Dr A W Niloc Posted January 2, 2022 Share Posted January 2, 2022 10 minutes ago, Forge said: Why keep Wilson around and get nothing for him if you're not going to be competitive regardless. The only way to be absolutely certain you're not going to be competitive is to dump your franchise quarterback. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravishingone Posted January 2, 2022 Share Posted January 2, 2022 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Forge said: Or you take a good long look at where you are at, cash your equity out and try to start the next phase with additional ammunition to get it right. Why keep Wilson around and get nothing for him if you're not going to be competitive regardless. That's not panic, that's self awareness and planning. That said, teams are almost never willing to be honest about themselves and admit where they are at, so if they trade him I'm sure it's because Russ did drive it I thought I read Russ needs to give permission to be traded. I believe this would put the Hawks with less leverage when negotiating a possible trade. So his current deal has 2 more yrs on it. Realistically, what would be his trade value at this point with the above variables and he'll be 36 when this contract is done? It's a question not sure how to answer. Maybe 2 1st rdrs and a day 3 pick. With the lack of leverage from the Hawks (Wilson needs to say "yes" first), would the a trade partner view that as too steep? Stafford went for the 2 1st rdrs and a 3rd rdr, but the extra 1st was to take the Goff contract, no? Wilson has a better resume then Stafford, but it sure has been awhile since the Hawks won a playoff game. Edited January 2, 2022 by ravishingone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted January 2, 2022 Share Posted January 2, 2022 17 minutes ago, Dr A W Niloc said: The only way to be absolutely certain you're not going to be competitive is to dump your franchise quarterback. I mean, that's not true. Quarterbacks not as good as Russ have great seasons all the time, as do their teams. So you definitely wouldn't be "absolutely certain". And that's if you believe that Russ will continue to play at that level. But that still doesn't really answer my initial question. If you don't believe you are going to be competitive with Russ, why are you keeping him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted January 2, 2022 Share Posted January 2, 2022 4 minutes ago, ravishingone said: I thought I read Russ needs to give permission to be traded. I believe this would put the Hawks with less leverage when negotiating a possible trade. So his current deal has 2 more yrs on it. Realistically, what would be his trade value at this point with the above variables and he'll be 36 when this contract is done? It's a question not sure how to answer. Maybe 2 1st rdrs and a day 3 pick. With the lack of leverage from the Hawks (Wilson needs to say "yes" first), would the a trade partner view that as too steep? Stafford went for the 2 1st rdrs and a 3rd rdr, but the extra 1st was to take the Goff contract, no? Wilson has a better resume then Stafford, but it sure has been awhile since the Hawks won a playoff game. No. It was to top Carolina's offer. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted January 2, 2022 Share Posted January 2, 2022 6 minutes ago, ravishingone said: I thought I read Russ needs to give permission to be traded. I believe this would put the Hawks with less leverage when negotiating a possible trade. So his current deal has 2 more yrs on it. Realistically, what would be his trade value at this point with the above variables and he'll be 36 when this contract is done? It's a question not sure how to answer. Maybe 2 1st rdrs and a day 3 pick. With the lack of leverage from the Hawks (Wilson needs to say "yes" first), would the a trade partner view that as too steep? Stafford went for the 2 1st rdrs and a 3rd rdr, but the extra 1st was to take the Goff contract, no? Wilson has a better resume then Stafford, but it sure has been awhile since the Hawks won a playoff game. He has a no trade clause, but if he truly wants out, that's not going to be as big of a deal since you have to compromise. Teams still have to pony up to make it worth it to trade him. He gets at least 2 firsts plus whatever else. And no, Goff didn't cost a first to take imo. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted January 2, 2022 Share Posted January 2, 2022 1 minute ago, jrry32 said: No. It was to top Carolina's offer. Correct. At worst, Goff was the cost of doing business with the Rams in that situation, nothing more 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr A W Niloc Posted January 2, 2022 Share Posted January 2, 2022 6 minutes ago, Forge said: I mean, that's not true. Quarterbacks not as good as Russ have great seasons all the time, as do their teams. So you definitely wouldn't be "absolutely certain". If Forge can be certain the Seahawks won't be competitive with their franchise QB then, yes, I can be absolutely certain they won't be competitive without him. Quote And that's if you believe that Russ will continue to play at that level It he can't he won't have any trade value anyway. Zero equity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted January 2, 2022 Share Posted January 2, 2022 38 minutes ago, Dr A W Niloc said: If Forge can be certain the Seahawks won't be competitive with their franchise QB then, yes, I can be absolutely certain they won't be competitive without him. It he can't he won't have any trade value anyway. Zero equity. Where did I say I was certain? Yeah, I'm sure Wilson has no trade value. Just because someone may think he won't age well does not mean everyone will. Or Seattle could think he won't age well at all and Dave g may not give two craps about that because he's trying to save his job now. You're just deflecting with these type of responses (also, if he can't is irrelevant unless every pick received in the trade was conditional since the compensation would be agreed to at the time of the trade) So why keep him around if you don't believe you will be competitive with him? If you don't believe that, why is it panic to turn the page on this generation of the Seahawks and move on to the next iteration? That's very confusing to me. Are you saying that people are just panicking over this year and it's not indicative of what they are going to be moving forward? That's just not my understanding of how you meant. Do you view then as highly competitive with Russ? I'm going to assume you do but with the caveat that they have to add 4-5 players? