MNF: Raiders (3-0) @ Chargers (2-1) -

[Xenos]

7 hours ago, NYRaider said:

I'll accept that, if we blow you out will you accept that Herbert is more or less a modern day Kirk Cousins? 

Herbert a modern day Kirk Cousins….

[SBLIII]

1 minute ago, Xenos said:

Herbert a modern day Kirk Cousins….

NY is hyped about the Raiders after all the losing seasons, I get it.

[RaidersAreOne]

It's fun thinking about how good our O has been without our RB1 and both starting G's. Unfortunately Jacobs is always dinged up and can't be trusted to stay healthy for all 16 games.

Getting him back would be big.

[ET80]

9 hours ago, Bearerofnews said:

And if we beat y’all by more than 3. Heinickie is better than Carr.

9 hours ago, NYRaider said:

I'll accept that, if we blow you out will you accept that Herbert is more or less a modern day Kirk Cousins? 

[MWil23]

Am I seeing correctly that the Chargers are giving up 170+ rush yards per game?

 

[Bearerofnews]

11 minutes ago, ET80 said:

[Hunter2_1]

41 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

Am I seeing correctly that the Chargers are giving up 170+ rush yards per game?

 

They stink stopping the run, but…there could be method to their madness

 

Staley is all about putting a roof on your attack. That philosophy is all about limiting big plays, and letting you have have the underneath and/or run game. Trade explosive scoring plays for FGs so to speak. I’ve listened to a few podcasts and watched a few geeky vids on his defense. I don’t buy it’s ‘revolutionary’ or anything, two high safeties is hardly ground breaking. But stats do show it’s hard to land a kill shot on the Rams last year and so far the Chargers (plus still the rams).

 

makes this matchup interesting actually. Raiders have been hot on big plays but not great on ground. Strength vs strength. 

[Xenos]

41 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

Am I seeing correctly that the Chargers are giving up 170+ rush yards per game?

 

Part of that is by design since Staley’s system is built on stopping the pass, especially the explosive plays, than stopping the run. However, the rush defense can definitely be better. But a lot of the issue is missing our run stopping DT in Justin Jones, and sloppy mistakes in diagnosing a run play and tackling. It needs to tighten up since we’re facing better running teams in the next two weeks.
 

The defense is also doing a decent job of keeping opponents out of the end zone though.

[MWil23]

3 minutes ago, Hunter2_1 said:

They stink stopping the run, but…there could be method to their madness

 

Staley is all about putting a roof on your attack. That philosophy is all about limiting big plays, and letting you have have the underneath and/or run game. Trade explosive scoring plays for FGs so to speak. I’ve listened to a few podcasts and watched a few geeky vids on his defense. I don’t buy it’s ‘revolutionary’ or anything, two high safeties is hardly ground breaking. But stats do show it’s hard to land a kill shot on the Rams last year and so far the Chargers (plus still the rams).

 

makes this matchup interesting actually. Raiders have been hot on big plays but not great on ground. Strength vs strength. 

 

2 minutes ago, Xenos said:

Part of that is by design since Staley’s system is built on stopping the pass, especially the explosive plays, than stopping the run. However, the rush defense can definitely be better. But a lot of the issue is missing our run stopping DT in Justin Jones, and sloppy mistakes in diagnosing a run play and tackling. It needs to tighten up since we’re facing better running teams in the next two weeks.
 

The defense is also doing a decent job of keeping opponents out of the end zone though.

I understand the "bend but don't break" philosophy to an extent, and then hoping for a condensed Red Zone to limit Touchdowns, but that's still an alarming statistic, especially considering the Ravens and Browns are a couple of the best teams in the AFC (and they have to play each).

Throw in the fact that philosophy also inherently keeps Herbert on the sidelines, and that's interesting. 

[Xenos]

7 minutes ago, Hunter2_1 said:

They stink stopping the run, but…there could be method to their madness

 

Staley is all about putting a roof on your attack. That philosophy is all about limiting big plays, and letting you have have the underneath and/or run game. Trade explosive scoring plays for FGs so to speak. I’ve listened to a few podcasts and watched a few geeky vids on his defense. I don’t buy it’s ‘revolutionary’ or anything, two high safeties is hardly ground breaking. But stats do show it’s hard to land a kill shot on the Rams last year and so far the Chargers (plus still the rams).

