2022 CFB Talk/Draft Prospects

[drd23]

6 hours ago, coordinator0 said:

I feel like there's a real chance of the Ravens moving up for Thibodeaux. The eighth pick seems like the spot to get to. It's hard to see Seattle passing on him. Would 14 and 76 really get it done? I'd hope so. 

Apparently there's a bit of talk that the Lions are going to take him at 2, even if Hutchinson is available

[coordinator0]

23 minutes ago, drd23 said:

Apparently there's a bit of talk that the Lions are going to take him at 2, even if Hutchinson is available

That would create some chaos within the top 9. In that scenario I don't think anybody would want to trade out with the Ravens. I'd assume Stingley or Gardner would be falling a bit but no farther than 7, 8, or 9 with those teams all needing help in the secondary. Atlanta maybe least of all, but they need help everywhere.

Another one that's getting some steam is a wide receiver run within the top 10. Jeremiah's live mock draft is going right now and he has four of them going before the 14th pick (Ravens taking Davis still, Hamilton falls to 15).

[diamondbull424]

3 hours ago, coordinator0 said:

I've taken a bit of a step back this year in terms of going in-depth on prospects before the draft. I'm saving that to see who the Ravens actually end up with.

It's interesting to see the almost universal dislike for Penning on this board as opposed to his pre-draft rankings almost everywhere else. On a lot of sites he's at least firmly in that top 25 ranking range with a popular belief that his draft floor is the Chargers' 17th pick. Wouldn't quite be a Hayden Hurst situation where very few liked that pick regardless of this board or anywhere else.

I feel like defense is the far more likely route unless something ridiculous happens where one of the top three tackles fall and the Ravens move up. But if Penning is the pick... I'm kind of worried to dissect that film. 😓

 

Don’t do it to yourself. Just at that point hope that we can develop him. He’s a trash man’s Evan Neal IMO. Tall, pretty long, but not freakish, great straight line athleticism and explosion, strong… but while Neal has below average contact balance that has him on the ground more often than he should be, he’s a very consistently strong pass protector that has contained matchups at the highest level and at 3 positions along the OL; conversely Penning has abysmal contact balance, is always over lunging, his hands always fire together vs separate and can be taken advantage of, he “finishes” by throwing his man with reckless abandon and I’ve seen him get close to tossing a dude into his QBs direction like a moron (last thing we need is him tossing a defender into a scrambling Lamar’s knees and ruining his career. That and his nastiness gets worse as he gets embarrassed as if he feels the need to redeem his manhood by doing some after whistle Matt Judon type moronic plays that a smart football player would make sure to stay away from 9/10.

Then while he’s got great tools to work with he’s going to be 23, which isn’t terrible, it’s not Hayden Hurst, but you’d prefer that if you’re grabbing a ball of clay that is a likely penalty machine, you’re going to grab the 20-21 year old kid that once it “clicks” for him, he’ll be an All Pro.

Like if we’re going for potential, dominant run blocking, and athleticism, Tyler Smith is the guy. Similar explosion and speed, MUCH more fluid hips, far better contact balance, stronger on the field, still only 20 years old currently, etc. He’s a holding machine, but throw him at guard early and let him develop at OT or develop him at LG and he’s got potential All Pro potential if he maximizes his gifts. Probably the second highest upside of an OL in this class (IMO) outside of Ekwonu at guard (and maybe very slightly higher because he’s got more fluid hips IMO).

So Penning is just sort of not anything. He’s not super high floor guy like a Tyler Lindenbaum and Kenyon Green, he’s not super potential guy like Ekwonu and Smith, nor is he super versatile, consistent, and proven guy like Neal.

Outside of his testing scores, have no idea how he’s considered a 1st rounder. There have been freak athletes that have similar flaws before and they’ve typically been mid-late 2nd round guys at best, probably could even fall to the 3rd. Yet Penning seems to be a favorite for top 20 as you said. It’s honestly pretty ridiculous to me, I feel bamboozled every time I watch his tape.

It’s not 25 year old Hayden Hurst bad, but I’d feel similarly as bad taking Penning as I did when we took Breshad Periman, only worse because like you are now, I wasn’t really watching tape during those couple drafts.

[diamondbull424]

8 hours ago, coordinator0 said:

I feel like there's a real chance of the Ravens moving up for Thibodeaux. The eighth pick seems like the spot to get to. It's hard to see Seattle passing on him. Would 14 and 76 really get it done? I'd hope so. 

As it stands, here is my guess and rational as to how things shake out since no one seems to have an idea as to how it’ll all happen.

