Raiders Offense

[dante9876]

3 hours ago, NYRaider said:

The same reason that the Rams rode Gurley until the wheels fell off and then let him go. When you have talented, productive players you keep them around until they are not able to produce anymore. Josh carried us down the stretch of the season, is a captain, and is one of the leaders in the locker room. We've hit on a few draft picks in the last like two decades, we traded Cooper and Mack, how'd that work out for us? 

Based on your thought process the Bengals should've traded away Joe Mixon. He had some injury issues and was due for an extension. Instead they paid him on a front loaded deal and he has been one of the best backs in the league and a major reason they're one of the up and coming contenders. 

You can say that it's a business and people shouldn't talk about feelings. Did you forget that our entire OL basically asked to be traded because they were pissed at the team? lol

Your not making sense. The bengals paid  Joe that was an awful comparison since we talking about if we not paying jacobs. 

[dante9876]

6 hours ago, NYRaider said:

Trading away the two other first round picks that helped us make the playoffs in Mack/Cooper worked out well.

So I guess we should never sign any free agent linebackers either since nick k and Littleton was busts. This is silly logic. The cooper trade was the right move. Them sucking at drafting doesn't make trading cooper wrong. 

[Jerry]

8 hours ago, NYRaider said:

I don't think that we should trade Jacobs, he's a leader in the locker room and someone all of the guys love. I mean he just put the team on his back the last few weeks while Carr played pretty meh to help us seal a playoff berth. But I would let him walk in free agency in 2024.

I can't agree with this.  Carr had some very clutch moments.  I wouldn't call it meh at all.  His stats would have been better without the drop by D. Waller.  That pass into the endzone when that pass interference was called was awesome.  They took him out of a red zone opportunity to let Mariota and Renfrow go three and out trying to run it in.  Carr played as good as he could and we put up 35.  I mean with the game on the line in overtime we needed to get into FG range and he pulled it off.  The dude is super clutch.  Just can't say that Carr played meh.  He played good.  Darn good.

[NYRaider]

2 hours ago, dante9876 said:

Your not making sense. The bengals paid  Joe that was an awful comparison since we talking about if we not paying jacobs. 

The point I was making is that at the very minimum you ride Jacobs out until his rookie deal is done, if you're going to pay him you front load the deal like the Bengals did with Joe Mixon. 

[NYRaider]

1 hour ago, Jerry said:

I can't agree with this.  Carr had some very clutch moments.  I wouldn't call it meh at all.  His stats would have been better without the drop by D. Waller.  That pass into the endzone when that pass interference was called was awesome.  They took him out of a red zone opportunity to let Mariota and Renfrow go three and out trying to run it in.  Carr played as good as he could and we put up 35.  I mean with the game on the line in overtime we needed to get into FG range and he pulled it off.  The dude is super clutch.  Just can't say that Carr played meh.  He played good.  Darn good.

Carr has been very clutch in key moments but his play overall hasn't been great. He had 2 turnovers against the Browns, Colts, and Broncos and our offense scored 16, 23, and 17 in those games. Against the Broncos he fumbled the ball in the 3rd quarter while we were driving up 1, had the Broncos scored there the entire narrative of the season would've been different but the defense bailed us out. Against the Browns he threw a pick with 3 minutes left when we were down by 1 point but the defense bailed us out and gave us a chance to get the ball back and win. Against the Colts he threw an interception late in the third quarter down by 4, but again the defense bailed us out and didn't let the game get out of hand.

Yesterday he missed a ton of throws including two that should've been TD's and had like 180 yards on 38 passing attempts.

Edited January 12, 2022 by NYRaider

[NYRaider]

2 hours ago, dante9876 said:

So I guess we should never sign any free agent linebackers either since nick k and Littleton was busts. This is silly logic. The cooper trade was the right move. Them sucking at drafting doesn't make trading cooper wrong. 

That's not what I said, we've very rarely hit it out of the park with stud players in the 1st round. We've traded two of them away and the return we received was not worth it for either guy. We sure could use a #1 WR right now like Amari Cooper, isn't that our biggest need going into the offseason?

[RaisinBran]

3 hours ago, NYRaider said:

Carr has been very clutch in key moments but his play overall hasn't been great. He had 2 turnovers against the Browns, Colts, and Broncos and our offense scored 16, 23, and 17 in those games. Against the Broncos he fumbled the ball in the 3rd quarter while we were driving up 1, had the Broncos scored there the entire narrative of the season would've been different but the defense bailed us out. Against the Browns he threw a pick with 3 minutes left when we were down by 1 point but the defense bailed us out and gave us a chance to get the ball back and win. Against the Colts he threw an interception late in the third quarter down by 4, but again the defense bailed us out and didn't let the game get out of hand.

Yesterday he missed a ton of throws including two that should've been TD's and had like 180 yards on 38 passing attempts.

