Trevor Lawrence is looking like a bad pick for the Jags

[.Buzz]

7 minutes ago, ET80 said:

I don't think you've ever read about Jack Easterby:

https://www.si.com/nfl/2020/12/10/ex-chaplain-jack-easterby-houston-texans-chaos-after-power-struggle-daily-cover

I'll take someone kicking me, or calling me a loser over someone calling my mother and telling them I'm up to no good, or having me followed around on my off days and then getting called out in team meetings.

You can say it's not as bad, but it's negligible at worst. Jack Easterby is Bruce Allen-level bad, and nothing is getting out as far as what's going on now - because Easterby did what Meyer wanted to do, he fired everyone who was leaking information (Amy Palcic, Jamey Rootes, Chris Olsen).

Did you not see the Texans cutting a legitimate LB in Zach Cunningham? Or trading current leading rusher Mark Ingram for a 7th round pick... in 2024? Or Amy Palcic, who was arguably the best person in the league at her job at the time? Or Rootes, who was employee #2 right behind Bob McNair?

Because if your statement is what you said, then you haven't been paying attention at all. Voices speak up and are immediately kicked out - all access is revoked and the team threatens legal action for any sort of leak following any sort of dismissal. I've heard rumors of NDAs to be completed for severance packages... can't validate it, but I would be surprised.

The upside is you were able to fire Meyer. Easterby? He might as well as be the team owner, ownership goes out of its way to protect him.

I'll give you this one. I'd counter with James Robinson as a better runner than anyone on the Texans, but I know he was sort of torpedoed by Meyer.

I’m aware of Easterby and the issues. I just refuse to believe anything could be worse than all the reports coming out (and have yet to come out) regarding behind the scenes in the locker room or during games that Urban has done. 
 

Regardless, don’t really care to do a measuring contest on who was more dysfunctional this past year. It’s clearly causing issues and no rookie is going to have success in this situation. Davis Mills looking a little bit better (from purely managing a game) on Sunday doesn’t really move the needle in an argument for me. Trevor has been throwing to journeyman who are #4/#5’s on most teams (if that) with no speed to take the top off nor get separation. At this point he honestly just looks like he wants to pack it in and get to the off-season and I don’t blame him.

[ET80]

2 minutes ago, .Buzz said:

I’m aware of Easterby and the issues. I just refuse to believe anything could be worse than all the reports coming out (and have yet to come out) regarding behind the scenes in the locker room or during games that Urban has done. 

...he literally got a man who Bob McNair considered as a son (Rootes) fired.

Do you think Urban Meyer could get Tony Khan fired? Yes or no?

3 minutes ago, .Buzz said:

Regardless, don’t really care to do a measuring contest on who was more dysfunctional this past year.

Fair...

[.Buzz]

Lawrence’s mechanics went from being largely squeaky clean to begin the year to having some clear issues as well. His footwork has gotten sloppy and he obviously doesn’t trust his receivers. Pretty sure after the 6 drops Sunday he now either leads the league or is tied with 30 on the season.

An entire season of incompetence is going to wear down a guy. If someone wants to be worried about that then I get it. Think we all know if this off-season they don’t load up the cupboard to give him some support from a weapon standpoint then there’s going to be serious issues. 

[ET80]

1 minute ago, .Buzz said:

Lawrence’s mechanics went from being largely squeaky clean to begin the year to having some clear issues as well. His footwork has gotten sloppy and he obviously doesn’t trust his receivers. Pretty sure after the 6 drops Sunday he now either leads the league or is tied with 30 on the season.

An entire season of incompetence is going to wear down a guy. If someone wants to be worried about that then I get it. Think we all know if this off-season they don’t load up the cupboard to give him some support from a weapon standpoint then there’s going to be serious issues. 

This is probably what I was leaning towards as well. It's a drag, and that impacts some differently than others. Chad Ocho Cinco called it "the drip" when you slowly start sinking to the level of incompetence around you.

I don't think it's a death knell - but I think the mechanics can turn into a significant issue if not addressed.

[pwny]

4 hours ago, Tk3 said:

This is a false flag that I see over and over again here

Just because other QBs would also fail in Jacksonville, doesn't mean that Lawrence isn't failing in Jacksonville

They need to fix his situation ASAP or else none of this matters

It doesn't matter if its Lawrence's fault or not. Its a bad season either way

It in fact does matter what the source is. The outcome this year may be the same regardless of the source, but evaluations of him as a player himself and properly understanding who he is, what he’s shown and what changes need to be made are important discussions to be had when it comes to those in charge of making those changes. And having those discussions on the forum are engaging and worthy of having. We can discuss the problems, the things that need to be addressed, assess blame and then make evaluations based on the quality of the effort to rectify them. They need to fix his situation ASAP, but what does that fix look like? Is it giving him weapons and coaching support so that he can grow into a franchise QB, or is it building a team around him that’s good at one year so that he can lead the team to one good year and then be cast off shortly afterwards like Bortles?
 