Quote

1. JETS - (trade) Aidan Hutchinson, Edge
- IMO the most logical reasoning for us to not know who the #1 overall pick is going to be is the fact that the Jags plan to trade out. I think they likely have a number of guys they like equally and would rather stack picks. Conversely I could see everyone in the Jets organization being on board with a talent like Hutch as “their guy” and looking to leapfrog the Lions to get it done.
2. LIONS - Ahmad ‘Sauce’ Gardner, CB
- I think the tidiest option for draft media is for Hutch to fall to #2 and that would make this pick easy to predict. Without Hutch, I think the smart thing for the Lions would be to go corner and insulate themselves from having too many eggs in the Jeff Okudah basket. Considering that and which corner’s personality I feel best aligns with “biting knee caps”, it’s easily Sauce. His traits, athleticism, and personality seems like it’d make him very popular on Detroit’s big board.
3. TEXANS - Ikem Ekwonu, OL
- Lovie Smith brought up OL multiple times in his presser. Feels like it was a Freudian slip that he couldn’t help. He talked about big, tough, versatile, and physical. It’s hard to not think Ekwonu won’t be the guy; he fits all those things.
4. JAGUARS - Travon Walker, Edge
- This makes more sense IMO. With two camps split on Walker vs Hutch, makes sense they trade down for the value add.
5. GIANTS - Derek Stingley Jr, CB
- Combined with the rumors of Bradberry being  on the block, the Giants new DC was always at his best when he had the secondary that could hold up and he would apply massive amounts of pressure. The Giants have some solid pass rush pieces already in Ojulari (still only 21) and Roche and could go pass rush , but they need a difference maker at corner and after Stingley I see a drop off. I’m sure the Giants will feel they can get Stingley back on track to realize his ceiling, which is why he goes top 5.

6. PANTHERS - Charles Cross, LT
- Cross is a great scheme fit and is the best pass blocking OL in this draft. He makes a lot of sense. I think as long as the team shows improvements, Rhule be given 2022 and 2023 to produce a winner. I think the Panthers bring in competition for Darnold, amp up the OL to evaluate, and if draft high in 2023 allow Rhule a chance to grab “his QB” with one more year to produce.
7. GIANTS - Evan Neal, OL
- With reports of the medical being a concern, I could easily see the Giants drafting Kyle Hamilton to build an elite secondary and use the rest of the draft to build the OL, but assuming it’s something closer to fake news; they feel Neal is the better system fit between he and Cross.
8. FALCONS - Jermaine Johnson II, Edge
- Between Johnson and KT, I’m sure it’s a close evaluation. With the Falcons being in an clear rebuild and with their history of pass rush busts, I could see them going with Johnson over KT because he’s older, more mature, has less “personality” issues that might stick out more within a less established locker room.
9. SEAHAWKS - Kyle Hamilton, S
- With a need for pass rush, I could easily see Kayvon Thibodeaux going here, but the Seahawks have historically had a thing for tall, long, explosive, playmaking secondary players. They’re also going to absolutely go in a different route than what most would assume, so I see Hamilton fitting the bill for them. He would give them an elite safety unit to put some fear in opposing QBs.
10. RAVENS (trade) - Kayvon Thibodeaux, Edge
- After trading up to secure “their guy” the Jets, who are in the market for a WR with their next pick can trade down a few slots and still be within the WR run that’s very likely to take place. The Ravens have a great relationship with the Jets front office and rumors are the Jets are looking to trade out of the top 10. So this presents a win/win. Ravens give up picks 14, 100, 119 for pick 10 and a 2023 5th. Ravens move up and select what many considered to be a blue chip prospect heading into the year. As a team not in a rebuild they will feel they can handle any unique personality traits and effort questions. I’m sure they’ll also be somewhat reminded of when Haloti Ngata fell in his draft for some of the same prospect profile concerns.

So yeah, certainly far different than draft media, but combining how I feel about some of these prospects with what direction I could see teams going, and with some tea leave assumptions, I think it’s a possible route.

I think there’s a good chance Neal or Thibs falls to the Jets and a good chance the Ravens trade up for either player. I’d prefer Thibs because I think he’s on another tier, but I wouldn’t hate Neal at all. He’s very consistent and outside of the balance issues, I view him as a taller version of what I see with Kenyon Green… so it only makes sense that he too would have some potential injury concerns that could see him fall on draft day. 🤷🏾‍♂️ 

Edited April 28, 2022 by diamondbull424

[DreamKid]

On 4/7/2022 at 10:04 AM, DreamKid said:

I'm kind of surprised a certain player isn't being talked about more by Ravens fans. Kyle Hamilton. It seems like a lot of the social media "Wouldn't it be crazy if X fell????!!!!" talk(which there's been a ton of with us picking so close to the Top 10) is focused on Thibs, JJ, Cross, etc. Yet there's not really been a peep about Hamilton. Who imo might be the most likely to fall out of all of them.

