Should Andy Reid be more identified with Philly or KC?

[soflbillsfan]

As of right now I still think it is Philly since you got to see him become this amazing offensive mind hc but at the end of it he will be more associated with KC. He turned a franchise who was legit drafting 1st overall when he came in, made the moves he did and has never looked back, he built that team up prior to mahomes to be a playoff contender and continued to be the AFC front runner with Mahomes. He set Mahomes up to succeed and I do not know if Mahomes would be having as good of a career as he is this early on with out the support of Andy. Had he been on a team in which he had to start day 1, with a mediocre HC he could have failed right away. Andy is an offensive genius and shouldn't be discounted because he made Mahomes who he is and saying he is lucky to have him is a joke, as it works hand in hand. A stable HC who is smart and a master at his craft and could be labelled as one of the best offensive HC in the last 20 years. Going from 2-14 to 11-5 is pretty phenomenal and was done without Mahomes. Not having a losing season since going to KC is something other teams wish for, when it comes to finding their HC. I am not even a KC fan and its disrespectful to see such a clown statement who is a kc fan to say mahomes made him just proves how oblivious you are as a fan. 

[Kirill]

19 hours ago, Nabbs4u said:

No he wouldn't. Let's not pretend that actual Coaching and Culture doesn't matters. If you honestly believe Mahomes somehow transforms the Lions, Raiders, Jets, Bengals into SB Champions the last 4 years.  You're even a bigger Mahomes groupy then you already appear.

Yes, I think that Patrick Mahomes would contend anywhere. He almost won the super bowl last year with no offensive line if guys would just catch their passes.
 

It’s not like Mahomes has ever had a great defense, and in a lot of ways Andy Reid can be a hinderance to winning the chip because he consistently abandons the run too much.

Mahomes would do this anywhere. 

[Ray Reed]

22 minutes ago, Kirill said:

Yes, I think that Patrick Mahomes would contend anywhere. He almost won the super bowl last year with no offensive line if guys would just catch their passes.
 

It’s not like Mahomes has ever had a great defense, and in a lot of ways Andy Reid can be a hinderance to winning the chip because he consistently abandons the run too much.

Mahomes would do this anywhere. 

Why did he go like 7-5 every year in college then if he doesn’t need a defense or OL lol

Edit: 13-16 career record at TTU

Edited August 27, 2021 by Ray Reed

[Kirill]

10 minutes ago, Ray Reed said:

Why did he go like 7-5 every year in college then if he doesn’t need a defense or OL lol

Edit: 13-16 career record at TTU

That’s different the talent floor in college is really low. NFL you give him a roster he’s going to contend.

[Ray Reed]

1 minute ago, Kirill said:

That’s different the talent floor in college is really low. NFL you give him a roster he’s going to contend.

That’s what people are saying though...the talent floor between a Lions/Bengals is so stark compared to the Chiefs. 

There’s an argument to be made that in the BIG12 Texas Tech was middle of the pack talent wise compared to the teams they were playing (and consistently losing to) with Mahomes at the helm.

Theres an argument to be made that a team like the Lions are further off the NFL top tier than TTU was off the BIG12 top tier.

[SkippyX]

It does not hurt that he has Kelce, Cheetah, a very good O-line (except for 1 very big game) and track stars as WR depth and a great coach.

He's great and on a HoF track but no way you drop him on the Texans and he thrives this year.

[SBLIII]

17 hours ago, Kirill said:

That’s different the talent floor in college is really low. NFL you give him a roster he’s going to contend.

not really realistic.

we saw what happened when Mahomie doesn't have a stout OL. He also has arguably the top 2 weapons in the NFL.

Watson was special last year and they won 4 games.

Team, owner, GM, coach all matter. Pat is a great player but he had the success he had and has because he was drafted into the perfect situation. Great coach, good offensive line, great weapons, learned from Smith.

His career would be very different if he was drafted by the Lions.

[BeaReylo]

Kansas City for sure.  Just for winning a Super Bowl with them and bringing them a franchise QB.

[Jakuvious]

On 8/27/2021 at 12:34 PM, Ray Reed said:

Why did he go like 7-5 every year in college then if he doesn’t need a defense or OL lol

Edit: 13-16 career record at TTU

In the NFL, you don't score 55 points while throwing for 540 yards and 5 TDs and lose because your D gave up 68. That Tech team had multiple games they lost scoring 50+ points. The worst defense's in NFL history aren't that bad on their worst days.

In the NFL, it is very rare for teams with great QBs to not be successful year in and year out. When a defense gets really bad, sure, you have some stretches like '14 - '16 Brees, but even then, he bottomed out at 7-9. But we've seen Brady get 11 wins without WRs, we've seen Peyton get 10+ multiple times with a bottom 10 scoring defense, Dan Marino, the king of being a great QB but not winning, still only dipped below .500 once. Talent levels are much closer in the NFL than college. Hell, KC went from 2-14 to 11-5 primarily because they added Alex Smith, who wasn't even that good. A QB solves so many problems at the NFL level. It really does. Now, is it easier to get MVPs and win superbowls when the team is already good, obviously. But it isn't like you put him on a bad team and they're still going 4-12. That doesn't really happen, with rare exceptions.

