Covid-19 News/Discussion

[JohnChimpo]

10 minutes ago, G said:

Excellent post and I agree so I do need to watch that because I think civil discussion is needed. However I also understand human behavior of both myself and others. I need to take more PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY so that I may continue in the discussion. Was warned I'll probably get banned but that doesn't make things better. It's also not my problem because I'm the target audience of who they are trying to convince so insults and ignoring does the opposite. It's been less than 24 hours and this thread is not only covid related but I think a needed discussion of society and how people interact. I don't have social media except this (if it's SM) and Youtube. I think social media has broken down people's ability to communicate. Unless 'Communication' (my definition: The ability to send and receive signals so that the message is understood) isn't the desire as much as it's something else...

I think this thread is the most sensitive because life and death are actually part of the conversation. That said, I’m no mod, but the only way I could see you getting banned is by breaking forum rules.

[G]

4 hours ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

There's just so much we didn't - and still don't - know.

This is why many who are skeptical are willing to wait. However being pressured/threatened with things (loss of opportunity) gets the exact opposite result. Also can have an undesired consequence of what is trying to be avoided. It's about TRUST and there are people in both political parties who aren't complying. However one side moreso than the other and if you don't factor their lack of trust with those pushing it, then you don't get the desired result and probably never will. Hence people are starting to realize we will be 'living with it' and moving on with life. Hopefully happier and healthier than today but when you don't allow people top go in a gym in NYC if they are not vaccinated then you are putting their life at risk with policy and I think lawsuits will follow because it's the makers who are protected not cities/states that think you can take away opportunity and it not be seen as discrimination in a court of law. 

[G]

3 hours ago, vike daddy said:

not to mention his mention of the recall effort of California's governor.

oops, i mentioned it.

I'm in the gum and easy to find. Lets talk face to face. The gym has asked me not to because I already held my own in a heated discussion that ended well I think. We both listened and just see things differently but the problem was the tension it brought to the whole gym. So shortly after two people started yelling at each other because she could hear his music. She found it offensive and he asked if she could workout. She said she could then he said STFU so I can too. So I brought an energy into a situation that others then feed off of and it esclated higher than my discussion. I don't like to 'protest' as I see it as a negative. I'd much rather 'support' something I believe in which I see as positive. A little something I learned studying Mother Theresa. Though I do not share her religious beliefs I do respect her as a person and currently pwny has also earned my respect. I don't care if I earn respect for myself because I'm good as I am. It's people like me that you want to do something so I'd say you should follow pwny's example or just get iggy with it. LOL

[G]

4 hours ago, ET80 said:

That's every vaccination, though - for any virus. Even with this one, you knew that the effectiveness was 90% - which leaves a 10% chance. There are people in that 10% who will get the virus.

That's every vaccination as well - the flu vaccine is a yearly shot, it's not like the one flu shot you got six years ago is still effective right now, y'know?

Much like the flu, even if I get vaccinated for it - I can still get it and I can still spread it. It's not the most likely outcome, but it IS an outcome to be aware of as we move forward.

 

Things will change at times, we'll have to roll with those changes when they arise.

Good reply. 

The first part I honestly don't think 'breakthrough' is that 10%. It could be but it also could be a shot is needed every 4-6 months which I'll never do. The vaccines I'm willing to take are usually one or two and done. Tetanus shots I'll get every 10 years because the risk/reward is worth it IMO. So there are exceptions I'm willing to make. 

I don't get the flu shot and it's because of my experience when I have has almost always been worse than the decades when I never got them. So personal experience has directed me there and the one time I allowed my job to pressure me to do it (or wear a mask lol) I got the flu twice and it came out in the news that the shot was only 20 something percent effective taht year and I never had heard of effectiveness til then. 

The last two sentences just confirms what I said that triggered some here. The difference is I accepted it a year and a half ago and they won't which is fine because the end result will happen like it or not. 

 

[G]

38 minutes ago, JohnChimpo said:

I think this thread is the most sensitive because life and death are actually part of the conversation. That said, I’m no mod, but the only way I could see you getting banned is by breaking forum rules.

Yes and unfortuately I came in to ask pwny some questions and explain my hesitation and to hear their repose to working through that.  I wanted to catch up on the posts since I first posted and at some point to go back and read the whole thing. However I got distracted with those who talk about me but not to me. Yet I'm the 'troll' LOL Thank you for quoting as that always deserves my attention and respect. 😁

EDIT: I also really liked ET's response to another and gave a little info of why I'm not vaccinated and ET has always had my respect from before covid and always will even if we disagree because I know who he was as a poster before the covidworld

Edited August 8, 2021 by G

[JohnChimpo]

3 minutes ago, G said:

Yes and unfortuately I came in to ask pwny some questions and explain my hesitation and to hear their repose to working through that.  I wanted to catch up on the posts since I first posted and at some point to go back and read the whole thing. However I got distracted with those who talk about me but not to me. Yet I'm the 'troll' LOL Thank you for quoting as that always deserves my attention and respect. 😁

I know others said it, but I don’t think you’re a troll. Not everyone in this thread thinks the same way. I like to read posts from different perspectives.

