Draft Day - how it's all going to go down (3 rounds)

[vegas492]

Just now, Scoremore said:

Yah Vegas always thought that would be a great training tool to increase foot speed.  Used to be a Hack god back in my college days.  Everything starts with the feet.  It would be a great training tool for some of these guys.  

I tried it a few times when I was young.  It was great...for everyone watching me.  Zero skill and zero talent at that thing!  But?  Hilarious to watch.

[Scoremore]

5 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

I tried it a few times when I was young.  It was great...for everyone watching me.  Zero skill and zero talent at that thing!  But?  Hilarious to watch.

Was a big thing in high school.  We'd all play.  Taught myself over Easter break.  Key was to only practice one kick at a time and master it.  Repetition.  Tried picking up a hack last summer.  Definitely not like riding a bike.  My legs don't move like that anymore...Ran a 4.6 40 in College.  Not bad for a tall skinny white guy who smokes cigarettes.  Had tremendous balance and wicked fast feet back then.  Always felt it would be a real effective way to help some of the less natural athletes.  

Edited March 31, 2022 by Scoremore

[vegas492]

12 minutes ago, Scoremore said:

Was a big thing in high school.  We'd all play.  Taught myself over Easter break.  Key was to only practice one kick at a time and master it.  Repetition.  Tried picking up a hack last summer.  Definitely not like riding a bike.  My legs don't move like that anymore...Ran a 4.6 40 in College.  Not bad for a tall skinny white guy who smokes cigarettes.  Had tremendous balance and wicked fast feet back then.  Always felt it would be a real effective way to help some of the less natural athletes.  

Jumping rope always helped me a lot when I was playing.  

I flew on a 40 yard dash once while at a football camp.  I think I ran a 4.95.  LOL.

[R T]

33 minutes ago, VegasDan said:

I think TT was easier to predict than Gute. As you said, I thought Alexander was a great player, but didn't have him on my mocks because of his height and injury history. The 2 reasons he was available to us in the first place. 

And I can't see how you can't watch Wilson and not be impressed and imagine what he could do with Rodgers as his QB. Tall and big target is one way to get a reception. Smart, quick and elusive is another way.  Because there are so many good WRs in the draft, he becomes available later as teams realize they can pick one up later. So many edges and OTs (more premium positions) may also slide this very talented player enough to allow us to trade up for.  

Gutes has been with the Packers since the Ron Wolf days, that acorn hasn't fallen that far from the tree. 

Yes of course Wison is impressive, he will likely be a very good player. But I don't know how many more different ways I can say this on this thread, he is not a complete player for MLF's scheme and there is little to no chance the Packers spend that kind of draft capital on a player that isn't an ideal fit. If you are hiring someone to do a warehouse job and one of the jobs is the ability to lift 60 lbs. boxes, you are not out looking to hire someone who can't lift 60 lbs. boxes no matter how good they can do other parts of the job. There is no need to draft 180 lbs. WR to do some of the jobs when they can draft a WR that can do all of the jobs.      

[VegasDan]

33 minutes ago, R T said:

Gutes has been with the Packers since the Ron Wolf days, that acorn hasn't fallen that far from the tree. 

Yes of course Wison is impressive, he will likely be a very good player. But I don't know how many more different ways I can say this on this thread, he is not a complete player for MLF's scheme and there is little to no chance the Packers spend that kind of draft capital on a player that isn't an ideal fit. If you are hiring someone to do a warehouse job and one of the jobs is the ability to lift 60 lbs. boxes, you are not out looking to hire someone who can't lift 60 lbs. boxes no matter how good they can do other parts of the job. There is no need to draft 180 lbs. WR to do some of the jobs when they can draft a WR that can do all of the jobs.      

Not sure I follow the analogy or the logic. Being tall isn't a scheme.  If that was the key to success we could just put high heels on these guys.   

