If the Packers struggle without Rodgers, is it an indictment on Ted Thompson?

[Pugger]

8 hours ago, HyponGrey said:

Are we forgetting that essentially the same chiefs team as the year before when they had the #1 overall pick all of a sudden made the playoffs with after grabbing Alex Smith? How are the Broncos doing again? 

The only indictment against Ted I have is that the mass amount of picks he sunk into the D did near diddly. Can't say he didn't try, but talent and coaching either didn't meet or didn't measure up.

I think it is a several things: Ted did sink a lot of draft capital on the defensive side of the ball lately (especially DBs) so yes, we can't say he didn't try.  But were the players he chose the right ones?  Were there other players available when we were picking that would have been a better fit and/or filled the need better?  Are the coaches putting these players in the best possible positions to be successful?  Is our depth woefully inadequate so when we have an injury to a starter the impact on the unit is immense?

[MacReady]

Just now, Pugger said:

I think it is a several things: Ted did sink a lot of draft capital on the defensive side of the ball lately (especially DBs) so yes, we can't say he didn't try.  But were the players he chose the right ones?  Were there other players available when we were picking that would have been a better fit and/or filled the need better?  Are the coaches putting these players in the best possible positions to be successful?  Is our depth woefully inadequate so when we have an injury to a starter the impact on the unit is immense?

I think the biggest issue with our defense is twofold:

1. Inexperience/Youth. 
2. Chemistry.

Tramon Williams, Nick Collins and Charles Woodson had played together for four straight years prior to 2010 (minus a brief stint in Atlanta for Peprah). 

Look at our secondary now.  Randall and Clinton-Dix are the only two players who have played with each other more than a year now that Burnett is out.  Add to that lack of chemistry King's inexperience, Josh Jones' inexperience and House not yet having chemistry with those guys and you get a bad defense. 

That's the only intangible problem with this defense I can see.  The tangible problem is, of course, our complete and pitiful lack of a legitimate pass rush. 

[th87]

On 10/22/2017 at 10:22 PM, CWood21 said:

Do you truly believe that Jordy Nelson was 100% when the season started in 2016?  No.  If you believe that the difference between Jordy a year or so removed from an ACL surgery and 4 years leads me to believe you've never suffered a knee injury.  You don't trust your knee for sometime after.

You're jumping to the conclusion based on a faulty assumption.  Correlation doesn't equal causation.  Just because he was a bigger part of the offense (in large part due to Jordy's injury), doesn't mean he was the problem with the offense.  If the player is put into a position he's not supposed to be in, does that make it his fault?  No, the injury to Jordy forced that issue ergo Jordy's ACL tear was the cause, and RR's increase in targets was the affect.

Cook's return and increased involvement caused a direct jump in our offensive efficiency. Sure, you can argue that Jordy finally became his old self at the same time Cook returned, but that would be a bit too much of a coincidence for me. Was it a bit of both? Sure. But I say Cook returning had a far bigger effect.

 

[StinkySauce]

On 10/17/2017 at 2:18 PM, RoellPreston88 said:

Is Rodgers' injury an indictment on Ted Thompson? 

This injury shows why fans wanted Ted to go all in every year, because we won't be with the best QB maybe ever, forever. And now we are about to see how good (or in my opinion bad) this team really is.

I vote LOL.  

[CWood21]

2 hours ago, th87 said:

Cook's return and increased involvement caused a direct jump in our offensive efficiency. Sure, you can argue that Jordy finally became his old self at the same time Cook returned, but that would be a bit too much of a coincidence for me. Was it a bit of both? Sure. But I say Cook returning had a far bigger effect.

Let me ask you this, do you think that Richard Rodgers would have played as big a role in the Packers offense in 2015 had Jordy Nelson not gotten injured, yes or no?

[Dubz41]

It is not an indictment of TT. TT could hit every defensive pick just right and Capers and company will screw that kid into the ground. The rookies come in and flash a little then begin the long spiral of regression. Capers doesn't USE talent, doesn't turn talent loose. He chains it up in the meeting room, makes defense too complicated until they forget to even hit ball carriers.

It just has never fit very well that MM and Capers need experienced vets to run their alleged 'complex schemes', but the Packers are committed to draft and develop....so we are usually one of the youngest teams in the league?!?! It's never been a happy marriage between the two philosophies and without ARod the lack of coaching is glaring us right in the face.

[Gopackgonerd]

If we win dont win any more games this year, probably kinda maybe.. I mean Ted has done everything to try to improve this team this year through FA. No one expects your Franchise to get hurt, and not everyone is gonna have an good QB as a backup, it's a harder slump to get over when your team is built around the QB and you lose him. Not to mention if the injuries continue to pile up, theres only so much you can replace and do in a season.

[Kenrik]

6 hours ago, Gopackgonerd said:

If we win dont win any more games this year, probably kinda maybe.. I mean Ted has done everything to try to improve this team this year through FA. No one expects your Franchise to get hurt, and not everyone is gonna have an good QB as a backup, it's a harder slump to get over when your team is built around the QB and you lose him. Not to mention if the injuries continue to pile up, theres only so much you can replace and do in a season.

So GB should keep Ted for trying hard? I'm not for firing Ted but GMs dont keep their job for doing everything they can. 

[spilltray]

34 minutes ago, Kenrik said:

So GB should keep Ted for trying hard? I'm not for firing Ted but GMs dont keep their job for doing everything they can. 

