Post Draft..thoughts?

[Justone2]

38 minutes ago, Chrissooner49er said:

I am thinking Solomon or Dante. 

Solomon was a consensus top pick. Sure he failed but don't think he is the one and Dante was also not really that far from where most people had him ranked. I would say Beathard is the one. Consensus had him late day 3/UDFA and we took him round 3.

[Justone2]

Just now, Justone2 said:

Solomon was a consensus top pick. Sure he failed but don't think he is the one and Dante was also not really that far from where most people had him ranked. I would say Beathard is the one. Consensus had him late day 3/UDFA and we took him round 3.

Never mind see Barrows confirm it is Pettis.

[49ersfan]

https://theathletic.com/2558295/2021/05/05/teds-film-room-my-10-favorite-scheme-and-player-fits-from-the-2021-nfl-draft/

Ted Nguyen's top 10 scheme fits (paywalled article, but i think they're still running a $1 per month promo)

#1 scheme fit - Trey Lance

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One of my favorite qualities I saw from Lance while reviewing his film, is how quickly he progresses through reads and how quickly he snaps his lower body from read to read. The time from when he makes a decision to throw the ball and when the ball arrives at the target because of his lower-body mechanics, release and explosive arm is very short and I believe that is imperative in a Shanahan offense.

#10 scheme fit - Trey Sermon

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Watching Sermon, the trait that jumped out to me is how violently he cuts. The Shanahans (Mike and Kyle) have a reputation for turning obscure running backs with this trait into 1,000-yard rushers. Sermon has a higher profile than some of those runners — he played three seasons for Oklahoma and last season at Ohio State. Sermon is an inconsistent inside runner, but he thrives on outside runs and showed advanced vision. He ran a lot of outside zone for the Buckeyes and displayed patience pressing the front side as long as possible before making cuts. He’ll be asked to run a ton of outside zone and toss plays in Shanahan’s offense.

 

[y2lamanaki]

21 hours ago, Justone2 said:

Solomon was a consensus top pick. Sure he failed but don't think he is the one and Dante was also not really that far from where most people had him ranked. I would say Beathard is the one. Consensus had him late day 3/UDFA and we took him round 3.

One would think Beathard is an obvious choice, but I don't think many hate on the Beathard pick as much as 49ers fans do. In Shanahan's first draft, with Hoyer penciled in as the transitional starter and a plan for Kirk Cousins the following year, all the team needed/wanted was a low cost backup that could stick around in the system for 4 years and maybe develop - there were no expectations for pick #104. Shanahan gave up pick #219 in the 7th to go up and select the guy of his choosing for that specific role.

And with the benefit of hindsight, you wouldn't go back and choose any QB taken after Beathard if you needed a QB. No one would clamor for Josh Dobbs, Nathan Peterman, Brad Kaaya, or Chad Kelly now. And you wouldn't keep more expensive Matt Barkley over him either. At best you can say everyone rated Beathard a 6th and he was overdrafted, but that's at best a guess. 

No one will confuse Beathard with being a GOOD pick, but given the specific need that needed to be filled at that specific time, there was no better option and the price was minute. It was a far bigger miss (a 5th) to trade up for Joe Williams the following day, but because of the position, we all hate on the QB more (myself included until Beathard was finally gone and I went back to look at that class).

The real problem was passing on Mahomes/Watson in the first, but that's a separate issue. 

[Justone2]

2 hours ago, y2lamanaki said:

One would think Beathard is an obvious choice, but I don't think many hate on the Beathard pick as much as 49ers fans do. In Shanahan's first draft, with Hoyer penciled in as the transitional starter and a plan for Kirk Cousins the following year, all the team needed/wanted was a low cost backup that could stick around in the system for 4 years and maybe develop - there were no expectations for pick #104. Shanahan gave up pick #219 in the 7th to go up and select the guy of his choosing for that specific role.

And with the benefit of hindsight, you wouldn't go back and choose any QB taken after Beathard if you needed a QB. No one would clamor for Josh Dobbs, Nathan Peterman, Brad Kaaya, or Chad Kelly now. And you wouldn't keep more expensive Matt Barkley over him either. At best you can say everyone rated Beathard a 6th and he was overdrafted, but that's at best a guess. 

No one will confuse Beathard with being a GOOD pick, but given the specific need that needed to be filled at that specific time, there was no better option and the price was minute. It was a far bigger miss (a 5th) to trade up for Joe Williams the following day, but because of the position, we all hate on the QB more (myself included until Beathard was finally gone and I went back to look at that class).

