Around the League 2022

[xrade]

1 hour ago, Bobby816 said:

So if we have to neglect defense a tad for a couple years to make sure Wilson is a franchise QB by getting him an OL and weapons… so be it. Making sure Wilson is set up to succeed is vastly more important than ANYTHING we do on defense. And I’ll always continue to say that if you can control the clock a bit on offense… that in itself helps the defense out a ton.

No one will argue your QB point, but how much help does Zach need?  We have 2 FRP OL over the last two drafts. We have a WR who should have been a FRP. We have a decent RB. We got a good FA WR last year and Fant turned out to be a pretty good LT. The point is that if a QB needs so much help to be successful then maybe he is not really a good QB.

Now, I am not suggesting Zach is or is not in that position. What I am suggesting is the thought process that he needs all that.  The Jets certainly need another WR, TE and maybe OL depending on Becton. I would expect free agency to help with that but I would not expect a huge $ WR or TE. Do we really need to add a FRP WR or OL?  Is that what people believe Zach needs?

I know a good O can help the D. But a good D can help the O probably even more so. I believe Zach would play looser without having to play from behind all the time. Field position, short drives, TO’s etc. will help out the O immensely.

[rickyt31]

1 hour ago, Bobby816 said:

I mean our scrap late round CB group is pretty good and should only get better. Hall, Echols, MC2 were great pickups. If he can do that at LB and S as well… we’re good on defense.

DE is what I value. So I’ll always be pro us spending a quality pick on one until we’re set there. I’d like to see us use 4 on Kayvon or Hutch if there. And wouldn’t mind Ojabo at 10 either. I also love the idea of trading for Hunter perhaps. So I for sure don’t want to neglect defense. I also want us to use at least 1 of our picks in Rounds 2 or 3 on a LB or S.

And fact will always remain that unless you have a QB… nothing else matters. So if we have to neglect defense a tad for a couple years to make sure Wilson is a franchise QB by getting him an OL and weapons… so be it. Making sure Wilson is set up to succeed is vastly more important than ANYTHING we do on defense. And I’ll always continue to say that if you can control the clock a bit on offense… that in itself helps the defense out a ton.

And the defense keeps games winnable for a developing QB like Wilson while also creating opportunities for him. People like me aren't saying don't add weapons for Wilson. So there is no need to give me a run down on that but if we sign a good TE, RG, and maybe trade for a WR. He will have more than most QBs have as Becton, AVT, Carter, and Moore grow around Wilson before the draft even hits. We have a good OC as well. That side is a lot closer than some of you give credit for. For the first time in 7 years, I feel good about where the offense is going. 

For defense? Not so much. The odds of Mosley coming back is slim unless he does restructure his deal, most of you question if Q.Williams is worth resigning, and it's possible that our CBs looked decent is because teams didn't need to pass to beat us. Hall is probably the only one in the secondary we all agree on is a solid starter going into next season. We have no clue if Lawson will make a difference next season. Since college, he has had 2 ACL injuries and an achillies injury. His career high is 8 sacks from his rookie year. So I have my doubts he comes back and tops that. We need more than a DE. I loved the Echols & Carter picks, but they wouldn't have started for anyone else in the league. They flashed at times, but still have to prove they can be decent starters. 

So there isn't much hope for the defense. We can say we can use 2nd & 3rds for defense, but the same can be said for the needs we have on offense. The top offenses don't have a lot of 1st round picks in them. All that matters is bothsides of the ball need their impact players. I'm more focused on the defense because there is no one we know we can build around for the next 3 seasons and we can't keep asking Wilson to put up 30+ a game just to give the team a chance to win. Wilson is miles away from Herbert and the Chargers couldn't do it. 

 

That's all I'm going to say.

 

 

 

Edited February 26, 2022 by rickyt31

[Bobby816]

12 minutes ago, xrade said:

No one will argue your QB point, but how much help does Zach need?  We have 2 FRP OL over the last two drafts. We have a WR who should have been a FRP. We have a decent RB. We got a good FA WR last year and Fant turned out to be a pretty good LT. The point is that if a QB needs so much help to be successful then maybe he is not really a good QB.

Now, I am not suggesting Zach is or is not in that position. What I am suggesting is the thought process that he needs all that.  The Jets certainly need another WR, TE and maybe OL depending on Becton. I would expect free agency to help with that but I would not expect a huge $ WR or TE. Do we really need to add a FRP WR or OL?  Is that what people believe Zach needs?

I know a good O can help the D. But a good D can help the O probably even more so. I believe Zach would play looser without having to play from behind all the time. Field position, short drives, TO’s etc. will help out the O immensely.

