Is this the worst Browns regime?

[43M]

Even though Ive said from the get go I thought Hue was a very overrated coaching decision and I still do not believe he is the coach to turn Cleveland around, his regime deserves one more year.   If they dont give it to him, Haslam is a complete idiot (if that hasnt already been proven),   I mean, they had to know this was going to take time if the plan all along was to start from scratch and build the team with draft picks whilst letting almost all the veteran players and even former first round picks go in favor of building the team with players that Hue wanted.   And if Haslam wasnt aware that that WAS the plan, well, he has no business running anything related to football operations and should find someone to run things while he sits back and sips on some scotch.      Or better yet, for the sake of Browns fans, sell the team....again.

Browns should have the first overall pick and probably the 8-12 pick from the Texans.    Plus a few second rounders and alot of money to spend in a free agent class that should have a few veteran QBs they could throw tons of money at.    If they got Saquon Barkley at number 1, paid Kirk Cousins a fortune and they get Josh Gordon and Corey Coleman playing together in 2018, the offense could honestly be quite good next year, and they have some young developing talent on defense with just a few pieces missing, and they could probably patch them with their other draft picks and more cap room.

Regardless, Hue should get one more year.   As stated, they arent going to land a proven NFL head coach and would just end up hiring a guy who will want to undo alot of things Hue did over the last few years and the process will start over again.    That may ultimately end up happening, but the Browns should really go all out this upcoming offseason, because if not, its likely another step back unless they get lucky and find a Sean McVay type, but knowing Haslam, he would go out and hire Ben McAdoo shortly after he is fired from the Giants.  

[Iamcanadian]

On 11/14/2017 at 2:14 AM, FourThreeMafia said:

Even though Ive said from the get go I thought Hue was a very overrated coaching decision and I still do not believe he is the coach to turn Cleveland around, his regime deserves one more year.   If they dont give it to him, Haslam is a complete idiot (if that hasnt already been proven),   I mean, they had to know this was going to take time if the plan all along was to start from scratch and build the team with draft picks whilst letting almost all the veteran players and even former first round picks go in favor of building the team with players that Hue wanted.   And if Haslam wasnt aware that that WAS the plan, well, he has no business running anything related to football operations and should find someone to run things while he sits back and sips on some scotch.      Or better yet, for the sake of Browns fans, sell the team....again.

Browns should have the first overall pick and probably the 8-12 pick from the Texans.    Plus a few second rounders and alot of money to spend in a free agent class that should have a few veteran QBs they could throw tons of money at.    If they got Saquon Barkley at number 1, paid Kirk Cousins a fortune and they get Josh Gordon and Corey Coleman playing together in 2018, the offense could honestly be quite good next year, and they have some young developing talent on defense with just a few pieces missing, and they could probably patch them with their other draft picks and more cap room.

Regardless, Hue should get one more year.   As stated, they arent going to land a proven NFL head coach and would just end up hiring a guy who will want to undo alot of things Hue did over the last few years and the process will start over again.    That may ultimately end up happening, but the Browns should really go all out this upcoming offseason, because if not, its likely another step back unless they get lucky and find a Sean McVay type, but knowing Haslam, he would go out and hire Ben McAdoo shortly after he is fired from the Giants.  

The only problem with this train of thought, is that to rebuild a NFL franchise, you absolutely must find a franchise QB and this regime has already passed on potentially 2. Yes, FO's deserve more than 2 years to prove their worth provided they show 2 things, 1) the ability to find a franchise QB and 2) the teams shows real progress in year 2 towards becoming a contender. This FO has completely failed in both these areas and it would be fool hardy to allow them to run another draft.

Successful FO's and HC's generally use year 1 on the job to clear out the deadwood on their football teams and nobody expects much in the way of wins, but once the deadwood is cleared out, almost every successful franchise with a solid HC who they hired, shows a remarkable improvement in year 2, often approaching a .500 record and certainly no worse than 6 wins. This team is headed for a 1-31 record and in no way resembles any successful rebuild I have ever seen in my 65 years of following pro football.

So, my conclusion is simple. They are a proven incompetent FO that has not earned the right to run another draft and had better be replaced ASAP, before they completely send this franchise down the drain for another decade or 2. After all, nobody should be surprised by their total incompetence, they wee hired by perhaps the worst owner in pro sports, so why would anyone think for a moment, that he hired competent people. It's simple, he didn't and they had better be gone by season's end.

[43M]

2 hours ago, Iamcanadian said:

The only problem with this train of thought, is that to rebuild a NFL franchise, you absolutely must find a franchise QB and this regime has already passed on potentially 2.

I dont see how that is an indictment on my train of thought.    They started from scratch and didnt think they had the pieces in place to support a highly drafted QB.    