[G]

13 hours ago, pwny said:

I can't seem to find the Excellent post that I quoted and I came in here to hear your thoughts but got distracted. Maybe it's 'iggy' time and if so I understand that but you have my respect and I am listening even when you're not replying to me. 

So the REASON WHY I'M HERE is I have til September 30th to 'change my mind' if I want to stay in California and work in my field. Healthcare...I'm so good at what I do I have people I work with talking about voting the only way to stop this. I can't mention politics here but from the state and what's happening two weeks before the healthcare mandate most should figure it out. Now do I want a specific result. Yes I do because if you go after my job I WILL go after your's. However I also want people to make INFORMED DECISIONS and know why they do what they do. 

So I'm already burnt out and clogging the board. I've got a few weeks so I'm not going anywhere. So for those who read understand this, (see Communication) it will get more clogged if you refer and don't directly talk. I'm not 'just a troll' and probably influence more people in real life than you'd expect. I lead by example but I could manipulate if I so desired. 

[JonStark]

1 hour ago, G said:

This is why many who are skeptical are willing to wait. However being pressured/threatened with things (loss of opportunity) gets the exact opposite result. Also can have an undesired consequence of what is trying to be avoided. It's about TRUST and there are people in both political parties who aren't complying. However one side moreso than the other and if you don't factor their lack of trust with those pushing it, then you don't get the desired result and probably never will. Hence people are starting to realize we will be 'living with it' and moving on with life. Hopefully happier and healthier than today but when you don't allow people top go in a gym in NYC if they are not vaccinated then you are putting their life at risk with policy and I think lawsuits will follow because it's the makers who are protected not cities/states that think you can take away opportunity and it not be seen as discrimination in a court of law. 

I agree with the pressure/threatening not being the optimal way to encourage vaccination but once the FDA fully approves it, there is no reason not to get it (aside of specific medical reasons). Once that happens, it's just like any other vaccine that is required to do things. Hospital workers have always needed to have certain vaccines. My wife has to have a whole slew of them to work in the animal facility at her job.

I'm very familiar with how the FDA works and they will always work at their own pace and would never jeopardize fully approving something that could come back to bite them. 

[Xenos]

49 minutes ago, JonStark said:

I agree with the pressure/threatening not being the optimal way to encourage vaccination but once the FDA fully approves it, there is no reason not to get it (aside of specific medical reasons). Once that happens, it's just like any other vaccine that is required to do things. Hospital workers have always needed to have certain vaccines. My wife has to have a whole slew of them to work in the animal facility at her job.

I'm very familiar with how the FDA works and they will always work at their own pace and would never jeopardize fully approving something that could come back to bite them. 

The problem is we’ve tried to be nice, including providing a variety of different financial incentives. Unfortunately waving the carrot didn’t help the vaccination rate. Sometimes you have to use the stick especially when it’s a choice that not only affect yourself but others as well. As an example, imagine if we didn’t have tough laws and punishment for drunk driving.

[G]

1 hour ago, JonStark said:

I agree with the pressure/threatening not being the optimal way to encourage vaccination but once the FDA fully approves it, there is no reason not to get it (aside of specific medical reasons). Once that happens, it's just like any other vaccine that is required to do things. Hospital workers have always needed to have certain vaccines. My wife has to have a whole slew of them to work in the animal facility at her job.

I'm very familiar with how the FDA works and they will always work at their own pace and would never jeopardize fully approving something that could come back to bite them. 

FDA approved opioids yet the companies that make an FDA approved drug are currently being sued by governments. Yet I can't sue the companies that make covid shots?!? That is another thing that creates a lack of trust.

FDA approval will help companies push mandates but there's a serious worker shortage and an entitled society that was allowed to hide and get paid for many the past year and a half. I worked, kept business going and even asked my job before vaccines were approved for emergency use if they would mandate it. Even if the governor mandated it and the CEO said 'NO' just strongly encourage. I already was setting them up for a potiential lawsuit because I would have quit then and I was working 80-100 hours a week to keep the thing afloat. So it's going to get interesting because I don't have to win. I'll get a settlement or just create enough noise that other companies employees follow my lead. I've already requested my religious exemption and will be documenting all this too. If the company stands up for employees rights too choose then nothing happens. I've also forwarded the preemptive email to other unvaccinated employees in case I leave. Don't need a 'union' if you can close a business and they have to send their clients elsewhere. Funny thing is I don't play chess but one might think so. 

