OBJ Thread

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

1 minute ago, buno67 said:

GMs don’t do that. Team doctors would do that...

And before we go down the next dumb path, the physicians work for UH and are partnered with the Browns.  
 

They aren’t shtheels who do what a GM tells them to.

[mtmmike]

1 minute ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Team physicians do, not GM’s.  And teams can’t just demand a player get a medical exam, without their consent mind you, whenever they want.  That’s not how this works, that’s not how any of this works 😂 

The only physical or MRI OBJ needs to worry about will come from the team he’s going to sign with.

Ok your inactive till you do because you said you need surgery but want to wait.

I have to cover my team from liability 

Frankly I think your wrong because I do not think for 1 minute that Obj is smarter then the geeks and Stefanski.

But keep talking so far I am winning. Because obj is not even practicing let alone playing.

[mtmmike]

9 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

And before we go down the next dumb path, the physicians work for UH and are partnered with the Browns.  
 

They aren’t shtheels who do what a GM tells them to.

Excellent post you type really well

How come Obj is not practicing

And how the union has not filed yet.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

4 minutes ago, mtmmike said:

Ok your inactive till you do because you said you need surgery but want to wait.

I have to cover my team from liability 

So in your world these teams are employing these guys to play professional football and don’t have liability waivers?

Im assuming I can’t take a ride through Yellowstone with your tour company without signing a liability waiver, but football is good??

4 minutes ago, mtmmike said:

Frankly I think your wrong because I do not think for 1 minute that Obj is smarter then the geeks and Stefanski.

It doesn’t take a genius to know the rules and know how to bend them if you’re not worried about burning bridges.

This rule was put in place because this exact same thing has happened previously.

4 minutes ago, mtmmike said:

But keep talking so far I am winning. Because obj is not even practicing let alone playing.

Which was entirely his plan, right?

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

5 minutes ago, mtmmike said:

Excellent post you type really well

thanks mike, that means a lot coming from you.

5 minutes ago, mtmmike said:

How come Obj is not practicing

And how the union has not filed yet.

Mike workin in the league office now apparently lol

[mtmmike]

1 minute ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

So in your world these teams are employing these guys to play professional football and don’t have liability waivers?

Im assuming I can’t take a ride through Yellowstone with your tour company without signing a liability waiver, but football is good??

It doesn’t take a genius to know the rules and know how to bend them if you’re not worried about burning bridges.

This rule was put in place because this exact same thing has happened previously.

Which was entirely his plan, right?

You do not know what your talking about

I am trying to talk football 

Here is a simple question can I put

Obj on inactive list 

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

1 minute ago, mtmmike said:

You do not know what your talking about

I am trying to talk football 

Here is a simple question can I put

Obj on inactive list 

[brownie man]

He should’ve been gone by now 

[mtmmike]

1 minute ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

This is how you spell Yes.

No people do not sign waivers with me I have been in business for 22 years 

No tickets

No citations

No parking tickets

4 star rated company 

Cheaper to pay insurance 

Not sued 1 time

Your a genius 😄

[Empire Lies]

38 minutes ago, buno67 said:

If the elite talent was there then why is he dropping very catchable balls? Looking at the big drops on 4th vs chargers and Cardinals, another drop vs Denver as well. 

there is no way in hell a team trades a 2nd rd or 3rd for his $13m contract. OBJ was on the trading block with this season and 2 more years left on the deal and no team wanted to take him and only 2 teams looked into him and at least talking to the browns.

When you post stuff like this it's why I seriously question your understanding of the game, whether you watch other games/teams in the NFL, and have any historical account of drop rates.

You can't just go off of emotion and feeling. There's data to look at and film to watch. When you have debates with people data free and feeling based it's just going to be two people talking past each other. When I feel a certain way like "man OBJ seems to be dropping the ball a lot" I look to see where he is league wide and b/c I watch other games and highlight shows and weekly review podcast (PFF or others) I see/hear about critical moment mistakes be they drops in critical moments by top WRs or otherwise.

