DefenseWinsChampionships Posted March 4, 2022 Author Share Posted March 4, 2022 10 minutes ago, Matts4313 said: This is a simple statement that you need to process: Nobody gives a damn about how good he was 6 years ago. Stop bringing it up. You arent convincing anyone. For the last 3 years he has not been elite. Yes he had bulk numbers in 2019, but he looked slow and fat. 2020 he was terrible. 2021 he welllllllll below expectations for a "hof" back. 6 years ago? His Rookie season? Since when did Ezekiel Elliott put up 7,386 rushing yards during his Rookie season of 6 years ago? Since when did Ezekiel Elliott put up 56 Rushing TDs during his Rookie season of 6 years ago? Since when did Ezekiel Elliott put up 9,630 All-Purpose Scrimmage Yards during his Rookie season of 6 years ago? Since when did Ezekiel Elliott put up 68 Offensive TDs during his Rookie season of 6 years ago? Wow. I must've missed that Rookie season... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted March 4, 2022 Share Posted March 4, 2022 7 minutes ago, DefenseWinsChampionships said: 6 years ago? His Rookie season? Since when did Ezekiel Elliott put up 7,386 rushing yards during his Rookie season of 6 years ago? Since when did Ezekiel Elliott put up 56 Rushing TDs during his Rookie season of 6 years ago? Since when did Ezekiel Elliott put up 9,630 All-Purpose Scrimmage Yards during his Rookie season of 6 years ago? Since when did Ezekiel Elliott put up 68 Offensive TDs during his Rookie season of 6 years ago? Wow. I must've missed that Rookie season... Good, now that you realized you missed it, maybe you can admit you are wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted March 4, 2022 Share Posted March 4, 2022 10 minutes ago, DefenseWinsChampionships said: Walter Payton: 5th year: 1,610 rushing yards. 6th year: 1,460 rushing yards. 7th year: 1,222 rushing yards. 8th year: 596 rushing yards. "Hey. DWC. Your boy sweetness is done. He's washed up. Look at all these charts that show a steep 4 year decline. He'll never make the HOF now". What would DWC have done? Laughed @ them. And why? 9th Year: 1,421 rushing yards. 10th year: 1,684 rushing yards. 11th year: 1,561 rushing yards. 12th year: 1,333 rushing yards. Thankfully Sweetness fans didn't write him off all because of a "steep 4 year 5th-8th year declines". And this is a great example of why efficiency stats matter as well, because even though his bulk yards were declining steadily (though not significantly) each year, his efficiency stats weren't. He still averaged over 4.0 YPC in all of those years except '81 which is an outlier. And in fact, his yards/touch were holding steady near 5.0 the entire time. Do you want to repeat this example for Zeke's last 3 years? Because I've already provided you all the stats in this thread. EVERYTHING for Zeke is trending downards, and it's not a gradual decline either, it's a steep decline in both bulk and efficiency numbers. BUT, if you're just saying "I don't care about any of these stats or the fact that everything is trending downwards, he's going to turn this thing around and have a very successful next 6 years" that's totally fine, just stop pretending it's supported by any factual evidence and not just your opinion and guess. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefenseWinsChampionships Posted March 4, 2022 Author Share Posted March 4, 2022 Just now, AFlaccoSeagulls said: And this is a great example of why efficiency stats matter as well, because even though his bulk yards were declining steadily (though not significantly) each year, his efficiency stats weren't. He still averaged over 4.0 YPC in all of those years except '81 And didn't Zeke just average 4.2 yards per carry last year? So what are you saying? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted March 4, 2022 Share Posted March 4, 2022 1 hour ago, DefenseWinsChampionships said: In order for him to finish top 10 in both rushing yards and All-Purpose Yards from Scrimmage? Yes, he won’t reach that - at age 27, with a diminished skillset and a league that doesn’t value standard three down RBs anymore. I’d wager that he’s probably cut in the next two years, mostly because he’s losing a step. 1 hour ago, DefenseWinsChampionships said: His next 6 years don't have to be anywhere near as productive as his first 6 years. They won’t be - in fact, his next six years won’t be as productive as his first TWO years. 