Yes work places will easily force new employees to be vaccinated to be hired but current employees may have a discrimination case on their hands. Hence religious exemption requested. 

What doesn't help is I just read an article on Yahoo about a 42 year old fitness fanatic who 'was beating himself up and wished he had done it (vaccine) When you read the article it actually says he DIDN'T SAY IT. His family admits he didn't say it but the story's headline is written to make one think that. Advertising, Marketing and PR classes I took for fun in 2017 taught me al LOT about media manipulation. Now most just see headlines and don't read the story but if you do it's clearly MISINFORMATION to push a desired agenda to get vaccinated even if you're healthy. I'm currently looking at the British Medical Journal study of 150 min of exercise a week and not just a reduced risk of symptoms but of infection. I don't exercise with a mask as much but even with a mask I'm right around 150 a week and more than twice that without a mask. I'm still looking into it so I won't speak much about it yet. 

Thank you for the quote and another thing to add that if I absolutely have to get a shot at some point I would rather wait for NVAX's shot that is currently in PII testing. So I could honestly say that if the 3 current ones had approval and I had to choose at gun point...I'd say I'll take the unapproved NVAX and be a test subject before I'd take the other's or Astra Zenica (sp) J&J was the one I wanted until a few people I know had a rough go with it and it was worse than people I know who had covid. 

I'm also looking into making a fake card because of the push and I'd rather just be honest but that is something that will happen. I also blocked my phones ability to 'update' when it all started because I knew the companies would install contact tracing on updates and I was right. They said you can opt out but I never wanted it on the products I bought from them. I know that sounds 'conspiricy theoryish but I'm just really good at seeing patterns and predicting behaviors. I was right about that  as I'm I-phoned in low 13's and currently it's 14.7 So my gym app doesn't work so I deleted it. The customer is always right and if you want my information then I expect compensation. LOL 

YIKES re-reading I do sound NUTZZZ lol 

 

If you're vaccinated. I'm curious as to/if you were concerned about long term effects as we are going through 'real world' results? So 7 months in and I was offered it right away and waited. As more stuff comes out I'm happy I resisted up until this point. Now that it could possibly shift my entire life I have to look at how I'll feel afterwards doing something I didn't want to. I've done that before and it didn't go well. 

[G]

6 hours ago, ET80 said:

 

It's a two way street - they make decisions based on a perceived compliance of a request. If that compliance isn't met, it changes the parameters - in this particular case, for the worse.

That sounds more like politics than science to be honest. The people I know who are in the political field will actually reply differently and vote differently than what they believe to be perceived a specific way if something would automatically pass. That is part of the problem not either side but both sides playing 'politics' 

Would you agree with that?

If not what about people's need for 'Certainty' (Anthony Robbins) and using Maslov's Hierarchy of Needs Physiological and Safety tiers? That by 'changing the parameters' you're actually causing more harm than good overall? 

Personally the problem I've had in Cali and why I'm the way I am currently is because things change all the time. We lock down tight abd bad things still happened. We open a little and people feel a little better. We open more and allow outdoor dining only to close it down again. Then gyms are allowed outdoors (they sued) and because of that lawsuit are now deemed 'essential' so can't close again without consequences. Yet Florida opened early and said THIS IS NEVER HAPPENING AGAIN and they did what they said. They gave 'certainty' so people could make decisions and plan accordingly. I've been taking pics of cases/deaths almost every week up until the Super Bowl in Florida because I knew cases would surge because they were open and everyone would travel there. Same reason Vegas is exploding. California didn't follow the CDC advice for weeks and then when it goes the direction they wanted they jumped on it.  Same science but different reaction. We weren't even 100% open til recently and with school about to start our cases will explode too. It's going to spread and as vaccinated get tested the breakthrough will be higher than they expect. You can see that in DC already. Small size but very public so hard to hide. 

[squire12]

28 minutes ago, G said:

FDA approved opioids yet the companies that make an FDA approved drug are currently being sued by governments. Yet I can't sue the companies that make covid shots?!? That is another thing that creates a lack of trust.

FDA approval will help companies push mandates but there's a serious worker shortage and an entitled society that was allowed to hide and get paid for many the past year and a half. I worked, kept business going and even asked my job before vaccines were approved for emergency use if they would mandate it. Even if the governor mandated it and the CEO said 'NO' just strongly encourage. I already was setting them up for a potiential lawsuit because I would have quit then and I was working 80-100 hours a week to keep the thing afloat. So it's going to get interesting because I don't have to win. I'll get a settlement or just create enough noise that other companies employees follow my lead. I've already requested my religious exemption and will be documenting all this too. If the company stands up for employees rights too choose then nothing happens. I've also forwarded the preemptive email to other unvaccinated employees in case I leave. Don't need a 'union' if you can close a business and they have to send their clients elsewhere. Funny thing is I don't play chess but one might think so. 