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted January 2, 2022 Share Posted January 2, 2022 55 minutes ago, Forge said: Correct. At worst, Goff was the cost of doing business with the Rams in that situation, nothing more Comparing it on the TVC, Goff has secondish round value if you assume LA had to match Carolina. Maybe Stafford preferring LA meant they didn't have to match, but considering Holmes was reportedly a Goff fan, it seems unlikely that Goff had negative value in the trade. If that were the case, Detroit could have just taken the Carolina offer that included Teddy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted January 2, 2022 Share Posted January 2, 2022 58 minutes ago, Forge said: He has a no trade clause, but if he truly wants out, that's not going to be as big of a deal since you have to compromise. Teams still have to pony up to make it worth it to trade him. He gets at least 2 firsts plus whatever else. And no, Goff didn't cost a first to take imo. I think they Russ gets at least two firsts. Might be able to pull three. Denver, Carolina, and Miami would almost certainly get into a bidding war (unless one of them was going to land Watson). Plus, Pittsburgh, New Orleans, Washington, NYG, and Philly could all jump in. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr A W Niloc Posted January 2, 2022 Share Posted January 2, 2022 17 minutes ago, Forge said: Are you saying that people are just panicking over this year and it's not indicative of what they are going to be moving forward? Correct, more or less. The Seahawks won't have a 1st round pick but once Seattle has all of their offensive weapons healthy they will have the luxury of concentrating on defense. Being 4th in cap space won't hurt the cause. Just to be clear, "competitive" doesn't necessarily mean Super Bowl bound. With Carson out and with so many other injuries in 2021 this team is still 15th in DVOA. I can't imagine dismissing them as not competitive in 2022. Unless they jettison Russell Wilson, that is. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted January 2, 2022 Share Posted January 2, 2022 14 minutes ago, jrry32 said: I think they Russ gets at least two firsts. Might be able to pull three. Denver, Carolina, and Miami would almost certainly get into a bidding war (unless one of them was going to land Watson). Plus, Pittsburgh, New Orleans, Washington, NYG, and Philly could all jump in. FWIW a recent report said Wilson is interested in the Giants, Saints, and Broncos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted January 2, 2022 Share Posted January 2, 2022 1 hour ago, ravishingone said: I thought I read Russ needs to give permission to be traded. I believe this would put the Hawks with less leverage when negotiating a possible trade. So his current deal has 2 more yrs on it. Realistically, what would be his trade value at this point with the above variables and he'll be 36 when this contract is done? It's a question not sure how to answer. Maybe 2 1st rdrs and a day 3 pick. With the lack of leverage from the Hawks (Wilson needs to say "yes" first), would the a trade partner view that as too steep? Stafford went for the 2 1st rdrs and a 3rd rdr, but the extra 1st was to take the Goff contract, no? Wilson has a better resume then Stafford, but it sure has been awhile since the Hawks won a playoff game. For a team like the Saints that can potentially win now with Russell Wilson I don't think they'd have any issue with sending away 2 firsts and a mid round pick to acquire him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted January 2, 2022 Share Posted January 2, 2022 1 hour ago, Forge said: Correct. At worst, Goff was the cost of doing business with the Rams in that situation, nothing more And obviously the team was pretty bad this year but Goff gives them some stability at QB if they're not in love with any of the prospects in the draft. The Lions offensive line has actually made progress this season, TJ Hockenson is a monster, Swift is one of the best young backs in the league, and Amon Ra St.Brown is becoming a guy for them. If they can add another dynamic WR their offense should be pretty good next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted January 2, 2022 Share Posted January 2, 2022 1 hour ago, NYRaider said: And obviously the team was pretty bad this year but Goff gives them some stability at QB if they're not in love with any of the prospects in the draft. The Lions offensive line has actually made progress this season, TJ Hockenson is a monster, Swift is one of the best young backs in the league, and Amon Ra St.Brown is becoming a guy for them. If they can add another dynamic WR their offense should be pretty good next year. The OL made a lot of progress when Decker returned. If they have Decker, Sewell, Jackson, and Ragnow all healthy next year, they should have a really good unit. I'm not quite as high on Hockenson and Swift as you are. I see Swift as more of an above average HB than anything. Hockenson is a top 10 TE, but he's not in the same class as the elite guys. I think his upside is along the lines of a Zach Ertz or Greg Olsen, which is still a very good TE. St. Brown does look to have a lot of potential as a slot WR. So he's been a major positive. 1 hour ago, NYRaider said: FWIW a recent report said Wilson is interested in the Giants, Saints, and Broncos. Seems like the Giants and Broncos would have the clearer paths. Surprised he wouldn't consider Carolina, considering he went to college there and grew up nearby in VA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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