The whole thing with Carr is the same it always has been. If you give him time, he's going to light you up, if you don't give him time, he's capable of turning the ball over quite a bit whether it's fumbling or forcing throws. Carr missed a couple throws last game, but he had to step up into pressure on them, normally he hits those. Having Waller back helps him out a ton because he's going to feel comfortable in the fact that either him or Renfrow will get open...and if they are doubled, then Zay or Edwards will be open. Carr in my opinion has done enough to continue being our QB... we just need to make sure he has a capable offensive line and at least two receiving threats on the field. Just look at the drop in Carr's numbers once Waller got hurt (you reference some of these games against Browns, Colts, and Broncos).

[NYRaider]

20 minutes ago, RaisinBran said:

The whole thing with Carr is the same it always has been. If you give him time, he's going to light you up, if you don't give him time, he's capable of turning the ball over quite a bit whether it's fumbling or forcing throws. Carr missed a couple throws last game, but he had to step up into pressure on them, normally he hits those. Having Waller back helps him out a ton because he's going to feel comfortable in the fact that either him or Renfrow will get open...and if they are doubled, then Zay or Edwards will be open. Carr in my opinion has done enough to continue being our QB... we just need to make sure he has a capable offensive line and at least two receiving threats on the field. Just look at the drop in Carr's numbers once Waller got hurt (you reference some of these games against Browns, Colts, and Broncos).

I agree that Carr has done enough and has been clutch down the stretch of the season but he is who he has been. He can be an upper tier QB if he has a great offense around him but even if he doesn't he's still above average and has always been great in clutch situations.

[MrOaktown_56]

20 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

I agree that Carr has done enough and has been clutch down the stretch of the season but he is who he has been. He can be an upper tier QB if he has a great offense around him but even if he doesn't he's still above average and has always been great in clutch situations.

Even a good offense around him. This offensive cast for a lot of the year has sucked.  No run game for most of the year. Bottom 5 in sacks allowed despite Carr having a pretty quick release. No Waller/Ruggs down the stretch. It's not inconceivable that even a good (not elite) offense would be enough for him to light it up, like we saw early in the year. 

 

[NYRaider]

3 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

Even a good offense around him. This offensive cast for a lot of the year has sucked.  No run game for most of the year. Bottom 5 in sacks allowed despite Carr having a pretty quick release. No Waller/Ruggs down the stretch. It's not inconceivable that even a good (not elite) offense would be enough for him to light it up, like we saw early in the year. 

The thing for me with Carr is that you don't even want him to put up crazy volume passing stats. If we're going to really be a contender with him we need a balanced offense with a strong run game. Carr breaking the yards record with Renfrow, Zay, and Edwards as his top 3 WR's for most of the season was impressive. I would've liked to have seen a higher TD volume but I just don't think Carr will ever be that guy.

[MrOaktown_56]

4 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

The thing for me with Carr is that you don't even want him to put up crazy volume passing stats. If we're going to really be a contender with him we need a balanced offense with a strong run game. Carr breaking the yards record with Renfrow, Zay, and Edwards as his top 3 WR's for most of the season was impressive. I would've liked to have seen a higher TD volume but I just don't think Carr will ever be that guy.

Maybe with explosive plays. I just think it's really hard to throw in the RZ when teams know you're throwing. We had such low run success which was a big contributor to RZ struggles.

[NYRaider]

1 minute ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

Maybe with explosive plays. I just think it's really hard to throw in the RZ when teams know you're throwing. We had such low run success which was a big contributor to RZ struggles.

We have three big bodied guys in Waller, Edwards, and Moreau we just never throw it to them. I almost died seeing Olson repeatedly try to run the ball from shot gun on like the 3 yard line, lol.

[RaisinBran]

What do we need to do to become better in the red zone on offense? Seems like it's mostly the play designs and play calling?

Shouldn't Waller be a bigger threat in the redzone? Seems to only have an impact in between the 20s utilizing his speed with more field to work with. Also, I thought Edwards would evolve into one of those fade route/jump ball type of guys when we get inside the 10. I was reading comparisons to TO about Edwards early in the year which seemed ridiculous lol.

[NYRaider]

4 hours ago, RaisinBran said:

What do we need to do to become better in the red zone on offense? Seems like it's mostly the play designs and play calling?

Shouldn't Waller be a bigger threat in the redzone? Seems to only have an impact in between the 20s utilizing his speed with more field to work with. Also, I thought Edwards would evolve into one of those fade route/jump ball type of guys when we get inside the 10. I was reading comparisons to TO about Edwards early in the year which seemed ridiculous lol.

Edwards had 2 TD on 5 red zone targets this season.

[RaisinBran]

1 minute ago, NYRaider said:

Edwards had 2 TD on 5 red zone targets this season.

Interesting... where did you find these red zone rates? How does that TD% compare to other notable players in the league? I'm also curious how many of those 5 targets were actual targeted fade routes or "throw aways" by Carr that were "intended" for Edwards.