Impending Hue Jackson Firing, Coaching Non-Options, & Other Nonsense

[bruceb]

Losing this coaching staff would not be the end of the world.

Had high hopes for Williams and would like to retain him, but the rest can go and it will be addition by subtraction.

I think Ditch said it best: Continuity of failure just means more failure.

Hue might be a nice guy and all, and by all accounts the players support him, but he is more a preacher than a leader and his judgment is for shat.  

[mistakey]

i was seriously hoping through some cosmic magic that since the minnesota game was so early that our team was just suffering from some sort of collective performance anxiety and since no one was watching we'd pull thru in the clutch and it would be our first step towards respectability

and then the 4th quarter hit- maybe people woke up then

oh well.  regardless we'll always suck.

[mistakey]

2 minutes ago, bruceb said:

Losing this coaching staff would not be the end of the world.

Had high hopes for Williams and would like to retain him, but the rest can go and it will be addition by subtraction.

I think Ditch said it best: Continuity of failure just means more failure.

Hue might be a nice guy and all, and by all accounts the players support him, but he is more a preacher than a leader and his judgment is for shat.  

sure, short term failure.  but we need to think long term here.  what does firing hue jackson give us in the short term?  the equivalent of mike pettine or rob chudzinski?

if we failed for one or two more years with hue jackson (or gasp maybe the young kids finally get good at the game of football and we win some games and he keeps his job) we'd at least have some modicum of respectability in the fraternity of NFL coaches... which matters.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

13 minutes ago, bruceb said:

 

I think Ditch said it best: Continuity of failure just means more failure.

In theory, maybe, but it's not as if this franchise has ever showed enough restraint to actually find out.

The ready, fire, aim approach is the reason we're in the position we're in.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

11 minutes ago, mistakey said:

sure, short term failure.  but we need to think long term here.  what does firing hue jackson give us in the short term?  the equivalent of mike pettine or rob chudzinski?

if we failed for one or two more years with hue jackson (or gasp maybe the young kids finally get good at the game of football and we win some games and he keeps his job) we'd at least have some modicum of respectability in the fraternity of NFL coaches... which matters.

Or at least gave a guy a fair shake and let a front office see their vision through to some degree.

[CBrownsman]

I actually like the idea of making a special teams coordinator a HC.

So often people view the coordinators on the most talented teams as the guys who are the best, and its not coordinators who necessarily make good choices.

I don't dislike Hue Jackson, but I have been pretty upset with the HC decisions he has made, when to call TO's, when to challenge plays (like calling a TO then challenging a play is stupid), when to accept or decline the penalties, when to go for it, when to go for 2, etc, not all of his decisions are bad, but enough of them are that it's starting to get upsetting.  Also I don't like that hes starting to call out the front office with quotes like "you have to ask Sashi that" when asked if he has enough talent on his roster, you want to be united on the plan to build the football team.

If we fire Hue (which I would like to state that I am not a fan of, not necessarily because of him, but because of consistency and sustainability), My favorite person to hire would be Matt Patricia.  I have been following his career for a long time, and he has done more with less than any coach I've seen, and constantly had to change his schemes and plans based on players getting hurt, and still come through.  He is a young, VERY smart, analytics guy, who I feel like would know how to make the right calls at the right time and has a passion on the sidelines that I love.