1 hour ago, DefenseWinsChampionships said: ✓ He's already ahead of the curve. But he’s well behind the curve going forward. - He’s getting older - He’s losing speed/strength/explosiveness - The NFL has changed in how RBs are used. Those are facts that cannot be refuted by any statistics you choose to repeat, so don’t bother with it. 1 hour ago, DefenseWinsChampionships said: PS: Mostly all HOF RBs had up and down years up and down years up and down years etc because rarely did any of them keep going up, up, up, up, up, up and into Canton (not the nature of the beast and not the nature of the position). Call me when we get to an “up” because it’s been “down, down, down” lately. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted March 4, 2022 Share Posted March 4, 2022 On 3/3/2022 at 7:35 AM, AFlaccoSeagulls said: I know literally nothing will change your mind and you'll probably either ignore this post or just quote it with some nonsense comparison to a RB in the 90's or some stupid false equivalency, but if Zeke isn't declining, why are all of his efficiency stats tanking over the last 3 consecutive years? Yards/game (2019 - now): 84.8 --> 65.3 --> 58.9 Yards/Attempt (2019 - now): 4.5 --> 4.0 --> 4.2 YAC/Attempt (2019 - now): 2.3 --> 2.1 --> 1.7 Broken Tackles (2019 - now): 24 --> 15 --> 9 Attempts/Broken Tackle (2019 - now): 12.5 --> 16.3 --> 26.3 Even if you just look at the stats it's easy to see a RB that is declining, especially when you consider that his production in 2021 in terms of bulk stats was entirely due to having a full extra game on the schedule. I don't even give a hoot about Zeke Elliott, but this delusion is just sad. 1 minute ago, DefenseWinsChampionships said: And didn't Zeke just average 4.2 yards per carry last year? So what are you saying? Yes, he did, and that is likely explained by his Yards Before Contact going to 2.5, the 2nd highest of his career, despite his Yards After Contact / Attempt continuing to decline to 1.7. You can find his full stats here and look at the trends for yourself: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/E/ElliEz00.htm Otherwise, let's stop pretending that you are basing your projections on facts/statistics and not just a blind homerism. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted March 4, 2022 Share Posted March 4, 2022 26 minutes ago, DefenseWinsChampionships said: Walter Payton: 5th year: 1,610 rushing yards. 6th year: 1,460 rushing yards. 7th year: 1,222 rushing yards. 8th year: 596 rushing yards. "Hey. DWC. Your boy sweetness is done. He's washed up. Look at all these charts that show a steep 4 year decline. He'll never make the HOF now". What would DWC have done? Laughed @ them. And why? 9th Year: 1,421 rushing yards. 10th year: 1,684 rushing yards. 11th year: 1,561 rushing yards. 12th year: 1,333 rushing yards. Thankfully Sweetness fans didn't write him off all because of a "steep 4 year 5th-8th year declines". Bruh, you using a season where he missed 7 games is super duper weaksauce. Look at his YPG. There is a 2 year dip, one in which he missed nearly half the season. But you know what? From 76-86, his YPG was never as low as 2021 Zeke. Payton was basically between 80-100 ypg each most every season with a few outliers. Games Rushing Receiving Total Yds Year Age Tm Pos No. G GS Rush Yds TD Lng Y/A Y/G A/G Rec Yds Y/R TD Lng R/G Y/G Touch Y/Tch YScm RRTD Fmb AV Awards Career 190 184 3838 16726 110 76 4.4 88.0 20.2 492 4538 9.2 15 75 2.6 23.9 4330 4.9 21264 125 86 167 1975 21 CHI RB 34 13 7 196 679 7 54 3.5 52.2 15.1 33 213 6.5 0 40 2.5 16.4 229 3.9 892 7 9 6 1976*+ 22 CHI RB 34 14 14 311 1390 13 60 4.5 99.3 22.2 15 149 9.9 0 34 1.1 10.6 326 4.7 1539 13 10 14 AP1, PB 1977*+ 23 CHI RB 34 14 14 339 1852 14 73 5.5 132.3 24.2 27 269 10.0 2 75 1.9 19.2 366 5.8 2121 16 11 20 AP MVP-1, AP OPoY-1, AP1, PB 1978* 24 CHI RB 34 16 16 333 1395 11 76 4.2 87.2 20.8 50 480 9.6 0 61 3.1 30.0 383 4.9 1875 11 5 15 AP2, PB 1979* 25 CHI RB 34 16 16 369 1610 14 43 4.4 100.6 23.1 31 313 10.1 2 65 1.9 19.6 400 4.8 1923 16 7 15 AP2, PB 1980*+ 26 CHI RB 34 16 16 317 1460 6 69 4.6 91.3 19.8 46 367 8.0 1 54 2.9 22.9 363 5.0 1827 7 5 15 AP1, PB 1981 27 CHI RB 34 16 16 339 1222 6 39 3.6 76.4 21.2 41 379 9.2 2 30 2.6 23.7 380 4.2 1601 8 9 8 1982 28 CHI RB 34 9 9 148 596 1 26 4.0 66.2 16.4 32 311 9.7 0 40 3.6 34.6 180 5.0 907 1 3 10 1983* 29 CHI RB 34 16 16 314 1421 6 49 4.5 88.8 19.6 53 607 11.5 2 74 3.3 37.9 367 5.5 2028 8 5 13 PB 1984*+ 30 CHI RB 34 16 16 381 1684 11 72 4.4 105.3 23.8 45 368 8.2 0 31 2.8 23.0 426 4.8 2052 11 5 16 AP MVP-3, AP1, PB 1985*+ 31 CHI RB 34 16 16 324 1551 9 40 4.8 96.9 20.3 49 483 9.9 2 65 3.1 30.2 373 5.5 2034 11 6 18 AP MVP-2, AP OPoY-2, AP1, PB 1986* 32 CHI RB 34 16 16 321 1333 8 41 4.2 83.3 20.1 37 382 10.3 3 57 2.3 23.9 358 4.8 1715 11 6 11 AP