There’s optimism on both sides of the ball though. Relatively speaking… we don’t “need” a CB at all. Let the young guys play and develop. DT we have Q, Rankins, JFM and Marshall. And who knows about Foley. Our rush D wasn’t bad bc if our DTs. So for me we’re set at DT. DE is a question mark. We have Lawson who we can hope is the guy we saw in TC and is in his prime years. But we still need another DE. Huff I like a lot, but he’s a rotational player for me. This is why I said I’m all for a DE early in the draft or even trade for a guy like Hunter. LB. We have Mosley, great LB but after that it’s thin. Quincy lacks discipline. But that is something that can be coached. We also have Nas and Sherwood developing. No counting on them. But they are 2 guys who we knew were projects. So if even 1 can pan out, that’s great for us. Yes we should cut Mosley after this year, but maybe we just get him to restructure and get him for half the price if we don’t have LBs in place. And as I said, I’d love for us to go LB in that 2nd-4th round area. Maybe even in FA as well. And as for S. We need a SS. Part of me thinks we still want to see what Davis has as FS and Pinnock was decent there as well. We still need another guy if we let Maye and Joyner go. But that’s still only 1 guy.

So we need 1 DE, 1-2 LBs and a S.

 

On offense we need a RG, 1-2 WRs depending on what we do with Berrios. 2 TEs and another RB.

100% a good defense can keep you in a game. But as I stated when the offenses in the AFC are powerhouses… slowing them down is all you can do. You’re not holding them down too much. So you have to score.  We’d be lucky to keep the top AFC teams under 24. This offense currently isn’t scoring 4 TDs a game

[xrade]

24 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

Relatively speaking… we don’t “need” a CB at all. Let the young guys play and develop.

I would argue that but not too strenuously just yet. I like Hall and MC2. Echols can be upgraded upon but I won’t cry too much if we don’t. Davis is bad and Pinnock played in just a few games. You mention Sherwood and Nas.  That is a lot of hope resting on day 3 players many of whom are playing new positions. If we apply that thought process to the O, then we should target only day 3 picks for the O and let them play.

We need lots a real talent on D. DE, LB, S and a CB. Not just projects and players that need a ton of coaching just to be serviceable.  Some of that may be filled in FA, but if we do not spend at least two or three FRP and SRP on D, then we will be picking top 10 again next year.

I liked your mock, but I don’t understand why so many fans want to use all our high draft resources on O for the third straight year. If, at this point, our O can’t function properly with just a few tweaks, perhaps we still don’t have the right coaching staff or FO. Personally, I think we are at a point where we need to see what Zach and company can do. Get another starting WR without spending too big or using a FRP. Get a FA OG and TE and draft a day 2 or 3 TE and we should be set.

[Bobby816]

18 minutes ago, xrade said:

I would argue that but not too strenuously just yet. I like Hall and MC2. Echols can be upgraded upon but I won’t cry too much if we don’t. Davis is bad and Pinnock played in just a few games. You mention Sherwood and Nas.  That is a lot of hope resting on day 3 players many of whom are playing new positions. If we apply that thought process to the O, then we should target only day 3 picks for the O and let them play.

We need lots a real talent on D. DE, LB, S and a CB. Not just projects and players that need a ton of coaching just to be serviceable.  Some of that may be filled in FA, but if we do not spend at least two or three FRP and SRP on D, then we will be picking top 10 again next year.

I liked your mock, but I don’t understand why so many fans want to use all our high draft resources on O for the third straight year. If, at this point, our O can’t function properly with just a few tweaks, perhaps we still don’t have the right coaching staff or FO. Personally, I think we are at a point where we need to see what Zach and company can do. Get another starting WR without spending too big or using a FRP. Get a FA OG and TE and draft a day 2 or 3 TE and we should be set.

I by no means think we should only use our resources on offenders I just think making sure Wilson is in the best situation is the key focus for us. And adding a S let’s say like Hamilton doesn’t do that for us really. I’ll continue to say that I’m 100% on board with one if the 2 too DEs in this draft if one falls to us. But after adding premium position like that. We should use premium picks on other spots. Not on Ss and LBs. Get OLineman and weapons for Wilson instead. I’ll continue to say…. You don’t spend premium picks on not premium positions. Only teams that have players already in place at those spots can do that. We are far away from that. DE is a premium position so I have all the support for going after a guy with top picks. But I get lost when people want to go and add Devin Lloyd, Kyle Hamilton, DTs, hybrid DE/DTs or CBs like Stingley for us. 

[xrade]

1 minute ago, Bobby816 said:

You don’t spend premium picks on not premium positions. Only teams that have players already in place at those spots can do that

I can see your point, but I guess I think all positions in the NFL are premium. That doesn’t mean I’d draft a S at 4 if a DE is staring us in the face or if we have a true need on the OL. But it does mean I would draft a S at 4 over a future replacement OL or third WR especially if said S is being mentioned along side Ed Reed and Earl Thomas. I can’t help but think we win that TB game if Hamilton is at S instead of Elijah Riley. I don’t like spending premium picks on positions we don’t have a huge need at the expense of not filling holes.

[KingOfNewYork]

2 hours ago, xrade said:

No one will argue your QB point, but how much help does Zach need?  We have 2 FRP OL over the last two drafts. We have a WR who should have been a FRP. We have a decent RB. We got a good FA WR last year and Fant turned out to be a pretty good LT. The point is that if a QB needs so much help to be successful then maybe he is not really a good QB.