Let's take a look at drop rate this year and Drop Rate this year (and years prior with OBJ here)

What's on field is a WR that's got his legs under him, still has plenty of speed and juice, has had some drop issues returning to football after a year out away from live game snaps. He's had big time blocking games. Gotten open. And coaches and GMs can't forget what they've seen from OBJ early in his career. a 3rd at least is realistic for sure. 2nd possibly depending on the WR options available to teams.

---------

2021- Notable WRs Who Dropped the Ball at a Higher Rate compared to Odell Beckham Jr. OBJ has a 5.9% drop rate

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2021/receiving_advanced.htm

**Drop Rate (i.e., Drops Per Target) is more meaningful than Total Drops as it controls for varying opportunities. OBJ's drop rate 5.9%**

1.) Corey Davis - 11.3% Drop Rate

2.) DeVante Parker - 9.3% Drop Rate

3.) Keenan Allen - 7.2% Drop Rate

4.) Cooper Kupp - 6.7% Drop Rate

5.)  Ja'Marr Chasete - 6.7% Drop Rate

6.) Justin Jefferson - 6.3% Drop Rate

7.) DJ Moore - 6.2% Drop Rate

8.) OBJ - 5.9% Drop Rate

9.) Tyreeek Hill - 5.6% Drop Rate

10.) AJ Brown - 5.6% Drop Rate

-----

Are Cooper Kupp, Justin Jefferson, and Keenan Allen good? Point is OBJ drops are similar or lesser than other great WRs in the league. Drops happen

----

Years prior drop rate - Expand this thread for the past drop rate comparison with OBJ.

On 10/14/2021 at 8:03 PM, Empire Lies said:

Any quality assessor of traditional football scouting analysis and analytics knows the following are true:

1.) The vast majority of time in Cleveland OBJ's blocking is of good to great quality
2.) The vast majority of time in Cleveland OBJ's routes are of good quality and is getting open.
3.) OBJ's drop rate is better than other top WRs in the league each year he's been in Cleveland (See the next section for specifics on Drops)
4.) The vast majority of time in Cleveland OBJ's effort has been of great quality

----------

Let's talk Drops You Non-All22 Watching, Analytically Know-Nothing Charlatans:

**Drop Rate (i.e., Drops Per Target) is more meaningful than Total Drops as it controls for varying opportunities**

2019 - Notable WRs Who Dropped the Ball at a Higher Rate compared to Odell Beckham Jr. (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2019/receiving_advanced.htm)

1.) DK Metcalf (Drop Rate 7% in 15 Games; 7 Drops Total)

2.) Stefon Diggs (Drop Rate 6.4% in 15 Games; 6 Drops Total)

3.) Mike Evans (Drop Rate 5.9% in 13 Games; 7 Drops Total)

4.) Davante Adams (Drop Rate 5.5% in 12 Games; 7 Drops Total)

5.) Brandin Cooks (Drop Rate 5.6% in 14 Games; 6 Drops Total)

6.) Odell Beckham Jr. (Drop Rate 5.3% in 15 Games; 7 Drops Total) 

2020 - Notable WRs Who Dropped the Ball at a Higher Rate compared to Odell Beckham Jr. (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2020/receiving_advanced.htm

In 2020, Odell had a drop rate of 2.3 in 7 games; Total Drops 1). If he kept that pace, it would've been exceptional, BUT let's assume he would've matched his drop rate of the season prior at 5.3%; let's then look at the notable WRs in 2020 who exceeded that drop rate.

**Drop Rate (i.e., Drops Per Target) is more meaningful than Total Drops as it controls for varying opportunities**

1.) Adam Thielen (Drop Rate 6.5% in 15 Games; 7 Drops Total) 

2.) DK Metcalf (Drop Rate 6.2% in 16 Games; 8 Drops Total) 

3.) Tyler Lockett (Drop Rate 6.1% in 16 Games; 8 Drops Total) 

4.) Jarvis Landry (Drop Rate 5.9% in 15 Games; 6 Drops Total) 

5.) DJ Moore (Drop Rate 5.9% in 15 Games; 7 Drops Total) 

6.) Devante Parker (Drop Rate 5.8% in 14 Games; 6 Drops Total) 

-------

--------

Now, that we've addressed the drops thing let's talk about OBJ getting open. He gets open. Watch the film man for goodness sakes. It's not bias or hate of Baker or love of OBJ. He gets open. He's moving well. He's beating people with speed just a few games back from ACL injury recovery.