 

makes this matchup interesting actually. Raiders have been hot on big plays but not great on ground. Strength vs strength. 

I don’t think it’s revolutionary but it does work so far given where offenses are currently. Maybe cyclical? If you have a subscription, this is a nice breakdown of what offenses are trying to do to beat it.

https://theathletic.com/2817355/2021/09/10/how-offenses-need-to-adapt-to-the-rise-of-the-vic-fangio-brandon-staley-defenses/

Quote

So, to recap here: the most effective ways to combat this defense include more running (which is inherently less efficient), more short completions (which require longer, mistake-free drives), and simpler play calls less capable of creating chunk gains. With answers like that, there’s a reason this system of defense is about to take the league by storm.

 

[Hunter2_1]

1 minute ago, MWil23 said:

 

I understand the "bend but don't break" philosophy to an extent, and then hoping for a condensed Red Zone to limit Touchdowns, but that's still an alarming statistic, especially considering the Ravens and Browns are a couple of the best teams in the AFC (and they have to play each).

Throw in the fact that philosophy also inherently keeps Herbert on the sidelines, and that's interesting. 

Yeah I’m not overly keen, but another wrinkle to it is that they’re betting offenses are less patient than they are. They will eventually be unable to resist a big play, and then subsequently put themselves behind the 8 ball with an incompletion (or hopefully a turnover). 
 

If an O is happy to just dink, dunk and run them to death then they will be tested. Not sure what the story is so far though and whether they are putting opposition offenses in 3rd down and getting off the field a lot? @Xenos

[Hunter2_1]

Oh there you go.

[Xenos]

From the same article above, here was one way Staley tried to improve run defense last year despite having a lighter box.

Quote

Along with being unpredictable in coverage, the Rams also do an expert job of staying one step ahead with their fronts. Even as teams turn to the run game as a means of attacking Staley-influenced defenses, the various fronts and unconventional personnel packages that the Rams use also make finding chunk gains on the ground a challenge. Most of the league’s most potent run games do an expert job of creating angles with various motions to build in cutback lanes that turn 5-yard runs into 25-yard gashes. That’s harder to pull off when a defense is consistently lining up in ways that are nearly impossible to predict. “A lot of people are trained to say, ‘I’m taking this block to the Mike linebacker,’” Hackett said. “But then the linebacker’s not [in that spot]. He’s way over there … That defense was rare. It was something where we had to think to ourselves, ‘Let’s breathe.’ Let’s simplify it down. Let’s coach up the techniques and really take a step back to major basics.”

 

Edited October 4, 2021 by Xenos

[MWil23]

2 minutes ago, Xenos said:

I don’t think it’s revolutionary but it does work so far given where offenses are currently. Maybe cyclical? If you have a subscription, this is a nice breakdown of what offenses are trying to do to beat it.

https://theathletic.com/2817355/2021/09/10/how-offenses-need-to-adapt-to-the-rise-of-the-vic-fangio-brandon-staley-defenses/

 

 

2 minutes ago, Hunter2_1 said:

Yeah I’m not overly keen, but another wrinkle to it is that they’re betting offenses are less patient than they are. They will eventually be unable to resist a big play, and then subsequently put themselves behind the 8 ball with an incompletion (or hopefully a turnover). 
 

If an O is happy to just dink, dunk and run them to death then they will be tested. Not sure what the story is so far though and whether they are putting opposition offenses in 3rd down and getting off the field a lot? @Xenos

It's a great strategy against a team like KC or even Dallas, but against teams like Cleveland, Baltimore, New England, and Minnesota I'll be intrigued to see that, because usually they're very patient teams. 

[Hunter2_1]

2 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

 

It's a great strategy against a team like KC or even Dallas, but against teams like Cleveland, Baltimore, New England, and Minnesota I'll be intrigued to see that, because usually they're very patient teams. 

Absolutely. Intriguing. Wonder how LV will play them tonight. Can see Gruden being like…ok, defend this…*bomb*
 

rubs hands 

Edited October 4, 2021 by Hunter2_1