The real problem was passing on Mahomes/Watson in the first, but that's a separate issue. 

I agree with most of what you say but for me there is a big gap with QB's. You either grab one to be the starter in the first(maybe early second). Or you grab a guy late to hopefully develop. The only reason we know anything about what Beathard is is because he had to play that season and later on. I think he is a fine back-up and i would have been weirdly ok if he was resigned because of that. And yeah he probably he beter than those four but at that point does it really matter if you throw Beathard out there or Peterman? Neither will get you where you want to go so give me the worst one and get that higher pick. Back-up QB is important when you star QB misses one or two weeks but when you have the situation we had with Jimmy where he basically is out from week 2 on almost any back-up will fail because there simply is a reason they are back-ups.

 

What my main problem with the Beathard pick is is that we traded up(minute thing we gave up for sure but give me that extra shot especially at that point with a roster so devoid of talent) for a guy that consensus had much lower. Who knows how we talk about any of those guys if they had four years and some starts under Shanahan. But the wording on that tweet made it so that my first thought was Beathard because he was rated so much lower by consensus something i didn't feel was the case for Pettis. In terms of the actual result of the pick i think Beathard is maybe the 4th or fifth best pick in that draft(Kittle, Jones, Witherspoon are probably all clearly more succesfull picks) in a discussion with Taylor(first year great after that mostly injuries). 

 

Joe Williams is a whole seperate story on why talent should never trump personality. No matter how good a guy can be if he doesn't want to work for it you get nothing back from it. That whole draft is pretty lackluster and it almost a miracle how quickly we turned it around looking back at most of the moves we made that offseason. What i like most though is how we seem to learn and adapt each year and change small things in our process to avoid making the same misstakes. You will never hit on every pick you make and you will always have major misses in FA. The way you handle those and don't let your team get bogged down by it is what separates good teams from the bad ones. 

 

 

Edited May 6, 2021 by Justone2

[y2lamanaki]

3 hours ago, Justone2 said:

And yeah he probably he beter than those four but at that point does it really matter if you throw Beathard out there or Peterman? Neither will get you where you want to go so give me the worst one and get that higher pick.

I won't go too much further into it, but I think this represents the difference between fans and coaches/league personnel very well. To us, the above makes sense because we care about wins only. Coaches of course need better backups for wins as wins help keep their jobs, but their jobs rely on developing players and implementing systems. That's impossible to do when you don't have the ball. So it doesn't simply matter that neither Beathard (2-10 as a starter) or Peterman (1-3) are going to win many games. Beathard's 18 TD to 13 INT ratio allows for way more offensive development than Peterman's 3 TDs to 12 INT ratio.

So fans? Sure, we're not happy about Beathard, but others involved with the league likely look at it in a more nuanced way. 

[J-ALL-DAY]

Listening to Simms podcast today and he said something interesting. He said he talked to Kyle and Kyle was kind of worrying and getting frustrated that so many coaches were using his offenses and his plays so he wanted to change it up and now it completely changes with Lance and the power element added with Banks/Sermon. 

[rudyZ]

14 hours ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

Listening to Simms podcast today and he said something interesting. He said he talked to Kyle and Kyle was kind of worrying and getting frustrated that so many coaches were using his offenses and his plays so he wanted to change it up and now it completely changes with Lance and the power element added with Banks/Sermon. 

No matter how other teams are using single plays from Kyle's playbook, Kyle's real strength is in setting up these plays. Other teams can steal them, but they can't steal the exact way Kyle implements them. Anyway, there's never been a successful play that hasn't been copied by another team. Copycat league. It's a sign you're doing something right. And I'm pretty sure Kyle has taken plays from others as well. It evens out. More or less.

[J-ALL-DAY]

1 hour ago, rudyZ said:

No matter how other teams are using single plays from Kyle's playbook, Kyle's real strength is in setting up these plays. Other teams can steal them, but they can't steal the exact way Kyle implements them. Anyway, there's never been a successful play that hasn't been copied by another team. Copycat league. It's a sign you're doing something right. And I'm pretty sure Kyle has taken plays from others as well. It evens out. More or less.

Definitely, but it makes sense for him to expand his playbook and add the power element to his arsenal. That will help improve on short down situations and especially in the RZ. 

But what does Kyle expect? Look at how many coaches around the league come from the Mike Shanahan coaching tree. This was bound to happen to eventually. 