You work in Healthcare and are sounding like you are trying to do some level of harm to your organization and its ability to provide care to people.   That strikes me as really odd.

28 minutes ago, G said:

Yes work places will easily force new employees to be vaccinated to be hired but current employees may have a discrimination case on their hands. Hence religious exemption requested.

Do you have a valid religious exemption case that would have existed prior to 2019?

28 minutes ago, G said:

 

What doesn't help is I just read an article on Yahoo about a 42 year old fitness fanatic who 'was beating himself up and wished he had done it (vaccine) When you read the article it actually says he DIDN'T SAY IT. His family admits he didn't say it but the story's headline is written to make one think that. Advertising, Marketing and PR classes I took for fun in 2017 taught me al LOT about media manipulation. Now most just see headlines and don't read the story but if you do it's clearly MISINFORMATION to push a desired agenda to get vaccinated even if you're healthy.

Getting/siting  information from a Yahoo article seems like a big stretch on credibility.

28 minutes ago, G said:

 

I'm currently looking at the British Medical Journal study of 150 min of exercise a week and not just a reduced risk of symptoms but of infection. I don't exercise with a mask as much but even with a mask I'm right around 150 a week and more than twice that without a mask. I'm still looking into it so I won't speak much about it yet. 

Thank you for the quote and another thing to add that if I absolutely have to get a shot at some point I would rather wait for NVAX's shot that is currently in PII testing. So I could honestly say that if the 3 current ones had approval and I had to choose at gun point...I'd say I'll take the unapproved NVAX and be a test subject before I'd take the other's or Astra Zenica (sp) J&J was the one I wanted until a few people I know had a rough go with it and it was worse than people I know who had covid. 

I'm also looking into making a fake card because of the push and I'd rather just be honest but that is something that will happen. I also blocked my phones ability to 'update' when it all started because I knew the companies would install contact tracing on updates and I was right. They said you can opt out but I never wanted it on the products I bought from them. I know that sounds 'conspiricy theoryish but I'm just really good at seeing patterns and predicting behaviors. I was right about that  as I'm I-phoned in low 13's and currently it's 14.7 So my gym app doesn't work so I deleted it. The customer is always right and if you want my information then I expect compensation. LOL 

YIKES re-reading I do sound NUTZZZ lol 

...mmm, yup on that last part

28 minutes ago, G said:

 

If you're vaccinated. I'm curious as to/if you were concerned about long term effects as we are going through 'real world' results? So 7 months in and I was offered it right away and waited. As more stuff comes out I'm happy I resisted up until this point. Now that it could possibly shift my entire life I have to look at how I'll feel afterwards doing something I didn't want to. I've done that before and it didn't go well. 

Vaccinated, yes.  Worried about long term effects, nope.

[G]

6 hours ago, ramssuperbowl99 said:

I agree with you that scientific messaging should be better, and the pandemic has highlighted the need to have someone that understands medicine, sociology, and public policy. 

 

 

 

At some level, the CDC is playing a game they can't win.

I'd really like to see that position to be honest. That I think would help install confidence. The local public health officer here was locking us down but the local sheriff stood up after a while because self deletion way surpassed covid deaths at first where I live. Even though it didn't get the results wanted right away at least the new 'seat at the table' had more than just the science as their focus.

 

CDC has lost a lot of credibility in many peoples eyes. Yes some total BS stuff being spread, some past no-no's with specific communities long ago and some stuff they did on their own, which won't help if/when something more deadly comes along. 

[G]

4 hours ago, G said:

I'm in the gym and easy to find. Lets talk face to face. The gym has asked me not to because I already held my own in a heated discussion that ended well I think. We both listened and just see things differently but the problem was the tension it brought to the whole gym. So shortly after two people started yelling at each other because she could hear his music. She found it offensive and he asked if she could workout. She said she could then he said STFU so I can too. So I brought an energy into a situation that others then feed off of and it esclated higher than my discussion. I don't like to 'protest' as I see it as a negative. I'd much rather 'support' something I believe in which I see as positive. A little something I learned studying Mother Theresa. Though I do not share her religious beliefs I do respect her as a person and currently pwny has also earned my respect. I don't care if I earn respect for myself because I'm good as I am. It's people like me that you want to do something so I'd say you should follow pwny's example or just get iggy with it. LOL

EDIT Gym not gum lol

 

[TLO]

Can confirm that breakthrough infections still suck. But you aren’t gonna be hospitalized/die. Get vaccinated folks.