In college, the best teams  just pool talent, and the ones behind fight for scraps. There is no player in college football history that you could put on the 2015 Texas Tech roster, in replacement of Mahomes, that would make them compete with all the 10 win teams they lost to. No QB is succeeding with a defense allowing 43 points per game 3 years running. The Lions even allowing 32 last year was a huge outlier to both other teams and what Detroit has done in other recent years.

Now, if your argument isn't that he would fail on a lesser team but still be a great QB, but is instead that he would never have become a great QB, that's just an argument that can't be won, and could ultimately be made about anyone. It's like the people that argued for a decade plus that Brady only succeeded because he had Belichick. Even if so, who cares? It's written in history at this point as is.

[Jakuvious]

10 hours ago, SBLIII said:

not really realistic.

we saw what happened when Mahomie doesn't have a stout OL. He also has arguably the top 2 weapons in the NFL.

Watson was special last year and they won 4 games.

Team, owner, GM, coach all matter. Pat is a great player but he had the success he had and has because he was drafted into the perfect situation. Great coach, good offensive line, great weapons, learned from Smith.

His career would be very different if he was drafted by the Lions.

Mahomes won a lot of games with an injured OL last year, prior to running into the Bucs. They were already down Schwartz and Osemele and LDT and Rankin and Niang and still made the superbowl. It wasn't like, OL got hurt, and the wheels instantly fell off. It still took running up against a D as good as the Bucs for it to matter. 

[RedGold]

I'm not sure Mahomes has ever had a stout OL.   Sufficient maybe,,,   but hardly anything to brag about.      We've seen what he can do with an OL that doesn't hold him back,   and also one that was severely overmatched.        And he still had 3-4 plays in that game that if our Top 2 weapons wouldn't have dropped... we'd still be talking about.          His stats weren't amazing,  but we dropped a ton of balls in that game... and 3 of them were just insane individual plays by Mahomes.   

He'll always have the drafted into the perfect situation knock against him,     but to act like he isn't a special player is asinine. 

 

It's actually kind of weird being on the KC side hearing the perfect situation..    Reid was considered a choke artist in the playoffs,   KC was laughable in the playoffs.    Mahomes comes,  and he's a product of what was there before?     It's a combo,  sure.   But to act like Mahomes isn't one of the biggest reasons for the success,  is just false.

[Ray Reed]

1 hour ago, Jakuvious said:

In the NFL, you don't score 55 points while throwing for 540 yards and 5 TDs and lose because your D gave up 68. That Tech team had multiple games they lost scoring 50+ points. The worst defense's in NFL history aren't that bad on their worst days.

In the NFL, it is very rare for teams with great QBs to not be successful year in and year out. When a defense gets really bad, sure, you have some stretches like '14 - '16 Brees, but even then, he bottomed out at 7-9. But we've seen Brady get 11 wins without WRs, we've seen Peyton get 10+ multiple times with a bottom 10 scoring defense, Dan Marino, the king of being a great QB but not winning, still only dipped below .500 once. Talent levels are much closer in the NFL than college. Hell, KC went from 2-14 to 11-5 primarily because they added Alex Smith, who wasn't even that good. A QB solves so many problems at the NFL level. It really does. Now, is it easier to get MVPs and win superbowls when the team is already good, obviously. But it isn't like you put him on a bad team and they're still going 4-12. That doesn't really happen, with rare exceptions.

In college, the best teams  just pool talent, and the ones behind fight for scraps. There is no player in college football history that you could put on the 2015 Texas Tech roster, in replacement of Mahomes, that would make them compete with all the 10 win teams they lost to. No QB is succeeding with a defense allowing 43 points per game 3 years running. The Lions even allowing 32 last year was a huge outlier to both other teams and what Detroit has done in other recent years.

Now, if your argument isn't that he would fail on a lesser team but still be a great QB, but is instead that he would never have become a great QB, that's just an argument that can't be won, and could ultimately be made about anyone. It's like the people that argued for a decade plus that Brady only succeeded because he had Belichick. Even if so, who cares? It's written in history at this point as is.

I responded to a post that said “Mahomes would do this anywhere”.

I doubt very seriously he would do what he’s done the past few years on the Lions or Bengals. 

A lot of the points in your post I agree with in general.

[Kirill]

33 minutes ago, Ray Reed said:

I responded to a post that said “Mahomes would do this anywhere”.

I doubt very seriously he would do what he’s done the past few years on the Lions or Bengals. 

A lot of the points in your post I agree with in general.

His supporting cast hasn’t even been that good. 
 

you take the Detroit lions okay you trade Matt Stafford for 3 first round picks then you trade 2 first rounds picks for a Stefon Diggs  sign a couple free agents you got a contender. Pat Mahomes is the greatest QB of all time. It doesn’t take much to win a ball game when he’s on your side of the equation.

[rocky_rams]

Isn’t his nickname Big Red? And one of the chiefs main color is red? 
 

 

[SBLIII]

13 hours ago, Kirill said:

His supporting cast hasn’t even been that good. 
 

you take the Detroit lions okay you trade Matt Stafford for 3 first round picks then you trade 2 first rounds picks for a Stefon Diggs  sign a couple free agents you got a contender. Pat Mahomes is the greatest QB of all time. It doesn’t take much to win a ball game when he’s on your side of the equation.

He is throwing to 2 future Hall of Famers. Of course it's elite. Coached by a HOF coach and there aren't any more questions.