MVP-6, AP2, PB 1987 33 CHI RB 34 12 12 146 533 4 17 3.7 44.4 12.2 33 217 6.6 1 16 2.8 18.1 179 4.2 750 5 5 6 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefenseWinsChampionships Posted March 4, 2022 Author Share Posted March 4, 2022 2 minutes ago, ET80 said: Yes, he won’t reach that - at age 27, with a diminished skillset and a league that doesn’t value standard three down RBs anymore. I’d wager that he’s probably cut in the next two years, mostly because he’s losing a step. They won’t be - in fact, his next six years won’t be as productive as his first TWO years. But he’s well behind the curve going forward. - He’s getting older - He’s losing speed/strength/explosiveness - The NFL has changed in how RBs are used. Those are facts that cannot be refuted by any statistics you choose to repeat, so don’t bother with it. Call me when we get to an “up” because it’s been “down, down, down” lately. He's going to finish top 10 All-Time I'm rushing yards and top 10 All-Time in All-Purpose yards too and you know why? A ) Because he's not "old" like you say he is. He's only 26 years of age. B.) He's extremely durable. Durable only the great one's like Curtis Martin were. He barely ever misses any games. He'll go over 1,500 All-Purpose Yards from Scrimmage next year too (had 1,289 last year). You'll see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted March 4, 2022 Share Posted March 4, 2022 7 minutes ago, ET80 said: I’d wager that he’s probably cut in the next two years, mostly because he’s losing a step. If he isnt cut next offseason, I burn Jerryworld to the ground. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefenseWinsChampionships Posted March 4, 2022 Author Share Posted March 4, 2022 And when it's all said and done Zeke will make the Hall of Fame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted March 4, 2022 Share Posted March 4, 2022 1 minute ago, DefenseWinsChampionships said: He's going to finish top 10 All-Time I'm rushing yards and top 10 All-Time in All-Purpose yards too and you know why? A ) Because he's not "old" like you say he is. He's only 26 years of age. So in a league where the average age is 26, and average age of RB is 24, you think 26 isn’t old. You’re incorrect, but I’ll phrase it as such - he’s in the league for another three years. 3 minutes ago, DefenseWinsChampionships said: B ) He's extremely durable. Durable only the great one's like Curtis Martin were. He barely ever misses any games. Doesn’t mean he’s not slowing down. Keep up. 5 minutes ago, DefenseWinsChampionships said: He'll go over 1,500 All-Purpose Yards from Scrimmage next year too (had 1,289 last year). So he didn’t reach 1,500 last season, and you think he’s going to now. Why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted March 4, 2022 Share Posted March 4, 2022 1 minute ago, DefenseWinsChampionships said: And when it's all said and done Zeke will make the Hall of Fame. Whatever helps you sleep at night, princess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mox Posted March 4, 2022 Share Posted March 4, 2022 5 minutes ago, DefenseWinsChampionships said: He's going to finish top 10 All-Time I'm rushing yards and top 10 All-Time in All-Purpose yards too and you know why? A ) Because he's not "old" like you say he is. He's only 26 years of age. B.) He's extremely durable. Durable only the great one's like Curtis Martin were. He barely ever misses any games. He'll go over 1,500 All-Purpose Yards from Scrimmage next year too (had 1,289 last year). You'll see. For all intents and purposes he's 27. That's the age he'll play his next game at. Second, I'll absolutely take you up on that 1,500 yards bet. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefenseWinsChampionships Posted March 4, 2022 Author Share Posted March 4, 2022 3 minutes ago, Matts4313 said: If he isnt cut next offseason, I burn Jerryworld to the ground. I bet you wanted to quit on Michael Irvin after his first 3 years too. Didn't you? Next year #21 will prove you wrong and he'll be your starting RB in 2023-2024-2025 too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted March 4, 2022 Share Posted March 4, 2022 1 minute ago, DefenseWinsChampionships said: I bet you wanted to quit on Michael Irvin after his first 3 years too. Didn't you? Next year #21 will prove you wrong and he'll be your starting RB in 2023-2024-2025 too. rookie growing pains (especially with bad QB play) =/= year 4, 5, 6 declines. Dont be daft, the situations are completely different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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