Now, I am not suggesting Zach is or is not in that position. What I am suggesting is the thought process that he needs all that.  The Jets certainly need another WR, TE and maybe OL depending on Becton. I would expect free agency to help with that but I would not expect a huge $ WR or TE. Do we really need to add a FRP WR or OL?  Is that what people believe Zach needs?

I know a good O can help the D. But a good D can help the O probably even more so. I believe Zach would play looser without having to play from behind all the time. Field position, short drives, TO’s etc. will help out the O immensely.

The help people make it seem like a QB needs to be great is often overblown.

[Bobby816]

38 minutes ago, xrade said:

I can see your point, but I guess I think all positions in the NFL are premium. That doesn’t mean I’d draft a S at 4 if a DE is staring us in the face or if we have a true need on the OL. But it does mean I would draft a S at 4 over a future replacement OL or third WR especially if said S is being mentioned along side Ed Reed and Earl Thomas. I can’t help but think we win that TB game if Hamilton is at S instead of Elijah Riley. I don’t like spending premium picks on positions we don’t have a huge need at the expense of not filling holes.

But who’s a future replacement on the OL you’d draft at 4? Neal or Ikem? They start immediately at RG possibly even RT if a Becton doesn’t have his crap together. And they either stay there as a star RG or can move to OT when we move on from Fant. We draft Green or Lindy at 10 and it’s same thing. Green can be a great OG and play RT and Lindy starts at C and we can move McGovern to RG.

And you see it as drafting a “3rd WR” except that 3rd WR is a starter. Our offense runs 3 WRs a lot. And if they didn’t. They would if we had 3 good ones.

Maybe I have PTSD from Adams. But I hated the Adams pick. And was screaming for Watson or Mahomes. And my stance was then that a S isn’t worth that high of a pick. And it still stands true. I really don’t care if he’s a generational player. Just a FS isn’t altering a game much no matter how good they are. A DE can. Fact is is that it’s an offensive league. So there’s more premium positions on offense than there is on defense. The only thing that stands true on defense is that if you can get to the QB you can win games and hold offenses. No team is out there winning games bc if a star S group or CB group or LB group. But there’s teams winning bc of DL pressure and a QB that’s good that has weapons. So get weapons and DEs.

[xrade]

15 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

They start immediately at RG possibly even RT if a Becton doesn’t have his crap together. And they either stay there as a star RG or can move to OT

100% agree with Ikem if we do not target OG in FA or Becton is a no go. I’ve said this before. But working on the assumption that Becton will be starting at OT and RG is addressed in FA, drafting OL at 4 is drafting a replacement. I see so many mocks with OL at 4 without the qualifiers that Becton or OG is not addressed.

As for WR, we have two pretty good starting WR. A FRP WR this year is a luxury. I’d like to see a Bell or Dotson in round 2.  And again, if we can’t be good with those guys plus an upgrade at RG and a starting FA TE along with a a SRP TE or even a TRP TE, then this whole thing needs to be reevaluated.

Hamilton is not Adams. He is a true S. Adams was a S/LB hybrid.  Not sure what game changing means. If you are referring to a player that has a direct impact on the outcome of the game, very few players fit that mold. FB is a team game and ALL the parts have to be in good working order to win. People used to squawk at picking iOL on day 1 or 2. Then DT’s got bigger and faster and suddenly iOL is important enough to pick in round 1.

And, yes, it is an offensive driven league which is why having a D to keep you in games is also important. One can argue that the entire playoffs was decided by defense. We win the TB game with Hamilton back there instead of Riley. That’s pretty game changing to me. 

[KingOfNewYork]

I rather Zach throw for 4K and we win 11 games a year than he throw for 5K and we win 6. The goal should to build a team that can win not just make Zach great and sacrifice winning in the process and for the love of God do not mention the Bengals AT ALL.

[Bobby816]

NOLA just created 26mill in cap space moving around Thomas and Ramczyk‘s money. Creating cap space isn’t hard.

[rickyt31]

9 hours ago, KingOfNewYork said:

I rather Zach throw for 4K and we win 11 games a year than he throw for 5K and we win 6. The goal should to build a team that can win not just make Zach great and sacrifice winning in the process and for the love of God do not mention the Bengals AT ALL.

Yeah, I had to stop looking at them as an example as well as Josh Allen's quick leap. 

 

[Bobby816]

21 minutes ago, rickyt31 said:

Yeah, I had to stop looking at them as an example as well as Josh Allen's quick leap. 

 

Not that I don’t agree… then who’s an example of a team we should model after that’s had success that doesn’t have a QB that’s a HOFer? Bc you can’t bank on having Brady, Rodgers, Manning, Big Ben, etc at QB.

[Dr.O]

We should focus on building the Jets not building the 49er/Ravens East

[xrade]

8 hours ago, Bobby816 said:

NOLA just created 26mill in cap space moving around Thomas and Ramczyk‘s money. Creating cap space isn’t hard.

Only $42M more to go.