AlexGreen#20 Posted February 13, 2022 Author Share Posted February 13, 2022 7 hours ago, Nzd07 said: Just for fun:2020:Antonio GatesLuke KuechlyMarshal Yanda Travis Frederick Aqib Talib Joe Staley2021:Drew BreesJason WittenAdam Vinatieri Philip Rivers Demaryius Thomas Greg Olsen Only the bolded are guys I'd say belong in the HOF (Frederick didn't play long enough). Jason Witten making the hall of fame and Joe Staley not would be unforgivable. You can't talk about not wanting Hall of Very Good guys and then induct Jason Witten for being a white guy on the Cowboys who was nice to the media. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire12 Posted February 13, 2022 Share Posted February 13, 2022 49 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said: Jason Witten making the hall of fame and Joe Staley not would be unforgivable. You can't talk about not wanting Hall of Very Good guys and then induct Jason Witten for being a white guy on the Cowboys who was nice to the media. I think Witten has a much better case than Joe Staley. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChazStandard Posted February 13, 2022 Share Posted February 13, 2022 You could argue the league has been lagging behind for a while with the HoF. For reference sake there's something 30,000 players to ever play in the NFL, and as of this year only 346 in the HoF. Are ~1% of players HoFers? Or is it more than that? By that logic there should be only 16 active players bound for the HoF, and I think there's a lot more than that. I also do like Deion Sanders' idea of the upper echelon - a sub hall for the giants of the game, only ~25 or so players, you could use the 100th anniversary team as a starting point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
childofpudding Posted February 13, 2022 Share Posted February 13, 2022 I honestly don't understand why anyone cares about it, except maybe for the players and coaches getting in. I guess I'm an outlier as a fan, it just doesn't interest me at all. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrantikRam Posted February 13, 2022 Share Posted February 13, 2022 I guess I'm picky because I don't think very many of the players in that OP actually deserved to be in the HoF. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted February 13, 2022 Author Share Posted February 13, 2022 32 minutes ago, squire12 said: I think Witten has a much better case than Joe Staley. Why? Staley actually had an argument for being the best at his position for a fair few years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire12 Posted February 13, 2022 Share Posted February 13, 2022 20 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said: The finalists for this year were: Jared Allen Willie Anderson Ronde Barber Tony Boselli Leroy Butler Devin Hester Torry Holt Andre Johnson Sam Mills Richard Seymour Zach Thomas DeMarcus Ware Reggie Wayne Patrick Willis Bryant Young I think I would group the above finalists. I think the top 3 have the best case. the 3 WR are clustered together, if 1 gets in, then it opens the path for the other 2. maybe they all 3 go in together at the expense of 1 of the ILB/OLB trio. Patrick Willis Zach Thomas DeMarcus Ware Reggie Wayne Torry Holt Andre Johnson Jared Allen Rhonde Barber WIllie Anderson Devin Hester Will be interesting to see how the 1st year eligible group fares. Those 1st 3 are a pretty strong group Joe Thomas Darrelle Revis Jahri Evans Dwight Freeney NaVorro Bowman James Harrison Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire12 Posted February 13, 2022 Share Posted February 13, 2022 7 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said: Why? Staley actually had an argument for being the best at his position for a fair few years. Staley -- 0 1st team all pro selections in 13 seasons. Peers at that time that might have some HoF consideration. Joe Thomas 10 year overlap with 6 all pro Jonathan Ogden 1 year overlap Walter Jones 2 year overlap Jason Peters 12 year overlap with 2 all pro Orlando Pace 3 year overlap Tyron Smith 8 year overlap with 2 all pro Willie Anderson 2 year overlap Andrew Whitworth 12 year overlap with 2 all pro Matt Light 5 year overlap with 1 all pro Trent Williams 9 year overlap Duane Brown 11 year overlap with 1 all pro David Bahktiari 6 year overlap with 1 all pro Jason Witten -- 2 all pro selections in 17 seasons. Peers at that time Tony Gonzalez 11 year overlap with 3 all pro Antonio Gates 16 year overlap with 3 all pro Rob Gronkowski 11 year overlap with 4 all pro Travis Kelce 7 year overlap with 2 all pro Jimmy Graham 10 year overlap with 1 all pro I look at the overlap of Witten playing in the same age as 4 of the top 10-12 TE of all time and still getting 2 all pro selections. VS Staley with some noted overlap of some good players, but outside of Joe Thomas with 6 all pro selections, the rest are nothing crazy in terms of all time greats. I will say that all pro selections are not the best way to look at this, but it is how the players were viewed relative to their peers at that time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tk3 Posted February 13, 2022 Share Posted February 13, 2022 9 hours ago, Nzd07 said: Just for fun:2020:Antonio GatesLuke KuechlyMarshal Yanda Travis Frederick Aqib Talib Joe Staley2021:Drew BreesJason WittenAdam Vinatieri Philip Rivers Demaryius Thomas Greg Olsen Only the bolded are guys I'd say belong in the HOF (Frederick didn't play long enough). oh.. this is a fun game.. I'm going to use the final year they played, even though retirement date was later, for ease for me (but it looks like we line up as far as player pools go) Players listed would be my semi-finalists/finalists.. bolded are my selections I threw this together quickly, I'm not definitively ranking the players this way, I'm just sort of tiering 2019 Luke Kuechly (first ballot) Marshal Yanda Terrell Suggs Eli Manning (eventually) Adam Vinitieri (rare kicker selection) Marshawn Lynch Joe Staley Earl Thomas Clay Matthews 2020 Drew Brees (first ballot lock) Larry Fitzgerald (first ballot lock) Jason Witten (fringe) Phil Rivers (fringe) Geno Atkins (fringe, but hard to see him as less deserving than Bryant Young) LeSean