BlaqOptic Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 33 minutes ago, 7DnBrnc53 said: Tomlin is trash. He is Jack Pardee 2.0. I have never seen two coaches accomplish so little while having so much talent at their disposal. Please tell me about all of this talent? Because outside of 2017 when were the Steelers ever actually amongst the most talented teams on both sides of the ball? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaqOptic Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 Just now, CKSteeler said: I obviously don't think Arians is a great offensive mind, but I just want to be clear as to who you are defending here. Is it Todd Haley? Because Todd Haley is still coaching football, he just can't get a job in the NFL. Wade Phillips legit retired because he was ancient. Do you know what expected wins/losses actually are? Because that's not some metric that shows you how a coach performed compared to expectations. You're right. I should just use the CKSteeler "He should've won these games because I said so with no actual measure to believe that" argument. I'm not going to sit here and argue with someone who keeps throwing **** at a wall in hopes it sticks. Someone who's upset because Tomlin dragged their corpse of a hero who has severely handicapped this team from keeping better players on the roster the last 3 years to the playoffs and couldn't pull off a miracle last night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soggust Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 (edited) 17 minutes ago, SBLIII said: I mean, Brown, Ben and Bell were there in there prime together for like 5-6 years and made 1 conference championship where they got blown out and missed the playoffs twice. Just not impressive to me. They were together 2013-2017. I'm not including 2018 because Bell sat out. Bell was suspended/hurt in 2015, but AB also had a big year so let's include it anyway. Let's also include Bell's rookie year, even though he wasn't good yet because that was a bad year for Pitt and will skew the stats even more in favor of your take. 2013 - 8-8 (Missed Playoffs) 2014 - 11-5 (Lost Wildcard against Div Rival) 2015 - 10-6 (Won Wildcard against Div Rival, Lost Divisional) 2016 - 11-5 (Won Wildcard, Won Division, Lost to Super Bowl Champ Pats In Conference Champ) 2017 - 13-3 (Lost Divisional to Jags) We could go into details about the losses, but even on its face -> In their 5 years together, they made the playoffs 4/5 years and they won 3 playoff games. Maybe it's not what quite what you want. Maybe you hope for a super bowl or 2 conf championships instead of one. But THIS is the reason folks are hanging their hats on "underperforming" to justify firing a coach who has never had a losing season? Because maybe he should have won 1-2 more playoff games? Edited January 17, 2022 by Soggust 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CKSteeler Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 Just now, BlaqOptic said: and couldn't pull off a miracle last night. No one is bashing him for losing to the Chiefs, though some may wonder what exactly he did to adjust to the Chiefs after the second quarter of the game. It was a game they were almost certainly going to lose. Outclassed. Now explain the last decade of playoff futility while being the clear favorites in nearly every playoff loss. 2 minutes ago, BlaqOptic said: You're right. I should just use the CKSteeler "He should've won these games because I said so with no actual measure to believe that" argument. No, if you're going to provide a number, it should be relevant. Expected wins/losses is based on point differential. So you can put it as a feather in Tomlin's cap if you want that his teams won a lot of ugly games over the years (some would argue, correctly, that this was of his own doing because that's his approach), but that sure as hell does not tell how his team performed versus their talent level or based on expectations. 7 minutes ago, BlaqOptic said: 40 minutes ago, 7DnBrnc53 said: Please tell me about all of this talent? Because outside of 2017 when were the Steelers ever actually amongst the most talented teams on both sides of the ball? It's funny because most defensive minded coaches aren't given a decade and nearly all the premium draft picks in that timespan to rebuild their defense... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaqOptic Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 (edited) 6 minutes ago, CKSteeler said: t's funny because most defensive minded coaches aren't given a decade and nearly all the premium draft picks in that timespan to rebuild their defense... Yes, it's Tomlin's fault Shazier got paralyzed, Tuitt's brother died, Dupree walked in FA because we priortized Ben's contract, Hargrave for same reason., But hey... Artie Burns and Sean Davis didn't work out so that's his fault. Heaven forbid when he was able to field the unit full of his guys the Steelers Defense ranked... 7th, 16th (with Duck at QB), 5th and 3rd in Points Allowed. Your revisionist history is bull****. Sorry, I couldn't let that slide. Now I'm done with your crap. Edited January 17, 2022 by BlaqOptic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CKSteeler Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 4 minutes ago, Soggust said: We could go into details about the losses, but even on its face -> You could also go into detail about some of the wins... But here's a reoccurring trend in the losses of late - Mike Tomlin's defenses were humiliated. If Andy Reid was consistently losing games 17-13 as an offensive coach, you'd rightly ask yourself what it is that he's contributing. Because his coaching style most certainly *did not* lend itself to the Steelers going out and winning as an offensive team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFF Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 11 minutes ago, BlaqOptic said: News to me that going into Arrowhead we beat a backup that year. Was going off of memory...I was wrong from the looks of it. Fine...1 “normal” win in the playoffs in the last 11 years. He was the perfect hire to replace Cowher...the message gets stale....it happened to Cowher and now with Tomlin. