Justice League

[Calvert28]

50 minutes ago, jonu62882 said:

Anyone know what Superman was gonna say at the beginning when some kids are questioning him about his favorite thing about the people on Earth?  He thinks about it for a long time and then gives a smirk...

He's thinking certain things about Lois he can't say on camera. But that smirk says it all. 

[Thelonebillsfan]

Yeah this isn't reviving the DCEU, though, despite being a pretty solid film.

It bombed. Booooooombed.

[StLunatic88]

6 hours ago, Thelonebillsfan said:

Yeah this isn't reviving the DCEU, though, despite being a pretty solid film.

It bombed. Booooooombed.

Im just wondering how long it will take for people to realize that the Domestic box office isnt nearly as important as it used to be.

[O'Doyle Rules]

9 hours ago, Calvert28 said:

Yea hard to top Downey Jr. as Tony Stark, even Henry Cavill has a case as perfect choice for Superman considering he looks like a Greek God. Doesn't even have to act. 

Patrick Stewart as xavier.  Jackman as wolverine.

[Acgott]

1 hour ago, StLunatic88 said:

Im just wondering how long it will take for people to realize that the Domestic box office isnt nearly as important as it used to be.

Could you explain why this is the case. I believe Studios get much less off the international compared to the domestic.

[jonu62882]

7 hours ago, Calvert28 said:

He's thinking certain things about Lois he can't say on camera. But that smirk says it all. 

I figured maybe it was Lois or something...yeah she is fine.  But WW was mmmmm mmmm

[Calvert28]

3 minutes ago, jonu62882 said:

I figured maybe it was Lois or something...yeah she is fine.  But WW was mmmmm mmmm

Oh obviously. But Lois must be a sorceress in the sheets. Cause she has that boy whooped. 

[StLunatic88]

7 minutes ago, Acgott said:

Could you explain why this is the case. I believe Studios get much less off the international compared to the domestic.

I dont know the actual accrual split for the studios, but there is now more money to be made internationally than ever before. So even if the net profit is less, if you are making double the income, its still more profitable. How do you think the Transformers movies are still profitable?

Im not saying this isnt a disappointing opening weekend, $96m clearly is, but JL just made $75m more internationally than Ragnarok did overseas (and $26m less domestically). In the end the studio can make the numbers say whatever they want them to, but this is likely to still be profitable.

What will be more telling is what the 2nd weekend will be. We have already touched on the RT score. But any time this movie is actually talked about, its usually "enjoyable, worth the money" and if people were worried it would be garbage, they may have been just waiting. If they end up with something like a 40% drop or less, they will be just fine. Especially with the Holiday weekend, they could really make up some ground here. But if they see the usually ~60% drop that many of these type of movies usually see, then it would be hurting.

[jonu62882]

11 minutes ago, Calvert28 said:

Oh obviously. But Lois must be a sorceress in the sheets. Cause she has that boy whooped. 

The Red Priestess...fiery reds are hot.

[MacReady]

Just now, Acgott said:

Could you explain why this is the case. I believe Studios get much less off the international compared to the domestic.

It's not the case.  No movie loses money, but when you're talking about hundreds of millions of dollars, less than hundreds of millions of dollars is not a success.  Domestic box office absolutely is the end all most important aspect for studios to measure a film's success.  Studios make somewhere between 50% of what the domestic box office makes.  40% international.  25% from China.  It's even less when you consider what the theaters make and advertisement costs.  He's right only in the sense that ancillary markets are more important.  Justice League will make back its 300 million from ancillary markets.  Eventually.  Five-ten years down the road.  This includes merchandise (toys, shirts, etc) and blu ray sales as well as television rights. 

No movie loses money these days, especially not blockbusters with mass merchandise appeal like Justice League.  Except...

These are studios that deal with hundreds of millions of dollars.  Breaking even or recouping your budget five years down the road isn't why they make movies.  They make movies for those ancillary sales AND box office returns. 

The budget for Justice League is estimated at 300 million dollars.  Now you've got to consider that a movie usually spends half its budget on advertising.  So you're looking at 450 million dollars for Justice League.  Studios measure the success of a movie by how much the domestic box office returns do to recover their budget.  In that way, Justice League VERY MUCH, NO ARGUMENTS TO BE MADE, ABSOLUTELY will be a failure for them.

A very large failure.  It's like a day trader.  You think they're going to be content with something that makes them money 5 years down the road?  No.  That's not their job, that's not their goal. 

So when people say a year from now that Justice League made back its budget by adding up international and domestic returns, they're lying.  Yes, it will make its money back.  But according to studios, it's a failure. 

Suicide Squad was very much considered a failure because it was.  175 million budget.  Add 50% of that and you've got 263 million.  325 domestic returns.  Half of that is 162.5 million. 

420 internationally and if we're being fair they got 40% of that even though they probably got somewhere around 35% of that.  168 million.  162.5 plus 168 equals 330.5 million and you're looking at less than 100 million in profit for a movie from box office returns.  That sounds like a lot of money, and if you're asking how that could be a failure, consider Age of Ultron, considered the biggest Marvel underperformer. 