The goal of a WR on a pass play is to get open. You can beat a DB and get open by:

Being taller

Longer arms

Faster

Quicker

Route running skills

Smarter schematically

Pushing off (Micheal irvin *cough*)

Out muscling jump balls

Jumping higher

Etc.

 

Now, I think Rodgers prefers a bigger target. But he also likes Cobb so I know he has some flexibility there.

 

What about the scheme, in your eyes, requires tall wrs?

Edited March 31, 2022 by VegasDan

[R T]

2 minutes ago, VegasDan said:

Not sure I follow the analogy or the logic. Being tall isn't a scheme.  If that was the key to success we could just put high heels on these guys.   

The goal of a WR on a pass play is to get open. You can beat a DB and get open by:

Being taller

Longer arms

Faster

Quicker

Route running skills

Smarter schematically

Pushing off (Micheal irvin *cough*)

Out muscling jump balls

Jumping higher

Etc.

 

Now, I think Rodgers prefers a bigger target. But he also likes Cobb so I know he has some flexibility there.

Enjoy your post brother, but baffled when people don't understand what MLF wants from him WR's. One of the jobs qualifications is being an effective blocker in the run game, something a 180 lbs. WR is just naturally not going to do well. Blocking is a big part of it and there is no reason to spend high end draft capital on a player that just can't do the whole job.  

[OneTwoSixFive]

4 hours ago, CWood21 said:

I think there's about a 1% chance that the Packers first two picks are WRs.

Did a PFN mock today where I took WRs Drake London and Christian Watson at 22 and 28. Then I went Edge Kingsley Enagbare, DT/Edge Logan Hall, TE Jelani Woods, to round out round 3. That looks like a nice haul to  me. Some might think one or more of these picks is a reach............maybe, maybe not.

[VegasDan]

14 minutes ago, R T said:

Enjoy your post brother, but baffled when people don't understand what MLF wants from him WR's. One of the jobs qualifications is being an effective blocker in the run game, something a 180 lbs. WR is just naturally not going to do well. Blocking is a big part of it and there is no reason to spend high end draft capital on a player that just can't do the whole job.  

Able to block is the first legitimate defense on your position.  But I'm not sure how well he can block, now that you mention it. Nor how much that will matter to gute.

[Shanedorf]

25 minutes ago, VegasDan said:

What about the scheme, in your eyes, requires tall wrs?

Some WRs have to block sometimes, but maybe not all. Sometimes just getting in front of a defender is enough.

And when you're looking for a truly dynamic playmaking WR - blocking skills are usually in short supply.
MLF said he doesn't want all one type of WR - he likened it to assembling a hoops team- you need different sizes, capabilities, traits to make a Championship team.

Some Packer fans have latched onto the blocking component- and while its important- it isn't The Decider for all WRs.
The GB F.O. typically liked the bigger players so they can out-muscle defenders in December...and having bulk and length helps with that.

But there's also an important role for a dynamic playmaker and those guys are getting due consideration at 1265 - despite their diminutive stature.
It would be silly to categorically rule them out and MLF said himself he wants a variety of body types

[packfanfb]

7 minutes ago, OneTwoSixFive said:

Did a PFN mock today where I took WRs Drake London and Christian Watson at 22 and 28. Then I went Edge Kingsley Enagbare, DT/Edge Logan Hall, TE Jelani Woods, to round out round 3. That looks like a nice haul to  me. Some might think one or more of these picks is a reach............maybe, maybe not.

Did a Draft Network one yesterday where my top 5 were London, Olave, Hall, Brisker and Strange. Lol. I call that the wet dream mock. 

[VegasDan]

1 hour ago, vegas492 said:

Answer me this concerning Wilson.  Mind you, I want to be sold on him.  I don't know him outside of his highlight reels on YouTube.

What does he bring to the table that other guys like him don't have (and haven't succeeded yet).  Talking about the Paris Campbell's of the world.  Phillip Dorsett.. .Devin Smith...etc.

