AZBearsFan Posted July 23, 2021 Share Posted July 23, 2021 23 hours ago, Heinz D. said: š Everyone remember, though...Love is not a scrub.Ā His sophomore year he put up good stats but as a junior he had 20 TDs and 17 INT against Mountain West competition.Ā He was always a toolsy projection IMO which is what made him make sense for a 2-3 year apprenticeship behind Rodgers. After just oneĀ year of ālearningā behind Rodgers heās apparently still really unready for primetime.Ā Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heinz D. Posted July 23, 2021 Share Posted July 23, 2021 14 minutes ago, AZBearsFan said: His sophomore year he put up good stats but as a junior he had 20 TDs and 17 INT against Mountain West competition.Ā He was always a toolsy projection IMO which is what made him make sense for a 2-3 year apprenticeship behind Rodgers. After just oneĀ year of ālearningā behind Rodgers heās apparently still really unready for primetime.Ā How do we know that? Certainly not the rhetoric coming out of Packers' camp... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulman Posted July 24, 2021 Author Share Posted July 24, 2021 (edited) And if the Rodgers fiasco isn't quite enough to make your Friday cheery there's this as well. Report: Packers, Davante Adams have broken off contract talks Posted by Michael David Smith on July 23, 2021, 11:25 AM EDT Getty Images Packers wide receiver Davante Adams is heading into the final year of his contract, and itās looking more and more likely that heāll be hitting free agency in 2022. Adams and the Packers have broken off contract talks and donāt plan to resume them, according to Ian Rapoport of NFL Network. Last month Adams said he wonāt hold out because he doesnāt want to get fined, so thereās no concern about whether heāll get to work this year. But this could be his last year in Green Bay. Adams and his Fresno State teammate Derek Carr have flirted with joining forces on the Raiders next year. Weāre a long way from that happening, but Adamsā contract is a situation that bears monitoring, and may continue to bear monitoring into next year. Edited July 24, 2021 by soulman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBearsFan Posted July 24, 2021 Share Posted July 24, 2021 2 hours ago, Heinz D. said: How do we know that? Certainly not the rhetoric coming out of Packers' camp... Love was really underwhelming in his final college season against weak competition before being overdrafted (IMO), and then he couldnāt even get to #2 on their depth chart as a rookie ahead of Tim Boyle, an undrafted nobody with 4 career passes. So thereās that.Ā Also, home team reporters saying good things about their own players in non-padded practices on air should be taken with a huuuuuuuuuge grain of salt for any team, including ours, but donāt forget that the GB front office us in full blown damage control mode right now too. Theyāre in the middle of alienating the best QB in the history of the franchise (one with multiple HOF at the position) and anĀ all-time great, whoās the reigning MVP. Theyāre gonna pump out as much positive content about Love as they can including cashing in every favor they have with the local media outletsĀ in case Rodgers is actually gone,Ā and even then those positive things coming out about Love havenāt been exactly extolling in praise for him. Not only does the teamāsĀ conduct with Rodgers suggest that playing Love in 2021 isnāt an option they want to consider at all (if they thought he could play at a high level now or even a year from now then Rodgers would already have been traded for a kingās ransom instead of them trying to buy his happiness by making him the highest paid player in league history and adding years to his deal),Ā but also anything coming from anyone outside theĀ Green Bay media circle that Iāve seen andĀ all of the between the lines stuff says heās not ready to play. When the only people anywhere saying good things about Bears players are Bears people and writers how often is that player any good? Ever??!Ā If Rodgers wereĀ gone by week 1 would it honestly shock you if Bortles was playing? The fact that, for basically anyone not on the Packer payroll or in some way affiliated with the team,Ā the answer to that question is anything other than a resounding ānoāĀ tells me a whole lot. We know what Bortles is, and itās not good. What have you seen from anyone other than the potentially biased GB media that suggests he might not be unready to play starter level NFL football in 2021? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulman Posted July 24, 2021 Author Share Posted July 24, 2021 Of course in reference to the above it would pay Ryan Pace to pay heed to the fact that GB will be looking to replace Adams and they were also hot on the trail of ARob when he signed with the Bears instead.