250 + advertising = 375.
459 domestic in half = 229.5 domestic returns. 
946 million internationally 40% = 378 million international returns.

That's 607 million in profits for a 375 million budget. 

So yes, domestic absolutely is important as a measure of success.  They make more money domestically than they do internationally, and money is money.  If it fails domestically, it's a failure to studios.  Flat out, no question. 

If anybody thinks otherwise, they should go up to a studio exec and ask if they'd rather make their money back domestically or not. 
 

[iLikeDefense]

@HorizontoZenith that was a legit breakdown. Thanks for that.

[StLunatic88]

2 hours ago, HorizontoZenith said:

If anybody thinks otherwise, they should go up to a studio exec and ask if they'd rather make their money back domestically or not.

You are correct. And I shouldnt have been so flippant with my comments.

What I was trying to get at is that the old school thinking of a movie is the Domestic Number is the end all be all, nothing else matters, and that is just not the case anymore these days.While it is still the most important, and usually the best indicator, the emerging international markets are serious impacts to the bottom line now, where as a decade ago, no one paid much attention to them.

 

This also gets into semantics when looking at a very odd situation like Justice League. When we get into the area of "failure" as a vehicle for the studio. They had to throw alot of money at this to just fix what they ended up putting out. So how much do they feel was a sunk cost at this point, and are just looking at this as a new jumping off point (or more likely a salvaging point) for the franchise?

Definitely got off topic here, now Im just throwing out there how the with the hurdles they hit (extra expenses) the expectations for this film is probably much different than they originally had.

[MacReady]

Yeah, I think WB knew this movie was going to be a failure either way.  I think they just wanted to make it as little a failure as it could be, so they sunk more money into it and hoped for the best.  The movie will definitely make money, but it is absolutely a failure as far as WB is concerned.  At 94 million its first week, it's probably a bigger failure than even they anticipated based on strong opening numbers for BvS and Suicide Squad.  Now they have to decide what they're going to do about it. 

They're not really in a tricky situation here at all though.  They have an EXTREMELY easy out.  Wonder Woman was good and well-received by everyone.  Everything else... Wasn't.  The Flash got more praise than any other aspect of Justice League that I've seen.  Aquaman has already been made.  How do they keep Wonder Woman and The Flash and change everything else (possibly Aquaman if his movie isn't a hit)?  Extremely simply, they do a Flashpoint.  Wonder Woman = not effected.  Aquaman = not effected.  Everything else changes, and you have MoS, BvS, Suicide Squad and Justice League as an alternate reality bonus set of movies. 

[StLunatic88]

3 minutes ago, HorizontoZenith said:

They're not really in a tricky situation here at all though.  They have an EXTREMELY easy out.  Wonder Woman was good and well-received by everyone.  Everything else... Wasn't.  The Flash got more praise than any other aspect of Justice League that I've seen.  Aquaman has already been made.  How do they keep Wonder Woman and The Flash and change everything else (possibly Aquaman if his movie isn't a hit)?  Extremely simply, they do a Flashpoint.  Wonder Woman = not effected.  Aquaman = not effected.  Everything else changes, and you have MoS, BvS, Suicide Squad and Justice League as an alternate reality bonus set of movies. 

I think you are right, and despite all the arguments that have gone on in this thread, most of us agree with your core thesis of the Flashpoint. But I think it comes down to many are worried that there are still pitfalls with doing a flashpoint, and given the track record, can WB/DC effectively avoid those?

I would say the best option if they go with the Flashpoint, because Ezra's character has been so well received, infuse alittle Deadpool into part of that film (the end/post credit). Dont change the Flash character and go 4th wall breaking or anything like that. But really hang a lampshade on the changes. Just point them out right away, present them face on, and we can move onto the new continuity quickly. That way we can all look back on MoS/BvS/SS with a bit of weird nostalgia down the line, as like you said, this weird alternate universe.

Im just envisioning the end of Flashpoint where Barry notices its a different Bruce Wayne and makes a "who is this guy" type comment. And then in a post credit, he runs through the speed force for some quick stops to see the few things that changed (New Joker, no Cyborg, Lex Sr., and like Martain Manhunter in the League now)

[Acgott]

7 minutes ago, StLunatic88 said:

Im just envisioning the end of Flashpoint where Barry notices its a different Bruce Wayne and makes a "who is this guy" type comment. And then in a post credit, he runs through the speed force for some quick stops to see the few things that changed (New Joker, no Cyborg, Lex Sr., and like Martain Manhunter in the League now)

They aren't replacing poor Cyborg already. I love MM, but he's not coming anytime soon. I'm curious how many of the JL heroes will be in Flashpoint. We can assume that Jeffrey Dean Morgan or someone else will play Thomas Wayne, but what about Wonder Woman and Aquaman. I really would love that Amazon vs Atlanteon War.