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CKSteeler Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 Just now, BlaqOptic said: Heaven forbid when he was able to field the unit full of his guys A unit full of his guys? It was a defense loaded from top to bottom with first round draft picks. The guys who weren't first rounders were second rounders. And they padded their stats all year long against back-up QB's. Newsflash - the great coaches in the league do not need an entirely stacked unit to succeed. They have a system, they often times find cogs within that system at a lot of key positions to make things work and then are able to devote premium draft capital where it's most needed. And you keep making references to how the team lost talent to keep Ben last year which shows you clearly don't know how the salary cap works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CKSteeler Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 While the team was busy building Tomlin a defense full of "his guys" over the course of a decade, they let the OL deteriorate to one of the worst units in the league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bad Example Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 32 minutes ago, BlaqOptic said: Really? 2011: He was 1 Win over Expected W-L 2014: He was 2 Wins over Expected W-L 2016: He was 1 Win over Expected W-L 2017: He was 3 Wins over Expected W-L 2020: He was 2 Wins over Expected W-L 2021: He was 2 Win over Expected W-L 2014, 2017, 2020, and 2021 seem to suggest otherwise... I do t know that expected w/l reflects on the coach....Adam Gase always did well on that metric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Reed Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 I’ll see your “Mike Tomlin has never had a losing season” and raise you “In 15 seasons as Steelers HC, Tomlin’s teams have won a playoff game in just 4 of those seasons”. Obviously something to be said about him consistently not bottoming out, but I do think there’s validity to the point others are making about him not really having much meaningful success beyond that the last decade or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NudeTayne Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 9 hours ago, Uncle Buck said: Anytime you guys don't want him, I'd love to have him in Jacksonville. No, Buck. I've already given you an informal warning about this. 9 hours ago, CKSteeler said: Let me know when the league gives out an award for the most seasons without a losing record. And we'll see where that one stands next year. This 9 hours ago, CKSteeler said: The whole not having a losing season thing makes me laugh. It reminds me of an argument I had with some delusional Dolphins fan on here years and years ago who thought Shula was the best coach of all time because of how many seasons he had with 10 wins. Not Belichick. Not Walsh. No...no....it's Shula because he racked up a lot of mediocre seasons over a long stretch of time. Given the talent he's had to work with, he's overachieved precisely one time as head coach of the Steelers and that was an 8-8 season. And it involved trading two first round picks to bring in Minkah Fitzpatrick to sure up his defense. The rest of his coaching career? How many bye weeks have the Steelers had under Mike Tomlin? How many playoff wins (he now has a losing record in the post-season after starting 5-2)? The guy hasn't won a playoff game in 6 years. His best case scenario is being Marvin Lewis if he's on a lesser franchise. Marvin Lewis was better 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NudeTayne Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 3 minutes ago, Ray Reed said: I’ll see your “Mike Tomlin has never had a losing season” and raise you “In 15 seasons as Steelers HC, Tomlin’s teams have won a playoff game in just 4 of those seasons”. Obviously something to be said about him consistently not bottoming out, but I do think there’s validity to the point others are making about him not really having much meaningful success beyond that the last decade or so. Mike Tomlin should absolutely be on the hot seat. Spoiler Just let him have this. Tayne needs this. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soggust Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 1 minute ago, CKSteeler said: You could also go into detail about some of the wins... But here's a reoccurring trend in the losses of late - Mike Tomlin's defenses were humiliated. If Andy Reid was consistently losing games 17-13 as an offensive coach, you'd rightly ask yourself what it is that he's contributing. Because his coaching style most certainly *did not* lend itself to the Steelers going out and winning as an offensive team. True, but realistically, we are talking about the last 3 playoff games and it's not like the last two years have been world beater teams. I'm not going to defend him there, though, because you are what you are and those were not great, but I can't imagine who you think would be an upgrade over Tomlin. If you think he is really this bum worth firing, he certainly would have had at least ONE losing season by now, right.? If he's not a bum, but a decent head coach who's message has expired (although that's like the one universal trait everyone agrees about him that he's a great leader), then what head coach out there is an upgrade? Who would have beaten the Chiefs this year? Because firing a proven guy because of the last three playoff games seems like a Shottenheimer-esque biting of the nose to spite the face IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soggust Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Ray Reed said: I’ll see your “Mike Tomlin has never had a losing season” and raise you “In 15 seasons as Steelers HC, Tomlin’s teams have won a playoff game in just 4 of those seasons”. Obviously something to be said about him consistently not bottoming out, but I do think there’s validity to the point others are making about him not really having much meaningful success beyond that the last decade or so. Just for context -> How many coaches (with say, 8-10 years coaching experience) won playoff games at over at 27% clip per year (throughout history)? Edited January 17, 2022 by Soggust clarifying Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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