I also want to point out that I still LOVE what Sashi and company are doing.  Some people are mad because of "talent" available, but we haven't been in a position to get a QB and be successful yet.  Wentz and Watson probably would have also looked like garbage on this team full of nothing that we had coming in.  We had the 2nd pick in the draft, with the ability to draft Wentz, who mind you came out of nowhere and had a lot of question marks, and we traded him away for a boatload of picks.  The following year, with one of the picks that we got in the trade, passed on Watson who VERY few people viewed as a franchise QB, and we moved that one also to pick up another first this upcoming year.  In 3 drafts with them, we turned 3 picks in every round into (6) 1st round picks, (5) 2nd round picks, (5) 3rd round picks, (7) 4th round picks, (7) 5th round picks etc.  We took an expensive, BAD, OLD defense and are slowly turning it into a very productive, very young defense.  We traded a 3rd round compensation pick for Jamie Collins (who would have gotten a contract to net us another 3rd round compensation pick if he decided not to stay).  We traded a 7th for Andy Lee, and then turned him back around for a 4th.  We actually got something for Cam Erving and Justin Gilbert.  You are not going to hit on every draft pick, and its REALLY hard to tell after only two years, but Garrett, Peppers, Njoku, Coleman in the first round already looks a HELL of a lot better than the combination of the previous 4 years Richardson, Weeden, Mingo, Gilbert, Manzel, Shelton, and Erving.  The oldest draft picks we have on our team right now aside from Joe Thomas that we drafted are Crowell and Kirksey from 2016.  This team had SOOOOO little talent on it, we could have thrown band aids at it and won 5 or 6 games but we didn't we did what we NEEDED to do and tore it down to nothing to re-build.  Now we have what seems like a foundation in place, REALLY good lines (offensive and defensive), and 5 picks in the first two rounds of this draft, including, very possibly, the #1 overall, in what has looked like for a few years now a VERY strong QB draft.  We have a TON of cap space that we can actually look at starting to surround the young QB with talent and youth.  I don't see a dumpster fire, I see an incredibly well crafted plan that could pay huge dividends in the upcoming year on our pain of the last 2-3 seasons...I just hope Haslem has the intelligence and patience to keep the architects around...

[mistakey]

16 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Or at least gave a guy a fair shake and let a front office see their vision through to some degree.

foreign concept to me what is this

[GongKong]

Hue should stay. He is average hc and for browns that is pretty good.

We are a talentless team and constantly trade down for less than talent and screw up drafting those guys too. FA are a mess as no one wants to come here. We get the drudge at best  

Firing everyone won't help. Getting true impact players will help. The Watts of the world. The aaron Rodgers of the world. All of a sudden we would look mildly competent. No one will win here. None at all. We need more talent and consistent systems and playbooks. 

Hue is just one person we love to blame. But the Browns are an unwinnable situation. We are a joke. Our goal should be mediocrity.  If they got there it would be near a parade down Chester ave. Mediocre.  A parade. 

Sign up a half dead Romo. See if can win 8 games.  Still guessing can only win 3 to 4 like every year. Oh well. Keep hue, keep system, try and sign stop gap,  draft actual talent instead of loses and try and get to mediocre.  Signs should be up in locker room:

Win 8 get a parade.

Mediocre means success. 

We strive to be average and are wishful we will get there in 5 years. 

[bruceb]

1 hour ago, mistakey said:

sure, short term failure.  but we need to think long term here.  what does firing hue jackson give us in the short term?  the equivalent of mike pettine or rob chudzinski?

if we failed for one or two more years with hue jackson (or gasp maybe the young kids finally get good at the game of football and we win some games and he keeps his job) we'd at least have some modicum of respectability in the fraternity of NFL coaches... which matters.

1-23 is creeping into the midterm range, imho.

Couple that with consistently poor decision-making/judgment and the case for keeping him around is pretty weak.

It seems that Hue at best is learning how to be an HC and I just do not see that he has that high a ceiling.

[bruceb]

1 hour ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

In theory, maybe, but it's not as if this franchise has ever showed enough restraint to actually find out.

The ready, fire, aim approach is the reason we're in the position we're in.

Poor personnel selection in the coaching staff and player acquisition I think is more the reason.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

1 hour ago, bruceb said:

Poor personnel selection in the coaching staff and player acquisition I think is more the reason.

Pretty hard to make selections that look good when you're fired before the guys you drafted hit year 2-3.

Then the new guy comes in and we change from 4-3 to 3-4 to 4-3 to 3-4 to 4-3 and from a power running team to WCO to Air Coryell to Shanahan WCO, etc.

[matt27j]

I like you're thought process CBrownsman. About both options going forward if we do move on, about why Hue might be the fall guy, and the things the FO has done right.

Mcgill came in and provided some good interior pressure. Ogbah started getting the edge. Dayes made a splash. Kizer all things considered did very well except for overthrowing chief down the sideline. Almost had another pick near the end zone on a route that take way to long to develop. Louis does make a few plays. Let's not forget that Kai got his first taste of action.