When I watch Wilson, the word "smooth" does not come to mind.  He isn't crisp.  I see straight line speed.  Not a great route runner.  I just see speed and acceleration.

So what makes him more likely to "hit" than Campbell, Doresett or Smith?   

I think Wilson is smooth.  I think he is a superb athlete. Especially in coordination and balance. He has the amazing ability to operate upper body and arms separate from his legs.  So many WRs shift from the route to catching the ball. They alter their gate. A few WRs (devante was excellent at this) move fluidly through the whole process. He is a natural pass catcher making it look effortless. He is explosive and quick - seems to get open easily.  He is really good.

[vegas492]

21 minutes ago, R T said:

Enjoy your post brother, but baffled when people don't understand what MLF wants from him WR's. One of the jobs qualifications is being an effective blocker in the run game, something a 180 lbs. WR is just naturally not going to do well. Blocking is a big part of it and there is no reason to spend high end draft capital on a player that just can't do the whole job.  

Not totally disagreeing with you.

Your point is that you don't trade up to select a guy who doesn't 100% fit the offense.  And in our offense, WR's do need to block.

I agree to a point.  Adams was never gonna be a great blocker.  Amari Rodgers doesn't have the size to do that too good either.  Some guys are drafted and play because they excel at other things.  The Lazard (Big Slot) role is that of a blocker.  Obviously MVS could do it as a boundary WR, due to his size.  ESB could block, if only he wanted to.

I'm not going to discount us taking a WR who will never be a good blocker, if he has another trait that is exceptional, like Olave at running routes.  So long as that WR is a willing blocker, meaning he will go lock up a DB when asked.

But yah, I don't see trading up for a WR when they have a mark against them already in our offense.  I do see us overlooking something like that if we stay where we are, or move up just slightly.

[OneTwoSixFive]

3 minutes ago, packfanfb said:

Did a Draft Network one yesterday where my top 5 were London, Olave, Hall, Brisker and Strange. Lol. I call that the wet dream mock. 

DT/Edge Hall, FS Brisker and OG Strange........that's a fair bit of attitude there.

[Chili]

41 minutes ago, VegasDan said:

Now, I think Rodgers prefers a bigger target. But he also likes Cobb so I know he has some flexibility there.

Rodgers doesn't prefer bigger targets, he prefers those who can get open on the ground. Shorter guys tend to get open better than bigger guys that's why he had much success with Driver, Jennings, Jones, Cobb. Adams. Nelson was actually the exception.

I think LaFleur and/or Gute prefers bigger WRs because of the run blocking aspect of the system. Gute has gone out of his way to get big WRs for LaFleur - MVS, EQ, Lazard, Funchess plus quite a few street FA like Malone, Fulgham and Hazelton etc... All those bigger guys and guess what....Rodgers never developed a rapport with any of them. That should tell you something about WR types Rodgers prefers.

Edited March 31, 2022 by Chili

[vegas492]

4 minutes ago, VegasDan said:

I think Wilson is smooth.  I think he is a superb athlete. Especially in coordination and balance. He has the amazing ability to operate upper body and arms separate from his legs.  So many WRs shift from the route to catching the ball. They alter their gate. A few WRs (devante was excellent at this) move fluidly through the whole process. He is a natural pass catcher making it look effortless. He is explosive and quick - seems to get open easily.  He is really good.

You could say that about Campbell, Smith and Dorsett, too.  Again, I'm not seeing anything from Wilson that I didn't see from those other guys.

And when I see Wilson, I see elbows and heels flying all over the place on routes.  Nothing looks crisp or smooth to me, especially when compared to Olave.

I see some elite stuff with Wilson, speed and acceleration, but those small/speed guys tend to wash more than they tend to stick.

Guess that is my only point.  And since you can't tell me why he's different than those other three, I'll take that to mean that you don't recall those other three that well and can't talk comps, which is totally fine by me.

Still, I'm hoping someone could "sell" me on Wilson.