[Justone2]

1 minute ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

Definitely, but it makes sense for him to expand his playbook and add the power element to his arsenal. That will help improve on short down situations and especially in the RZ. 

But what does Kyle expect? Look at how many coaches around the league come from the Mike Shanahan coaching tree. This was bound to happen to eventually. 

Always good to be ahead of the curve on those things. You saw it with a lot of the guys from the Carroll tree who kept running the same thing which got less and less effective while Carroll himself has changed his scheme up and with us you saw Saleh change drastically what we where doing from year to year(we will see how much of that was Saleh's and how much was pushed on him from above). There will always be things we do that come from old Shanahan/Bill Walsh but changing it up is always a good thing. I think personnel plays a big part as wel because we really haven't had a guy that is better running inside compared to outside since Shanahan came in.

[49ersfan]

https://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2021/insider/story/_/id/31399479/nfl-draft-2021-early-impact-rookies-picks-landed-perfect-teams-late-round-steals

Another article mentioning Trey Lance as a scheme fit, as well as mentioning Trey Sermon as a value pick

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The play-action mechanics jump on Lance's college tape, and so does his decision-making. In Shanahan's system, Lance can read it out, making layered throws to intermediate windows and attacking vertically on scripted deep-ball shots. Plus, with the physical element he brings to the position, expect Shanahan to scheme Lance on designed rushes, where he averaged 6.8 yards per carry in 2019.

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The 49ers will use multiple backs under Shanahan, but Sermon has the upside of a RB1 given his pro running style in a zone-heavy system. Go to Sermon's tape versus Northwestern and Clemson last season. That's where we saw his ability to find daylight, using his one-cut running style on outside zone schemes, plus the contact balance -- which is a critical factor at the position.

 

[NinerNation21]

Interesting. I haven't seen any data on his PA pass sets, but his normal pass sets are impressive. 

[49ersfan]

53 minutes ago, NinerNation21 said:

Interesting. I haven't seen any data on his PA pass sets, but his normal pass sets are impressive. 

Fantastic article. I subbed to The Athletic last month when they were running a $1 a month promo for 6 months. Not sure if they're still doing it. I'm even considering keeping it when they'll start charging their regular rate of $9.99 after my 6 month trial is over. I'll post some quotes

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A year ago, Peters spoke similarly about offensive lineman Colton McKivitz, also a fifth-rounder, noting that McKivitz had earned a rare “gold helmet” designation from the 49ers. That meant he was, according to Peters, “exemplary” in a number of areas, including leadership and intelligence. Heading into a draft, only about 15-20 players will get that designation, he said.

This year, two 49ers rookies ended up with gold helmets: quarterback Trey Lance and Hufanga.

 

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Peters agreed that Lenoir was a bit like D.J. Reed, whom the 49ers also took in the fifth round in 2018 and who is now on the Seahawks. Reed was 5-foot-9, 188 pounds at the time he was drafted. Lenoir is 5-10, 199 pounds.

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Peters said he can gauge a draft pick by how many congratulatory texts he receives from scouts and officials on other teams immediately after the selection. He got the most after Moore and Mitchell were taken.

“I had three teams text me and say they were targeting Elijah, that they were going to pick him right after us. So that makes me feel good,” he said.

 

 

Edited May 13, 2021 by 49ersfan

[49ersfan]

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I think they're still high on McKivitz. None of the three guys selected after the first round did much last year, which probably has a lot to do with the wiped-out offseason. He'll be someone to keep an eye on in upcoming OTAs. I figure he'll take most snaps at RG, but he really could line up just about anywhere on the line. .

Barrows reply to a comment asking if the team regrets their "gold helmet" designation to McKivitz

Wondering if Brunskill could be our backup C, Moore backups at G & McKivitz our swing T

[NinerNation21]

44 minutes ago, 49ersfan said:

Barrows reply to a comment asking if the team regrets their "gold helmet" designation to McKivitz

Wondering if Brunskill could be our backup C, Moore backups at G & McKivitz our swing T

I think Banks starts at RG, Brunskill is the first lineman off the bench for any spot, I think McKivitz and Moore are battling for the 2nd off the bench for a G spot, and McKivitz/Skule/Coleman are battling for the 2nd of the bench for a T spot. 

I think we keep about 8 or 9 lineman:

Starters: Williams, Tomlinson, Mack, Banks, McGlinchey

Reserves: Brunskill, Moore, McKivitz, Coleman/Skule (if they keep 9)