All in all if you want to be one of the better teams in the league you gotta find value. These guys above are providing that. Other ways are cheap vets wanting to win, trades, your 1st's playing like superstars, or picking guys up later in the draft with character concerns like Brantley.  

I'm going to hold off on my criticism until the season ends. As easy as it is to do there is a lot of football left and if we can at least get Corey back I think Kizer will have a guy that boosts his confidence in letting it rip. Jamar as #1 CB is going to continue to be a problem but we should be alright considering how well the defense plays overall. Maybe Kai steps up and Peppers can be used more in the slot or like D Buchanon. 

Too many variables and potential to conclude that we aren't going to continue to improve on these small areas enough until all the sudden we are playing better football than the teams we're facing off against. Hue seems to have settled from some of his management mistakes and has found an identity for this offense. Kirksey is making plays in coverage now. Collins seems comfortable. Burg and Scho hold their own. All aided by a DL that somehow Greg finds a way to get something out of every player. 

The lights are coming on for a lot of guys, most important of them could be Kizer. If he continues to gain a little confidence everyone else around him is going to start looking better. If those creases start opening up Crow will take advantage in a big way and we'll get off his back next. 

We were just outmatched by MIN at DB and WR. Competed well but outmatched. Maybe with more experience thing would've balanced out more. Gotta mention Kendricks as well. Love his speed. The possession differential wore us out. Sometimes we were a hair too far away from Keenum or being able to make a difficult reception. That stuff just takes experience and confidence. 

You look around the NFL now though and you're starting to see some other teams struggle that looked good early on. The difference is that we played very aggressive early on while they played it safe. Halfway through they have to start being more aggressive b/c opponents are on to them(Jets or Bears) while we've already taken our lumps and dialed it back. 

Looking at the schedule it doesn't get any easier, but it doesn't get any more difficult either. We'll see what happens.

[bruceb]

13 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Pretty hard to make selections that look good when you're fired before the guys you drafted hit year 2-3.

Then the new guy comes in and we change from 4-3 to 3-4 to 4-3 to 3-4 to 4-3 and from a power running team to WCO to Air Coryell to Shanahan WCO, etc.

Our history of poor drafts is undeniable. Many (most?) of the players we have drafted in the last 5 years are not even in the league. Some never even made it to year 3.

I think the vision of what we want the team to be on D is established, that we will continue to play to our players' strengths and continue to add players to fit that vision. We are seeing signs of progress (e.g., run D). A new HC and even DC either will buy into that or they will not be hired.

O is an entirely different matter.

No signs of a vision or any semblance of scheming to our players' strengths.

No apparent signs of improvement and given upgrades at some positions one could argue that the O has regressed.

Kind of hard to add the right pieces before you know what you want to be. 

I have seen little/nothing from Hue and his O coaching crew that I am interested in retaining and a radical change in O philosophy seems to be in order.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

5 minutes ago, bruceb said:

Our history of poor drafts is undeniable. Many (most?) of the players we have drafted in the last 5 years are not even in the league. Some never even made it to year 3.

I think the vision of what we want the team to be on D is established, that we will continue to play to our players' strengths and continue to add players to fit that vision. We are seeing signs of progress (e.g., run D). A new HC and even DC either will buy into that or they will not be hired.

O is an entirely different matter.

No signs of a vision or any semblance of scheming to our players' strengths.

No apparent signs of improvement and given upgrades at some positions one could argue that the O has regressed.

Kind of hard to add the right pieces before you know what you want to be. 

I have seen little/nothing from Hue and his O coaching crew that I am interested in retaining and a radical change in O philosophy seems to be in order.

Couldn't an OC do the same thing while maintaining some semblance of stability?

Say what you will about Hue, but the players like him and they play hard for him.  The results are there but guys haven't quit yet.

Former players also almost universally hold him in the highest regard as a coach. That's worth something IMO.

[buno67]

6 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

I'm not going to let the fact he couldn't control JFF against him, there's only so much a coach can do.

its not even the off the field. He couldnt get Manziel prepared to know the basics after week10. Yeah the majority of that is on Manziel but it also falls onto the coaches as well.