said it yourself, Jimmy needs to stop firing people so quickly and let them build. Hell I'm pissed too and I was ready to see Hue go after the dud against Cincy, but then I let my emotions settle and realize this is going to take time.  don't want it to, but it's got to. How many wins do we have if we don't have the red zone turnovers? At worst, we beat Pittsburgh week 1 and we beat NYJ last week. 2-3 would have us in 2nd place in the division one game back. Two plays out of the entire season go our way and the entire outlook is altered. 

Are we looking at the same Browns, I do fully agree that Lerner was a total mess, but what have we done since he left, 1-16 last year and likely 0-16 this year. Our new owner inherited a team that won 7 games and it has all been downhill ever since. Our drafts for the last 2 seasons have not produced game changers which every team needs to become a winner. Our new owner insisted on drafting Manziel and look how that turned out and he then blamed the FO for it and fired them. Our new FO then broke the 'Golden Rule of drafting, which has been around since I became a draftnik 65 years ago'. 'Never pass on a potential franchise QB if you get an opportunity to draft one, because you never know when you will get another opportunity to draft one'. We passed on Wentz for picks and broke that rule. Either, they thought they would try an untried route and hope for the best, or they did not think Wentz would be a franchise QB, either way, they come out looking like they do not understand how to build a franchise or judge talent.

Sure, Garrett will likely be a game changer, but other than him, I am not seeing a whole lot of talent coming out from the draft and considering we had the #1 pick in each round, that is not promising. Your GM and scouts are either talented drafters or they are not and if they are not, then all the picks in the world will not matter. It is up to our owner to hire a talented FO and for that FO to hire a talented HC and scouts and so far, what are the results, not too promising IMO.

Right now, we are the laughing butt of jokes around the NFL, other teams GM's love our picks, because it leaves better picks for them and they love trading with us and well they should. Philly is now a contender for a SB appearance based on a trade with us. Atlanta got Julius Jones in a trade with us and went to the SB. We appear to be a totally incompetent franchise run by a useless owner who cannot hire talent, because he would not recognize it if it hit him in the face. I was brought up to be a Brown's fan in the Jimmy Brown era, yes, that's how old I am, but this owner is enough to make me puke at the thought of what we have become, because I see absolutely no hope for our future and that really saddens me the most. Teams rarely overcome bad owners, we saw that with Lerner and now we are faced with this happening all over. It looks like we are the new jinxed team of the NFL replacing the Lions under William Ford and Ford ran the Lions into the ground for 50 years. This is what bad owners bring to their team, UGH!!!!

Sorry to be so pessimistic, but at my age, it means I may never get to see a decent Brown's team again and I hate to go out with that thought.