---------

38 minutes ago, buno67 said:

there is no way in hell a team trades a 2nd rd or 3rd for his $13m contract. OBJ was on the trading block with this season and 2 more years left on the deal and no team wanted to take him and only 2 teams looked into him and at least talking to the browns.

OBJ's Salary for next year 2022 and 2023 are Non-Guaranteed much like Olivier Vernon's last year contract. That means if the Browns make it to the offseason teams can negotiate the contract moving forward with OBJ.

----------

38 minutes ago, buno67 said:

he’s putting out that he wants to keep playing but why was he so quiet when his dad and Lebron were running their mouths???? His silence was deafening. He could have squashed everything by defending himself, the browns, or baker. in the Steelers game he showed his true colors with his halfass catch attempts. No celebrating with Johnson or showing hype with Baker after picking up a huge 4th down. 

These men don't owe you sh*t. What they eat doesn't make you sh*t. "Running there mouths?" lol ... Lebron is a friend and cares about OBJ and his dad is his father. They are free men that can do what they want.  You are a true fanatic. OBJ's silence is smart business and will see him cut and on a different team soon. I don't agree with it at all, but it's a calculated smart business move that will work out soon for him and his family. My point has been the Browns should've held out to get something in the offseason.

Not celebrating Johnson? Are you serious... who gives a f*ck. JC Tretter wasn't celebrating either. They both went to the sideline. Other players as well. Who cares.

You must've never watched the WR position and seen how many of the great WRs (not even saying OBJ is still great) act in their body language.

He gave effort on the play in question that many of you non all22 watchers say he did halfazz attempt on. If you can watch that play and see it that way that only speaks to how you see football.

 

  

On 11/1/2021 at 5:36 PM, Empire Lies said:

Gameday impression/tv copy leads to false assumptions in both the positive AND negative direction for numerous plays and player performance.

All things considered Baker did enough to give the Browns a chance to win the game, but there's reality and false perception when it comes to Baker's play versus OBJ or anyone else.

The truth is in the ALL22. The eye in the sky doesn't lie.

Disagreement on this board/forum is fueled by the fact that people literally are not seeing the same things when considering the TV copy/announcer frames of plays VS the All22 review to better understand the various factors effecting positive or negative play outcomes.

It's literally a completely different picture of things that people have in their mind.

 

 

Honestly, on this forum there's the biggest difference of opinion between people that watch the ALL22 review of the game a few times (hardly anyone on here) that have the benefit of comparing how that lens on the game relates to the first impression of game outcomes via the tv copy.

For most fans, there's the reactionary opinion formed live on the tv copy and people then are unwilling to adjust their opinion either way based on the evidence the all22 provides.

Often one thinks the QB is to blame on a tv copy but the all22 shows a more complex picture and/or the opposite.

Same is true for WR issues.

So much stood out from the All22 this week as it does every week. A lot of Baker's misses this week were due to him anticipating pressures that didn't manifest and his need to hitch extra times or pat the ball more to get more on the throws due to shoulder injury body mechanics. 

There's so many open plays. Mutliple errors by oline, wr route, baker missed throw/read. 

 

Edited November 4, 2021 by Empire Lies

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

 

6 minutes ago, mtmmike said:

Your a genius 😄

amazing every time.

[buno67]

20 minutes ago, Empire Lies said:

When you post stuff like this it's why I seriously question your understanding of the game, whether you watch other games/teams in the NFL, and have any historical account of drop rates.