What's the actual mistake or shortcoming? Not being able to account for injuries to your QB, top 4 OT, and 3/4 the starting DBs?  There have been a couple missed picks, but the % is still higher than average there, so what is the failure on Thompson's part?

[spilltray]

8 hours ago, Dubz41 said:

It is not an indictment of TT. TT could hit every defensive pick just right and Capers and company will screw that kid into the ground. The rookies come in and flash a little then begin the long spiral of regression. Capers doesn't USE talent, doesn't turn talent loose. He chains it up in the meeting room, makes defense too complicated until they forget to even hit ball carriers.

It just has never fit very well that MM and Capers need experienced vets to run their alleged 'complex schemes', but the Packers are committed to draft and develop....so we are usually one of the youngest teams in the league?!?! It's never been a happy marriage between the two philosophies and without ARod the lack of coaching is glaring us right in the face.

Doesn't really apply to the offense like the defense. McCarthy makes rookies "earn their snaps" but young guys regularly work their way into key roles.

 

For Capers though yeah that is a bit of an ideological rubbing point. We dpn't really need vets, but we need guys that aren't changing drastically every year.

[RoellPreston88]

9 hours ago, Dubz41 said:

It is not an indictment of TT. TT could hit every defensive pick just right and Capers and company will screw that kid into the ground. The rookies come in and flash a little then begin the long spiral of regression. Capers doesn't USE talent, doesn't turn talent loose. He chains it up in the meeting room, makes defense too complicated until they forget to even hit ball carriers.

It just has never fit very well that MM and Capers need experienced vets to run their alleged 'complex schemes', but the Packers are committed to draft and develop....so we are usually one of the youngest teams in the league?!?! It's never been a happy marriage between the two philosophies and without ARod the lack of coaching is glaring us right in the face.

Doesn’t TT have the ability to get a new defensive coordinator, then?

[Pugger]

53 minutes ago, spilltray said:

What's the actual mistake or shortcoming? Not being able to account for injuries to your QB, top 4 OT, and 3/4 the starting DBs?  There have been a couple missed picks, but the % is still higher than average there, so what is the failure on Thompson's part?

Not being Bellichick? 

The ridiculous success of NE these 17 years is causing some fans to expect similar results because we have a QB who talent-wise might be the best ever.  What BB is doing over there is unprecedented and will not be repeated as long as the league is striving for parity like it is today.  IMO what we need to do going forward while we still have #12 is to have Capers "retire" and get this defense to perform better.  Improving our pass rush could go a long way here.

[Pugger]

9 minutes ago, RoellPreston88 said:

Doesn’t TT have the ability to get a new defensive coordinator, then?

I think I McCoach is in charge of hiring and firing his assistants.

[Kenrik]

1 hour ago, spilltray said:

What's the actual mistake or shortcoming? Not being able to account for injuries to your QB, top 4 OT, and 3/4 the starting DBs?  There have been a couple missed picks, but the % is still higher than average there, so what is the failure on Thompson's part?

 

30 minutes ago, Pugger said:

Not being Bellichick? 

The ridiculous success of NE these 17 years is causing some fans to expect similar results because we have a QB who talent-wise might be the best ever.  What BB is doing over there is unprecedented and will not be repeated as long as the league is striving for parity like it is today.  IMO what we need to do going forward while we still have #12 is to have Capers "retire" and get this defense to perform better.  Improving our pass rush could go a long way here.

So you think it's unreasonable to think we should have been in more superbowls than one while we have the greatest QB to ever play the game? With Rodgers we're a SB contender and without him were a bottom 10 team. Two issues here backup QB isnt where it should be or the rest of the roster isnt where it should be. Both those issues fall on Ted and/or coaching staff. Someone has to be held accountable. The biggest praises for Belichick is his ability to hold people accountable and his ability to change both qualities Ted and coaching staff(Mac & Dom) lack. This GB team is Rodgers and the roster has been built around the success of Rodgers. Rodgers plays great we win, Rodgers plays bad/average we lose, Rodgers gets injured and GB doesn't win at all. I don't think this structure is by design but rather poor performance by Ted. The scouting department has lost a lot of talent in recent years which I think has hurt this team but Ted doesn't bring in new talent. Imagine having a roster built around Defense where if Rodgers plays bad we can still win. GB has the 8th and 11th largest cap hits for WR(Cobb & Nelson). NEs top 3 WRs don't equal Cobbs cap hit. Rodger inflates WRs numbers and we shouldn't be paying our WRs top dollar because most of their success is due to Rodgers. Jordy, Cobb and Adams aren't game changers its the guy throwing them the ball. Spend that money on defensive playmakers and give Rodgers more opportunities. Something has to change at the end of the season and if people want to continue to ride with Ted then Dom and or Mac need to be the change.

[vegas492]

I want to dogpile onto HZ's post...in a good way.

For the defense, it's either talent or scheme or both.  Injuries obviously hurt, but that is true for every team, not just GB.

I believe that TT drafts good enough defensive talent, Dom just doesn't use it correctly.  That is my belief.  And it will only be proven right if Dom moves on, a new guy comes in and the same defenders all of a sudden play better.  Burnett is a good player.  HHCD is a good to great player.  Clay was a great player, now he is good.  Perry is a great player.  Daniels is a great player.  Clark is a good player.  ILB's are average to good.  Corners are average to good.  We should see better results.

HZ is right...Rodgers will make any offense work and he doesn't even need great talent at WR.  He(Rodgers) can win despite scheme and lesser talent.  But, he needs a defense if he is going to truly contend for another title.