Safeties literally fall in the draft all the f'n time, even the highly ranked ones. Add in that this is a pretty awesome Safety class and all the teams picking above us can easily grab a solid talent at the top of the 2nd or 3rd- and a feasible scenario in which Hamilton falls presents itself.

A couple points:

-Safety isn't the major need for us it was prior to the Marcus Williams signing, but we're still a club that uses a 3rd Safety on almost every defensive series. 

- Clark and Jefferson are both best around the LOS. We would frequently rotate Jimmy Smith or Brandon Carr over to FS on passing downs to then kick those two down. 

- We're essentially robbing Chuck Clark with the contract we have him on, and despite casual public perception- Safety is one the most valuable positions in the modern game. So no, we wouldn't be over investing in the position and as mentioned above 'diminishing returns' is not something we should worry about either. 

- EDC has tried to or succeeded in acquiring a major DB asset each and every year he's officially been the guy at GM. Thomas, Ramsey, Howard, Williams, etc. A blue chip talent will never be overlooked by him.

- We drafted an overaged CB convert in the 3rd Round last year because the FO felt he was a versatile and talented athlete that could take on different roles within this defense. Guys like Kyle Hamilton are Final Form Freiza of that mold, and it's clearly a skill set we're pursuing. 

- A decent amount of fans are calling for us to draft who they feel the BPA LB option is, Lloyd or Dean depending on who you ask. Relying on young and unproven talent at LB is something that's burned us repeatedly in recent years. Which is why we signed Fort, Bynes, and attempted to sign Wagner. There is no scenario where the FO just reverses on all of that and says "F it, let's roll with Queen and a Rookie for 22'... and use a Top 15 pick to get it done". That's not going to happen. We will 100% sign a Vet at some point and they will start opposite Queen while also likely rotating with Harrison/Welch. What could happen though is the FO places extra value on Hamilton because he does have the skillset to play $LB and WILL for this defense that is rarely in base. Interesting enough, he actually has a much bigger frame than Queen too. 6'4 220 with 33" arms. Turned 21 in March, he'll continue to mature physically. 

- Open field tackling was a major issue for this team last year. The screen game killed us and in general the quick/small ball approach has been a frequent counter to our scheme that looks to suffocate and devour any sort of developing routes. Kyle Hamilton is a competent and confident open field tackler with plus athleticism. So even though we're not maximizing positional value with a CB or OL selection, he immediately boosts our coverage ability/ceiling and addresses a severe defensive shortcoming from 21'.

_____________________

Probably spent much longer than I needed to explaining why we'd come to the very obvious conclusion of drafting Kyle Hamilton should he fall, but I wanted to try and hit it from all angles.

Also it should be noted that there's a large chance some team tries to leap frog us in the event a blue chip/elite talent does fall. Every club knows about the Ravens historic love for falling BPAs, and there are some major trade down candidates picking right up ahead of us. The Steelers, who pick at 20, are bringing Kyle Hamilton in for a visit. They traded up from 20 to 10 in the 2019 Draft to select Devin Bush, and shipped out their 21' first to trade for Minkah. They've been more aggressive as of late and other teams might be as well if a big name starts creeping out of the Top 10-12. 

^^^20 Days Ago. Hit the Kyle Hamilton scenario from all angles. 

[diamondbull424]

19 hours ago, DreamKid said:

^^^20 Days Ago. Hit the Kyle Hamilton scenario from all angles. 

Yeah you absolutely did.

[diamondbull424]

17

[diamondbull424]

On 10/23/2022 at 6:55 PM, diamondbull424 said:

17

😂 I must’ve been sleep posting. Well on that note.

Kyle Hamilton highlights. Looks like he was putting in some work. Can’t wait until he’s more experienced, he seems to be faster than both Stone and Clark, similarly sudden (which is to say average), and his angles seem to be improving. He could be a problem next season for sure.

Though he sort of needs to be as the opportunity cost stands at guys like Chris Olave who I really liked in 2021 as rated above Bateman (before he went back to school and I never cooled on him but with Brown and Bateman he was somewhat redundant) as well as Jordan Davis.