You can't just go off of emotion and feeling. There's data to look at and film to watch. When you have debates with people data free and feeling based it's just going to be two people talking past each other. When I feel a certain way like "man OBJ seems to be dropping the ball a lot" I look to see where he is league wide and b/c I watch other games and highlight shows and weekly review podcast (PFF or others) I see/hear about critical moment mistakes be they drops in critical moments by top WRs or otherwise.

Let's take a look at drop rate this year and Drop Rate this year (and years prior with OBJ here)

What's on field is a WR that's got his legs under him, still has plenty of speed and juice, has had some drop issues returning to football after a year out away from live game snaps. He's had big time blocking games. Gotten open. And coaches and GMs can't forget what they've seen from OBJ early in his career. a 3rd at least is realistic for sure. 2nd possibly depending on the WR options available to teams.

---------

2021- Notable WRs Who Dropped the Ball at a Higher Rate compared to Odell Beckham Jr. OBJ has a 5.9% drop rate

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2021/receiving_advanced.htm

**Drop Rate (i.e., Drops Per Target) is more meaningful than Total Drops as it controls for varying opportunities. OBJ's drop rate 5.9%**

1.) Corey Davis - 11.3% Drop Rate

2.) DeVante Parker - 9.3% Drop Rate

3.) Keenan Allen - 7.2% Drop Rate

4.) Cooper Kupp - 6.7% Drop Rate

5.)  Ja'Marr Chasete - 6.7% Drop Rate

6.) Justin Jefferson - 6.3% Drop Rate

7.) DJ Moore - 6.2% Drop Rate

8.) OBJ - 5.9% Drop Rate

9.) Tyreeek Hill - 5.6% Drop Rate

10.) AJ Brown - 5.6% Drop Rate

-----

Are Cooper Kupp, Justin Jefferson, and Keenan Allen good? Point is OBJ drops are similar or lesser than other great WRs in the league. Drops happen

----

Years prior drop rate - Expand this thread for the past drop rate comparison with OBJ.

--------

Now, that we've addressed the drops thing let's talk about OBJ getting open. He gets open. Watch the film man for goodness sakes. It's not bias or hate of Baker or love of OBJ. He gets open. He's moving well. He's beating people with speed just a few games back from ACL injury recovery.

---------

OBJ's Salary for next year 2022 and 2023 are Non-Guaranteed much like Olivier Vernon's last year contract. That means if the Browns make it to the offseason teams can negotiate the contract moving forward with OBJ.

----------

These men don't owe you sh*t. What they eat doesn't make you sh*t. "Running there mouths?" lol ... Lebron is a friend and cares about OBJ and his dad is his father. They are free men that can do what they want.  You are a true fanatic. OBJ's silence is smart business and will see him cut and on a different team soon. I don't agree with it at all, but it's a calculated smart business move that will work out soon for him and his family. My point has been the Browns should've held out to get something in the offseason.

Not celebrating Johnson? Are you serious... who gives a f*ck. JC Tretter wasn't celebrating either. They both went to the sideline. Other players as well. Who cares.

You must've never watched the WR position and seen how many of the great WRs (not even saying OBJ is still great) act in their body language.

He gave effort on the play in question that many of you non all22 watchers say he did halfazz attempt on. If you can watch that play and see it that way that only speaks to how you see football.

 

  

 

When it takes 4-5 swipes of my phone to get through a post. I ain’t reading that. Need to learn to add TL;DR summaries 

my guess is you used the word Derp or some form of it about 6x and bragged about watching All-22

Edited November 4, 2021 by buno67

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

1 minute ago, buno67 said:

When it takes 4-5 swipes of my phone to get through a post. I ain’t reading that. Need to learn TL;DR.

my guess is you used the word Derp or some form of it about 6x and bragged about watching All-22

He’s not writing that for you or me or anyone else at this point. He writing that for him, because literally no one is reading that nonsense and engaging with it at this point.

[buno67]

2 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

He’s not writing that for you or me or anyone else at this point. He writing that for him, because literally no one is reading that nonsense and engaging with it at this point.

My only reaction is “Gotta be on the spectrum”

[buno67]