Ā I would not like to see ARob playing in the Cheese Tundra next season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heinz D. Posted July 24, 2021 Share Posted July 24, 2021 1 hour ago, AZBearsFan said: Love was really underwhelming in his final college season against weak competition before being overdrafted (IMO), and then he couldnāt even get to #2 on their depth chart as a rookie ahead of Tim Boyle, an undrafted nobody with 4 career passes. So thereās that.Ā Love's final college season, and it's lack of pizazz, can be directly linked to a few different things. But his detractors will never accept those issues as anything remotely close to being real...so I'm not going to break them down again, as it's clearly pointless in this conversation.Ā 1 hour ago, AZBearsFan said: If Rodgers wereĀ gone by week 1 would it honestly shock you if Bortles was playing?Ā Yeah. It would.Ā 1 hour ago, AZBearsFan said: The fact that, for basically anyone not on the Packer payroll or in some way affiliated with the team,Ā the answer to that question is anything other than a resounding ānoāĀ tells me a whole lot. We know what Bortles is, and itās not good. How is that potential answerĀ a broad, "resounding no"? Who are all these people? I'm curious...I may be out of the loop, and unaware of a new consensus on Love.Ā 1 hour ago, AZBearsFan said: What have you seen from anyone other than the potentially biased GB media that suggests he might not be unready to play starter level NFL football in 2021? I don't understand that question?Ā Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBearsFan Posted July 24, 2021 Share Posted July 24, 2021 11 minutes ago, Heinz D. said: Love's final college season, and it's lack of pizazz, can be directly linked to a few different things. But his detractors will never accept those issues as anything remotely close to being real...so I'm not going to break them down again, as it's clearly pointless in this conversation.Ā āLack of pizzazzā and a 20:17 TD:INT ratio are not the same thing IMO, but dismissing my differing opinion on Love as being that of a detractor without giving me anything to go on to suggest thatĀ my opinion that heās a toolsy project (with big upside but also a low floor) might beĀ wrong is basically saying because you think I am. Iām not closed mindedĀ to differing perspectives - I just havenātĀ seenĀ anything that says thereās anĀ NFL starter in thereĀ without a lot ofĀ growth. Iāve yet to see anything from him to suggestĀ heās significantly better as a prospectĀ than Jacob Eason (who I also didnāt like coming out).Ā I felt this way long before he was drafted by Green Bay too - the receipts are in last yearās pre-draft threads where I was pretty adamant about not wanting him on the Bears at his expected draft position.Ā 11 minutes ago, Heinz D. said: How is that potential answerĀ a broad, "resounding no"? Who are all these people? I'm curious...I may be out of the loop, and unaware of a new consensus on Love.Ā The question I asked was āIfĀ Rodgers wereĀ gone by week 1 would it honestly shock you if Bortles wasĀ playing?ā I meant to write āresounding yesā. My bad. My point was that I donāt think most people would be shocked if Bortles started week 1 if Rodgers were gone. Could be a flawed assumption by me.Ā 11 minutes ago, Heinz D. said: I don't understand that question?Ā What have you seen from Love that suggests heās actually ready to playĀ competitive, starter-qualityĀ level football in the NFL right nowĀ that doesnāt come from theĀ Packers themselves (who are biased and have an agenda) or their beat writers (who may also be biased)? Thatās pretty much all weāve got to go on at this point, right? At least for another week or so. Youāre seemingly suggesting heās made huge strides from where he was at the end of last season when he couldnāt even get active on game day over Tim Boyle. On what are you basing that?Ā Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulman Posted July 24, 2021 Author Share Posted July 24, 2021 My take on Jordan Love is that if LaFleur and the Packer brass believed he was ready to take over for Rodgers and the offense with nary a hitch they would not have made the offer to Rodgers they have and would have traded him before the draft when his value would have been highest.Ā They didn't. You also don't bring in a lower level vet like Blake Bortles to compete with Love or even has his backup/mentor.Ā Can you imagine Bears fans response if Pace would have signed Bortles as a bridge QB/mentor instead of Dalton?