McCoy (actually have him slightly ahead of Gore) Frank Gore (wouldn't be upset if he gets in though) **I have Gates in the class before the class you have him They are decent classes, and I think there are a ton you can argue either way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tk3 Posted February 13, 2022 Share Posted February 13, 2022 32 minutes ago, squire12 said: I think I would group the above finalists. I think the top 3 have the best case. the 3 WR are clustered together, if 1 gets in, then it opens the path for the other 2. maybe they all 3 go in together at the expense of 1 of the ILB/OLB trio. Patrick Willis Zach Thomas DeMarcus Ware Reggie Wayne Torry Holt Andre Johnson Jared Allen Rhonde Barber WIllie Anderson Devin Hester Will be interesting to see how the 1st year eligible group fares. Those 1st 3 are a pretty strong group Joe Thomas Darrelle Revis Jahri Evans Dwight Freeney NaVorro Bowman James Harrison I agree on Thomas/Revis/Evans being very strong first ballot group. But they HAVE to select 1 of the 4 WRs (I'm also lumping Steve Smith into that grouping). And I think they HAVE to select at least 1 of the 3 LBs (Ware, Willis, Thomas). Frankly I think they need to select or 2 or even all 3 of them. My gut instinct is like.. Holt/Andre + Ware + Willis/ZThomas + Joe Thomas + Revis.. but theoretically, by leaving such strong resumes on the ballot, I think it means we should have a really strong inductee class next year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire12 Posted February 13, 2022 Share Posted February 13, 2022 10 minutes ago, Tk3 said: I agree on Thomas/Revis/Evans being very strong first ballot group. But they HAVE to select 1 of the 4 WRs (I'm also lumping Steve Smith into that grouping). And I think they HAVE to select at least 1 of the 3 LBs (Ware, Willis, Thomas). Frankly I think they need to select or 2 or even all 3 of them. My gut instinct is like.. Holt/Andre + Ware + Willis/ZThomas + Joe Thomas + Revis.. but theoretically, by leaving such strong resumes on the ballot, I think it means we should have a really strong inductee class next year That seems reasonable. I agree on the Steve Smith being in that group of WR. 2023 1st time options Julius Peppers Haloti Ngata Antonio Gates If Ngata were to get in, it will be a while. Kevin Williams needs stronger consideration from the DT group IMO. Peppers and Gates are strong early vote in candidates Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tk3 Posted February 13, 2022 Share Posted February 13, 2022 1 hour ago, squire12 said: That seems reasonable. I agree on the Steve Smith being in that group of WR. 2023 1st time options Julius Peppers Haloti Ngata Antonio Gates If Ngata were to get in, it will be a while. Kevin Williams needs stronger consideration from the DT group IMO. Peppers and Gates are strong early vote in candidates Agreed.. I've had that year marked as the time when a lot of "backfill" will happen Almost a resetting of the ballot, if you will, because IMO there are 2 definite HOF, and only 1 arguable. Nobody other than those 3 even has a shot at being a finalist. Maybe Marshall or Berry show up as a semifinalist or something, but for all intents and purposes this is a year where you add 2 (at most 3) names to the pool, and get to draw 5 out of the pool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kramxel Posted February 13, 2022 Share Posted February 13, 2022 2 hours ago, squire12 said: Staley -- 0 1st team all pro selections in 13 seasons. Peers at that time that might have some HoF consideration. Joe Thomas 10 year overlap with 6 all pro Jonathan Ogden 1 year overlap Walter Jones 2 year overlap Jason Peters 12 year overlap with 2 all pro Orlando Pace 3 year overlap Tyron Smith 8 year overlap with 2 all pro Willie Anderson 2 year overlap Andrew Whitworth 12 year overlap with 2 all pro Matt Light 5 year overlap with 1 all pro Trent Williams 9 year overlap Duane Brown 11 year overlap with 1 all pro David Bahktiari 6 year overlap with 1 all pro Jason Witten -- 2 all pro selections in 17 seasons. Peers at that time Tony Gonzalez 11 year overlap with 3 all pro Antonio Gates 16 year overlap with 3 all pro Rob Gronkowski 11 year overlap with 4 all pro Travis Kelce 7 year overlap with 2 all pro Jimmy Graham 10 year overlap with 1 all pro I look at the overlap of Witten playing in the same age as 4 of the top 10-12 TE of all time and still getting 2 all pro selections. VS Staley with some noted overlap of some good players, but outside of Joe Thomas with 6 all pro selections, the rest are nothing crazy in terms of all time greats. I will say that all pro selections are not the best way to look at this, but it is how the players were viewed relative to their peers at that time. That's why I hate pro bowl selections so much, and to me that's a much bigger problem than the HoF itself. They are usually crap and highly debatable, less so for the all pros, but the problem is still there. And to top it all off, you're gonna use that very flawed selection as a base for HoF criteria, which is doubling down on the problem. The ammount of scrutiny for the HoF does correct some of it, like I said previously., but if you wann fix something, start with pro bowls. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Posted February 13, 2022 Share Posted February 13, 2022 I think they need to open it up more temporarily for older players to get in. I think there are a handful of guys from the 60s-80s who need to get in before it's too late. A lot of Raiders fans were really upset with the fact that Cliff Branch was selected after he passed away. Just open it up for 3-4 years for the older players to finally get in and then close it back up to its current numbers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
x0x Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 I like Vermiel, I really do but him getting in over Siefert, Coughlin, Shanahan, Holmgren and even Coryell and Dan Reeves is unjustifiable. Like seriously there's no debate to be had except he was more liked by the voters on a personal level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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