Otherwise, we could just delete every post in this thread, create a new one that says “Trevor Lawrence has had a bad 2021” and then lock the thread. There’s nothing else that needs to be said if it doesn’t matter wherein the blame lies or if there’s no value in denoting whether or not the failures this season can be used as an evaluation as to where he currently stands.

[lancerman]

5 hours ago, .Buzz said:

Lawrence’s mechanics went from being largely squeaky clean to begin the year to having some clear issues as well. His footwork has gotten sloppy and he obviously doesn’t trust his receivers. Pretty sure after the 6 drops Sunday he now either leads the league or is tied with 30 on the season.

An entire season of incompetence is going to wear down a guy. If someone wants to be worried about that then I get it. Think we all know if this off-season they don’t load up the cupboard to give him some support from a weapon standpoint then there’s going to be serious issues. 

We've seen QB's regress in bad situations. See pretty much every QB the Jets tried to develop in the last 10 years or so. Sanchez, Smith, etc all showed some sparks at the beginning, then fell completely apart. 

The big concern Jags fans should have with Lawrence is that he's in a hole where it's historically difficult for a QB to come out of it and be a serviceable NFL player. There are some exceptions and you got to hope Lawrence ends up being one. But you do have to be concerned that the dream prospect who is supposed to lead the team into the future isn't looking at least a little competent. 

[.Buzz]

11 minutes ago, lancerman said:

We've seen QB's regress in bad situations. See pretty much every QB the Jets tried to develop in the last 10 years or so. Sanchez, Smith, etc all showed some sparks at the beginning, then fell completely apart. 

The big concern Jags fans should have with Lawrence is that he's in a hole where it's historically difficult for a QB to come out of it and be a serviceable NFL player. There are some exceptions and you got to hope Lawrence ends up being one. But you do have to be concerned that the dream prospect who is supposed to lead the team into the future isn't looking at least a little competent. 

He doesn’t look a little competent? Are we watching him at all here or?

[lancerman]

4 minutes ago, .Buzz said:

He doesn’t look a little competent? Are we watching him at all here or?

I mean he's playing outright bad. In this league, making some good plays, but still ending up mostly in the negative is a bad thing. He needs to improve and improve drastically to have a real career in this league. 

[.Buzz]

3 minutes ago, lancerman said:

I mean he's playing outright bad. In this league, making some good plays, but still ending up mostly in the negative is a bad thing. He needs to improve and improve drastically to have a real career in this league. 

 

[thrILL!]

6 hours ago, ET80 said:

Do you think Urban Meyer could get Tony Khan fired?

If he invited him to his Pint House and got him hammered who knows?

[lancerman]

5 hours ago, .Buzz said:

 

That's all well and good, but nearly every year there is a highly touted QB who is drafted to a horrible team that doesn't look as bad as Lawrence. Baker Mayfield got drafted to a team that was 1-31 when he got there and set the rookie TD record. And he's not even considered a big hit. People are debating whether the Browns should pay him. Zach Wilson is in nearly as bad of a situation and is statistically very similar and people already are writing him off because it's just rare to play that bad and develop into something worthwhile. The Texans are just as trash as the Jags this year and Mills has looked better across the board than Lawrence. 

I'm not going to say he can't develop. But he's playing bad enough that you can't just dismiss it entirely on the team and talent. He's playing at a level where he would be remembered forever as the go to example of a guy who played awful his rookie year and then turned it around and became a legit franchise QB. It's not impossible, but it's a big hill he has to climb now. 

[notthatbluestuff]

5 minutes ago, lancerman said:

Zach Wilson is in nearly as bad of a situation and is statistically very similar and people already are writing him off because it's just rare to play that bad and develop into something worthwhile.

We'll get to compare them directly on Sunday. 

[.Buzz]

5 hours ago, lancerman said:

That's all well and good, but nearly every year there is a highly touted QB who is drafted to a horrible team that doesn't look as bad as Lawrence. Baker Mayfield got drafted to a team that was 1-31 when he got there and set the rookie TD record. And he's not even considered a big hit. People are debating whether the Browns should pay him. Zach Wilson is in nearly as bad of a situation and is statistically very similar and people already are writing him off because it's just rare to play that bad and develop into something worthwhile. The Texans are just as trash as the Jags this year and Mills has looked better across the board than Lawrence. 