Ā There would have been a gallows erected outside of Halas Hall long ago. I think it's safe to assume the Love is at nowhere near the skill level of Rodger (and neither are 30 other starting QBs) and that we can only gain from seeing Rodgers either traded or retire prior to the 2021 season.Ā But then he may surprise us all and show up for one more swing for a ring. Still 50/50 for me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulman Posted July 24, 2021 Author Share Posted July 24, 2021 Those contract blues are breaking up that old gang of mine....... ZaāDarius Smith joins the list of less-than-happy Packers Mike Florio Sat, July 24, 2021, 10:56 AM https://www.yahoo.com/sports/za-darius-smith-joins-list-165646099.html Ā Packers pass rusher Za'Darius Smith raised eyebrows on Friday when he tweeted, āI need a realtor in GreenBay ASAP!!ā And while within 35 minutes he downplayed the tweet as a reference to looking for a new house in the Green Bay area, some in league circles believe something is up. As one league source explained it to PFT, Smith is believed to be unhappy about the team exercising the automatic conversion option in his contract, converting a large chunk of 2021 salary to a guaranteed payment and, in turn, pushing his 2022 cap number north of $28 million. He knows that, come next year, the magnitude of the cap charge for keeping him around means heāll likely be cut or traded. Smith, per the source, didnāt realize the import of the automatic conversion language. Also, heās believed to be not happy that the Packers didnāt pay out the 2021 guarantee ($14.76 million) in March. By letter of the agreement, the Packers will make the payments in weekly chunks during the season, resulting in Smith getting no net benefit from the move. Instead, the restructuring hurts him because it makes his cap number in 2022 too high for the team to carry. Itās not an issue if he signs an extension before next March. Currently, thatās not expected to happen. Smith previously displayed his displeasure by making an agent change. And itās believed that, like quarterback Aaron Rodgers, Smith wants security or he wants out. Maybe, unlike Rodgers, Smith will make his actual desires be known, sooner than later. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heinz D. Posted July 24, 2021 Share Posted July 24, 2021 18 hours ago, AZBearsFan said: "Lack of pizzazzā and a 20:17 TD:INT ratio are not the same thing IMO, but dismissing my differing opinion on Love as being that of a detractor without giving me anything to go on to suggest thatĀ my opinion that heās a toolsy project (with big upside but also a low floor) might beĀ wrong is basically saying because you think I am. Iām not closed mindedĀ to differing perspectives - I just havenātĀ seenĀ anything that says thereās anĀ NFL starter in thereĀ without a lot ofĀ growth.Ā He is/was a project. There's no denying that. How much "growth" he needs depends on one's opinion of him in the first place, I suppose.Ā 18 hours ago, AZBearsFan said: Iāve yet to see anything from him to suggestĀ heās significantly better as a prospectĀ than Jacob Eason (who I also didnāt like coming out).Ā I felt this way long before he was drafted by Green Bay too - the receipts are in last yearās pre-draft threads where I was pretty adamant about not wanting him on the Bears at his expected draft position.Ā I also liked Eason coming out, and thought he would be a fine Plan B for the Bears, if they failed to trade up for Love. We can differ about the prospects of both players, and that's fine, but I'm an old man who's watched this league for a long time, and one thing I've learned is that if a QB has potential, don't write him off until he proves to you he can't do it at the pro level. But that's me being me. Opinions are like *******s, and all that good stuff... 18 hours ago, AZBearsFan said: What have you seen from Love that suggests heās actually ready to playĀ competitive, starter-qualityĀ level football in the NFL right nowĀ that doesnāt come from theĀ Packers themselves (who are biased and have an agenda) or their beat writers (who may also be biased)? Thatās pretty much all weāve got to go on at this point, right? At least for another week or so. Youāre seemingly suggesting heās made huge strides from where he was at the end of last season when he couldnāt even get active on game day over Tim Boyle. On what are you basing that?Ā Well, nobody has seen much of Love as of late, right? And the thing with Boyle...it was the Packers plan to sit Love no matter what. He needed fixing and coaching up. So that's not really much of an argument against his potential, IMO.Ā I have a feeling we'll see what Love has to offer very soon. And we'll go from there. If I'm wrong about him...well, then I am. And we'll all actually be happier if that's the case.