Just because Carson Wentz is playing like a boss in Philly doesnt mean he would be tearing it up in Cleveland.   Too often people tend act like a great player would have the same success wherever they went, and that is not the case.     Im not saying Wentz COULDNT be good in Cleveland, just that we cant assume that he would be viewed as highly with the Browns as he currently is with the Eagles.

Quote

Yes, FO's deserve more than 2 years to prove their worth provided they show 2 things, 1) the ability to find a franchise QB and 2) the teams shows real progress in year 2 towards becoming a contender. This FO has completely failed in both these areas and it would be fool hardy to allow them to run another draft.

Youre laughably oversimplifying the process.

FIrst off, again, they have to be able to support a franchise QB.    If they had take Wentz and he wasnt playing well early on, fans would be bashing them for taking a QB so early without having the team ready to support one.   Hindsight is 20/20.    And it can often take teams longer than 2 years to both find AND develop a QB.     It doesnt always happen immediately.    The first year they chose to focus on building the team, and everyone thought that was for the best until Carson Wentz proved to be good and everyone started claiming the Browns were idiots for passing on him....even though Wentz was in no way some slam dunk prospect that could turn around any franchise.   The Browns FO staff has definitely had some missteps, but I have no real issue with the way they have handled the draft or even QB to this point.

I agree with the failure to show progress thus far, which is why I believe this regime COULD be torn down after the season, especially if they dont win a game.....but the Browns were in such terrible shape and they started over so fresh, I believe they should get one more year.    It doesnt help anyone to keep changing regimes every year or two.   They need to have patience, and while its hard to have patience when the team is this bad,  they need to at least give this regime one more year.   If they dont show much progress after 2018, then move on.

Quote

Successful FO's and HC's generally use year 1 on the job to clear out the deadwood on their football teams and nobody expects much in the way of wins, but once the deadwood is cleared out, almost every successful franchise with a solid HC who they hired, shows a remarkable improvement in year 2, often approaching a .500 record and certainly no worse than 6 wins. This team is headed for a 1-31 record and in no way resembles any successful rebuild I have ever seen in my 65 years of following pro football.

See, youre just making up a bunch of criteria and acting like they are hard and fast rules.   They arent.  Teams are built differently, and there are various extenuating variables that can determine how quickly and how slowly a team develops.     They arent always two year turn arounds like you are claiming.  

Now, again....I agree that they havent shown enough progress this year, and thats concerning, but  they are by far the youngest team and are lacking a franchise QB and pretty much any notable skill players on offense.   The OLine is fine and the defense HAS shown progress (especially in the front 7).    With the shape that the Browns were in, no one was going to come in and turn this team around quickly.

If they end this regime after the season....so be it.  I dont care either way.     However, given how many regime changes they have went through since Haslam took over and the fact that I dont think Haslam is smart enough to go out and find an upgrade to what they currently have, I think they are better off giving this regime one more year.     

Quote

So, my conclusion is simple. They are a proven incompetent FO that has not earned the right to run another draft and had better be replaced ASAP, before they completely send this franchise down the drain for another decade or 2. After all, nobody should be surprised by their total incompetence, they wee hired by perhaps the worst owner in pro sports, so why would anyone think for a moment, that he hired competent people. It's simple, he didn't and they had better be gone by season's end.

That is merely your opinion and you are entitled to it.

If you think they should be gone by seasons, end, so be it.

However,  you openly admit that Haslam is one of the worst owners and that he probably didnt hire competent people, so what makes you think he can find a more competent front office THIS offseason?     You do realize that if they change regimes again this offseason, it will be the 4th regime change in less than 6 years?   Where has that gotten them?    At some point, they need to give SOMEONE longer than 2 years.   Im not saying that Hue and his regime have EARNED it, but its not like anyone good and/or proven is going to want to go to Cleveland, and even if there was, Haslam would find a way to ruin it.    

In the end, I dont really care.   I never liked Hue and I am not surprised he is failing one bit.    However, given the circumstances of which he was hired, I think him and his regime should get one more year, go all out in Free agency and try one last time to get things on track next year.   As I said....if they could somehow land Kirk Cousns and get Josh Gordon and Corey Coleman back 100% in 2018, that would go a LONG way.....because they could then draft Saquon Barkley first overall and boom....they suddenly have a super talented offense.    Get a few pieces in that secondary and let some of the other young talent devleop and the defense would be decent too.

OR....pull the plug on this regime after two seasons (again), hire another incompetent group of bargain bin football minds who will have to rush to get everything in place to learn the strengths and weaknesses of the team and get ready for free agency and the draft, and just start the entire cycle over again....again.  