I'm not going to say he can't develop. But he's playing bad enough that you can't just dismiss it entirely on the team and talent. He's playing at a level where he would be remembered forever as the go to example of a guy who played awful his rookie year and then turned it around and became a legit franchise QB. It's not impossible, but it's a big hill he has to climb now. 

I’m not sure where you’re reading me saying “None of what is happening right now has anything to do with the play of Lawrence, he looks fantastic but everything around him is a trainwreck.” But if that’s what you’re taking it as, I’m not.

I’m very aware he needs to play better but the Jaguars organization who have very well been Browns level inept for the past decade pre-Baker (literally went on a 20 game losing streak in an era where parity is at probably one of the leagues highest points) need to show competency and put a young player in a feasible situation. The talent and ceiling didn’t disappear. Not everyone is equipped as a young player making the jump to overcome such obstacles, regardless of talent and tools.

[pwny]

5 hours ago, lancerman said:

That's all well and good, but nearly every year there is a highly touted QB who is drafted to a horrible team that doesn't look as bad as Lawrence. Baker Mayfield got drafted to a team that was 1-31 when he got there and set the rookie TD record. And he's not even considered a big hit. People are debating whether the Browns should pay him. Zach Wilson is in nearly as bad of a situation and is statistically very similar and people already are writing him off because it's just rare to play that bad and develop into something worthwhile. The Texans are just as trash as the Jags this year and Mills has looked better across the board than Lawrence. 

I'm not going to say he can't develop. But he's playing bad enough that you can't just dismiss it entirely on the team and talent. He's playing at a level where he would be remembered forever as the go to example of a guy who played awful his rookie year and then turned it around and became a legit franchise QB. It's not impossible, but it's a big hill he has to climb now. 

I don’t know why we’re comparing Baker to Lawrence as if the situations are comparable when rookie Nick Chubb >>>>>>>> this year of James Robinson, Jarvis Landry is an all time great compared to every single receiver on the Jaguars, Njoku was a better receiving target at that time than anyone on the Jaguars, and Callaway and Higgins likely would each have been the second best receiving target on the team even if Chark was healthy. On top of that, the offensive line did a really good job protecting him. And while Hue was a disaster of a coach who got fired midseason, he has absolutely nothing on the train wreck of constant distraction, players revolting, and failures of Urban Meyer. 

And the Jets and Texans? Yeah, they’re bad. But it’s again nothing on the Jags. Both of those guys have gotten more stability from their coaching and locker room, better protection, and have better receivers.

Comparing Trevor’s situation to these other QBs and acting like they have gotten more with the same is really missing just how obscenely bad the situation he is in. We’re about to hit week 16 and multiple receivers still don’t know what routes they’re supposed to be running multiple times a game. Players revolted against Tom Coughlin two years ago to the point that the NFLPA had to issue a statement telling players who were to become Free Agents not to play for the Jaguars. To my knowledge that’s the only time in history the NFLPA has ever had to step in and straight up tell players to stay away from a specific team. And yet, by all accounts that wasn’t even in the same stratosphere of damage going on in that locker room this year. This is maybe the worst situation any QB has ever been in at any point in their careers, and it’s certainly the worst situation any rookie has been in since the current era of passing began.

Trevor has not been perfect and it’s clear he still has developing to do. Not a single person is arguing that isn’t the case. But when you pair a rookie QB with an all time bad group of weapons who haven’t even been properly taught the playbook, are bad route runners, and can’t catch the ball, low tier protection, play calling that has routinely ignored the best player on the team, and a locker room situation where multiple people who have covered the NFL for 30+ years have said they have never seen anything that even comes close to what they have heard and seen come out of this building this year, you’re going to have a disastrous season. It’s an inevitability; there’s literally no one who could come into this team in their rookie form and not have a whole of a season that just looks like a complete disaster. But actually watching the games, watching All-22, it’s also obvious that Trevor has played quite a bit better through the season than the stats bear out. The player you’ve been able to see on the field through the year is one that looks the part of a guy who can develop into something special, regardless of the stats saying that he looks the part of an all time bust. 

Now, if you want to say that the Jaguars are an unmitigated disaster and the last decade of roster building, coach finding and player relations lends itself heavily to the fact that they will be completely incapable of fielding anything that resembles an NFL roster of talent around him, and that itself will lead to him never developing so long as he’s a Jaguar, then I’m not sure that anyone would disagree with you too hard. But if you actually watch what he’s doing in field and have done so for the whole season, I genuinely do not know how you could come to some of these conclusions being posted in this thread. 

[LinderFournette]

7 hours ago, notthatbluestuff said:

We'll get to compare them directly on Sunday. 

That's if the game does go on as scheduled.