Ā š 2 hours ago, soulman said: My take on Jordan Love is that if LaFleur and the Packer brass believed he was ready to take over for Rodgers and the offense with nary a hitch they would not have made the offer to Rodgers they have and would have traded him before the draft when his value would have been highest.Ā They didn't. "Nary a hitch"? Huh? We're talking about (in Rodgers) one of the five best quarterbacks in the history of the game! You get that, right? Even if Love goes on to be a perennial Pro Bowler, the odds he exceeds Rodgers are slim, and the odds he busts are still existent. If you're a team with Aaron Rodgers on your roster, you have to do almost everything you can to ensure he remains there, regardless of how good his backup is. You risk a fan revolt otherwise, and that can potentially end up in millions of dollars of lost revenue.Ā Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugashane Posted July 24, 2021 Share Posted July 24, 2021 31 minutes ago, Heinz D. said: "Nary a hitch"? Huh? We're talking about (in Rodgers) one of the five best quarterbacks in the history of the game! You get that, right? Even if Love goes on to be a perennial Pro Bowler, the odds he exceeds Rodgers are slim, and the odds he busts are still existent. If you're a team with Aaron Rodgers on your roster, you have to do almost everything you can to ensure he remains there, regardless of how good his backup is. You risk a fan revolt otherwise, and that can potentially end up in millions of dollars of lost revenue.Ā That is what is mind-blowing to me about the whole thing. You have a HOF stud at QB coming off an MVP season, a rookie-contract prospect with super high tools, and you just owned the division - again. Why the hell did they spit in his face when he wanted an extension? You can work with him to raise his guaranteed cash and manipulate his cap hit. Rodgers may be an *** but he is far from stupid, he knows how his contract should match up and sees when he is downright disrespected like GB was being. So why did they botch a simple deal like this? Even if they went into talks and couldn't agree at least Rodgers loses leverage because he sees where they are at and where he wants to be. Instead they shut the door on him and he is making a spectacle of GB. While we don't like him and a lot of GB fans are turning on him, he is very well liked by the teammates from everything I've seen and has a TON of influence with them. In the worst case scenario, GB is risking a team revolt, which then turns into a fan revolt. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulman Posted July 25, 2021 Author Share Posted July 25, 2021 8 hours ago, Heinz D. said: "Nary a hitch"? Huh? We're talking about (in Rodgers) one of the five best quarterbacks in the history of the game! You get that, right? Even if Love goes on to be a perennial Pro Bowler, the odds he exceeds Rodgers are slim, and the odds he busts are still existent. If you're a team with Aaron Rodgers on your roster, you have to do almost everything you can to ensure he remains there, regardless of how good his backup is. You risk a fan revolt otherwise, and that can potentially end up in millions of dollars of lost revenue.Ā I get that as well as anyone and what I also get is the way the Packer front office thinks.Ā It's nearly always Super Bowl or bust up there.Ā If behind Love they were to sink to the bottom of the NFCN or anywhere near it would be a major embarrassment to them and many fans would start howling about the pick and how did they ever phuc things up with Rodgers so badly.Ā Some will do a full 180 from what they're saying now. It's not just that they want to always win up there.Ā They feel they should always win and that as "God's Team" they're entitled to always win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulman Posted July 25, 2021 Author Share Posted July 25, 2021 8 hours ago, Sugashane said: So why did they botch a simple deal like this? Even if they went into talks and couldn't agree at least Rodgers loses leverage because he sees where they are at and where he wants to be. Instead they shut the door on him and he is making a spectacle of GB. While we don't like him and a lot of GB fans are turning on him, he is very well liked by the teammates from everything I've seen and has a TON of influence with them. In the worst case scenario, GB is risking a team revolt, which then turns into a fan revolt. We can only guess that they were looking at his $37 mil 2021 and nearly $40 mil 2022 cap hits when they drafted Love and were planning their future without Rodgers yet using him to maximize his trade value in picks and players to do their reset around Love.