[lancerman]

The problem is that a narrative exists where clear cut mistakes like missing out on all these franchise QB's doesn't matter in Cleveland because supposedly the Browns suck anyways and it doesn't matter. A franchise QB doesn't come around every day and it's not a gaurantee that you will find one when you allegedly have the pieces in place to support him. The Texans until Watson were a stacked team that was purgatory because they couldn't find a franchise QB until Watson who changed their fortunes, and now he's injured and is a question mark again. The Broncos went from a Super Bowl threat 4 years in a row and two appearances to a joke once their QB situation went to crap. And they are actually a million times better off as a team than the Browns. As good as Garrett is, complete mistake to take him over Watson. Garrett isn't going to push your team over the top.

When there is a QB you really believe in, you get the QB. In this league, that's what changes the fortunes of teams.

The second fact is, I'm sorry but no FO and coach is going to survive too long after 2 winless or nearly winless years. You can't be historically bad and ask for patience. Every team in the Browns division took a step back and the dominant powers that have plagued the division for years are closing in on regime changed at QB that could effect them for years and the Browns are nowhere near being able to capitalize on it.

I'm sorry but right now the Browns are historically bad and worse than at any point in there history, missed on franchise changing QB's and completely missed on reaches like Manziel and Kizer. And the reputation got so bad that the star QB of the next draft class is allegedly talking about staying in school to avoid Cleveland. You can't be historically bad like this. We are at a point where the Browns change staff so much that they have a FO and a coach with historically bad results and we are convincing ourselves that THESE are the guys that need to be given more opportunity. 

[EaglesPeteC]

Rather have the Browns regime than the Giants right now tbh 

[lancerman]

20 minutes ago, EaglesPeteC said:

Rather have the Browns regime than the Giants right now tbh 

The Giants are pretty much gauranteed to bounce back eventually. They are a year removed from being a competent team that could have made a wave in the playoffs to this.I don't think anyone can reasonably expect that from the Browns.

[Jlowe22]

Browns have a buttload of picks, give the staff a little more time to see what they can do with them.  3-45 or something is just ridiculous though, they can't be given infinite time.

[MWil23]

16 minutes ago, Jlowe22 said:

Browns have a buttload of picks, give the staff a little more time to see what they can do with them.  3-45 or something is just ridiculous though, they can't be given infinite time.

This regime is currently 1-25 and in their 2nd year.

[Jlowe22]

6 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

This regime is currently 1-25 and in their 2nd year.

I know I'm giving them two wins by the end of next season.

[MWil23]

Just now, Jlowe22 said:

I know I'm giving them two wins by the end of next season.

By the end of 2018? 

If they have under 5 wins to show in 3 years they're all gone well before 3 full years.

[Jlowe22]

32 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

By the end of 2018? 

If they have under 5 wins to show in 3 years they're all gone well before 3 full years.

This is basically what was said, yes.

[Rod Johnson]

11 hours ago, lancerman said:

The problem is that a narrative exists where clear cut mistakes like missing out on all these franchise QB's doesn't matter in Cleveland because supposedly the Browns suck anyways and it doesn't matter. A franchise QB doesn't come around every day and it's not a gaurantee that you will find one when you allegedly have the pieces in place to support him. The Texans until Watson were a stacked team that was purgatory because they couldn't find a franchise QB until Watson who changed their fortunes, and now he's injured and is a question mark again. The Broncos went from a Super Bowl threat 4 years in a row and two appearances to a joke once their QB situation went to crap. And they are actually a million times better off as a team than the Browns. As good as Garrett is, complete mistake to take him over Watson. Garrett isn't going to push your team over the top.

When there is a QB you really believe in, you get the QB. In this league, that's what changes the fortunes of teams.

The second fact is, I'm sorry but no FO and coach is going to survive too long after 2 winless or nearly winless years. You can't be historically bad and ask for patience. Every team in the Browns division took a step back and the dominant powers that have plagued the division for years are closing in on regime changed at QB that could effect them for years and the Browns are nowhere near being able to capitalize on it.

I'm sorry but right now the Browns are historically bad and worse than at any point in there history, missed on franchise changing QB's and completely missed on reaches like Manziel and Kizer. And the reputation got so bad that the star QB of the next draft class is allegedly talking about staying in school to avoid Cleveland. You can't be historically bad like this. We are at a point where the Browns change staff so much that they have a FO and a coach with historically bad results and we are convincing ourselves that THESE are the guys that need to be given more opportunity. 

Watson 1st overall was never considered a possibility before the draft by any pundit.  Great teams are suppose to have a bit more insight than the average fan but let's be realistic, nobody pegged Watson as a first overall pick.  And given where the Browns took Kizer, that wasn't a reach at all, although a strong argument could be made they were the wrong team to pick him.