Ā Then **** happens as they say and not only can't Love even make the 2020 active roster but Rodgers goes out and wins the MVP falling one game short of another SB appearance. I'm only guessing here but way back in January they should have seen the writing on the wall and done a reset of that plan going to Rodgers then with what they eventually offered as well as learning from him what it would take to keep him happy personnel wise before FA and the Draft.Ā While on his rookie contract Love could still be developed as a #2 guy and possible successor or eventually traded as NE did with Garoppolo. IMHO this is where the arrogance of the Packer Front Office comes into it.Ā They seem to be of the opinion that they have no obligation to consult with their star QB, whom we all know is about 80% of the reason they've done as well as they have during his career, as it relates to personnel moves. They may be right on one hand but on the other look at the mess it created for them and their not so clever plan has blown up in their faces. I was reading some posts in the Packer Forum and there are those who believe this has been a PR disaster for Rodgers.Ā IMHO they're missing the point that Rodgers doesn't seem to care about that at all as long as he gets what he wants which essentially is out of Green Bay.Ā I believe his mind is made up on that score and playing another year there doesn't improve his leverage at all.Ā I believe it can only diminish it and furthermore it allows Gutekunst to keep his initial plan intact .Ā Rodgers hates Gutekunst and he's not gonna enjoy being a part of making that happen. Rodgers is ready to move on and proof of that can be somewhat confirmed by how he's handled his personal relationships with his lovers.Ā He was with Danica Patrick almost immediately after breaking up with Olivia Munn.Ā Then he splits with Danica and the next thing we hear is not only is he dating Shailene Woodley but they're engaged.Ā Based on this I think he's already made his plans for where he'd like to finish his career and working on how he can make that happen including retiring now to avoid fines while looking to force GB into trading him when he'll un-retire. I could be completely wrong here but this is what I'm seeing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heinz D. Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 (edited) 10 hours ago, soulman said: I get that as well as anyone and what I also get is the way the Packer front office thinks.Ā It's nearly always Super Bowl or bust up there.Ā If behind Love they were to sink to the bottom of the NFCN or anywhere near it would be a major embarrassment to them and many fans would start howling about the pick and how did they ever phuc things up with Rodgers so badly.Ā Some will do a full 180 from what they're saying now. It's not just that they want to always win up there.Ā They feel they should always win and that as "God's Team" they're entitled to always win. You make a good point about the organization's attitude, for sure, but...Rodgers still ain't there. And as you have stated many times (including right above this post here), you don't think Rodgers intends to play for Green Bay--and I totally agree. If they think they'll just wait itĀ out and Rodgers will report, they're wrong. He'll "retire", as you say. So what willĀ they do? They do have a team that can be competitive without uberquarterback play, they'll simply have to take the plunge.Ā Edited July 25, 2021 by Heinz D. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heinz D. Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 8 hours ago, soulman said: I was reading some posts in the Packer Forum and there are those who believe this has been a PR disaster for Rodgers.Ā IMHO they're missing the point that Rodgers doesn't seem to care about that at all as long as he gets what he wants which essentially is out of Green Bay.Ā I believe his mind is made up on that score and playing another year there doesn't improve his leverage at all.Ā I believe it can only diminish it and furthermore it allows Gutekunst to keep his initial plan intact .Ā Rodgers hates Gutekunst and he's not gonna enjoy being a part of making that happen. I'm not so sure the Cheeseheads are even right about this all being a PR disaster for Rodgers. Now, is he going to be able to show his face in Green Bay again, after all this plays out? Probably not, but I don't think that bothers him much. And when he goes to Denver and starts winning games there, the football media will be so excited they'll be even more hesitant to throw any shade Rodgers' way for this weird standoff that's going on.Ā 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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