mtmmike Posted April 10, 2022 Share Posted April 10, 2022 23 hours ago, Matts4313 said: Elite QB Tier: 1. Patrick Mahomes 2. Aaron Rodgers 3. Tom Brady 4. Josh Allen 5. Justin Herbert Outstanding QB Tier: 6. Joe Burrow 7. Russell Wilson 8. Deshaun Watson 9. Matt Stafford 10. Dak Prescott Above-Average QB Tier: 11. Lamar Jackson 12. Kyler Murray 13. Kirk Cousins 14. Derek Carr 15. Ryan Tannehil Average QB Tier: 16. Matt Ryan 17. Jimmy Garoppolo 18. Mac Jones 19. Baker Mayfield Below-Average QB Tier: 20. Jameis Winston 21. Jared Goff 22. Carson Wentz Developmental QB Tier: 23. Trevor Lawrence 24. Tua Tagovailoa 25. Jalen Hurts 26. Justin Fields Bridgegap QB Tier: 27. Teddy Bridgewater Developmental QB Tier: 28. Trey Lance 29. Zach Wilson 30. Davis Mills Bad Starting QB Tier: 31. Gardner Minshew 32. Mitch Trubisky Quality Backup QB Tier: 33. Daniel Jones 34. Marcus Mariota Developmental QB Tier: 35. Jordan Love Quality Backup QB Tier: 36. Taylor Heinicke Fixed the tiers Excellent post Matt. To me my my first criteria for a Excellent qb He performs his best in the biggest moments. Mayfield played one of his best games against Pittsburgh the guy thru for 3 touchdowns and no interceptions against a top 5 defense in the NFL. This is why guys like Aikman rate high on my list. Deshaun for example is only 500 against the afc North and we could easily have 3 teams in top 5 in defense. Point 2 his qb win percentage in the playoffs is only 334 when you combine both of those statistics I see a average qb in are l conference not elite. 3rd point deshaun is going to have outperform 9 number 1 draft picks this to me has the potential to lead to DISASTER. Example Cincinnati gets to draft 3 Chases BALTIMORE GETS TO DRAFT 3 DAVIS LEVEL PLAYERS. PITTSBURGH gets to draft 3 Williams wr alabama. If these guys due a excellent job of drafting We will be in last place even if Deshaun hits his average of 104. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancerman Posted April 10, 2022 Share Posted April 10, 2022 1 hour ago, Matts4313 said: If were going to talk about context, then Brady has also played, what, 6 more years in the "easy" passing era. At one point, you know who the (tied) #1 rated QBs in the NFL were? Romo and Manning at 97-98ish. Now, 98 is considered pretty great, but the leader is at 105. Brady was drafted two seasons after Manning and started a season later. They are of the same era. If Brady is lasting longer into this easier era, it's largely because of his durability which is more of a check in his column as a player (especially since he's playing at an extremely high MVP caliber level at an advanced age). Yes passer ratings have been inflated. Manning was one of the first to benefit from it in 2004 when they tightened up on defensive holding and he had elite talent around him and had a record breaking year. Realistically though, a lot of the narrative around Brady and Mannng was built in that 03-04 period where Brady was winning Super Bowls and Manning was winning MVP's. At that time a narrative was built that Brady was the winner and Manning was the stat guy and fans chose between what they thought was more valuable. That nearly two decades ago and the situations dramatically changed. Brady put up seasons like 2007 and 2010 that are as good as Manning's best seasons and the stats have evened themselves out over time as Brady spent more of his career with better pass catching corps than his early career. Right Brady is ahead in passer rating, there is a negligible .2% difference in Manning's favor in yards per average and TD%, Brady has a near full percent INT% advantage, even when they were playing at the same time Brady routinely had more sub 10 INT seasons than Manning who always was on the higher end there. The reality is statistically they ended up being pretty similar for two guys that ended up in the same era with the biggest difference being that Peyton had some slightly better volume when he played, but was offset by Brady being much better with INT's. Brady's longevity being an x factor sort of is breaking that tie statistically as Brady's blown past Manning in total volume and is getting more at bats in a more inflated era. That's just statisical analysis. Once you add in everything else, it just starts becoming overkill for Brady. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtmmike Posted April 10, 2022 Share Posted April 10, 2022 52 minutes ago, lancerman said: Brady was drafted two seasons after Manning and started a season later. They are of the same era. If Brady is lasting longer into this easier era, it's largely because of his durability which is more of a check in his column as a player (especially since he's playing at an extremely high MVP caliber level at an advanced age). Yes passer ratings have been inflated. Manning was one of the first to benefit from it in 2004 when they tightened up on defensive holding and he had elite talent around him and had a record breaking year. Realistically though, a lot of the narrative around Brady and Mannng was built in that 03-04 period where Brady was winning Super Bowls and Manning was winning MVP's. At that time a narrative was built that Brady was the winner and Manning was the stat guy and fans chose between what they thought was more valuable. That nearly two decades ago and the situations dramatically changed. Brady put up seasons like 2007 and 2010 that are as good as Manning's best seasons and the stats have evened themselves out over time as Brady spent more of his career with better pass catching corps than his early career. Right Brady is ahead in passer rating, there is a negligible .2% difference in Manning's favor in yards per average and TD%, Brady has a near full percent INT% advantage, even when they were playing at the same time Brady routinely had more sub 10 INT seasons than Manning who always was on the higher end there. The reality is statistically they ended up being pretty similar for two guys that ended up in the same era with the biggest difference being that Peyton had some slightly better volume when he played, but was offset by Brady being much better with INT's. Brady's longevity being an x factor sort of is breaking that tie statistically as Brady's blown past Manning in total volume and is getting more at bats in a more inflated era. That's just statisical analysis. Once you add in everything else, it just starts becoming overkill for Brady. Excellent post well researched. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted April 10, 2022 Share Posted April 10, 2022 58 minutes ago, lancerman said: If Brady is lasting longer into this easier era, That was literally the only point of that post. Manning had more years in the less easy, Brady had more in the post-easy. Im not sure if you feel like I am knocking Brady? The whole world understands he had the GOAT career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullsandBroncos Posted April 10, 2022 Share Posted April 10, 2022 1 hour ago, Matts4313 said: That was literally the only point of that post. Manning had more years in the less easy, Brady had more in the post-easy. Im not sure if you feel like I am knocking Brady? The whole world understands he had the GOAT career. Nope Montana still the goat. Rule changes are all I have to say. Won't acknowledge any stupid statistical argument to rebut it either. 😬 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted April 10, 2022 Share Posted April 10, 2022 21 minutes ago, BullsandBroncos said: Nope Montana still the goat. Rule changes are all I have to say. Won't acknowledge any stupid statistical argument to rebut it either. 😬 Why is Montana the GOAT in your opinion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullsandBroncos Posted April 10, 2022 Share Posted April 10, 2022 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Matts4313 said: Why is Montana the GOAT in your opinion? Played and beat great teams in the biggest games without being protected or given preferential treatment and did so while taking a beating every game. Edited April 10, 2022 by BullsandBroncos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biggie. Posted April 10, 2022 Share Posted April 10, 2022 Brady won 3 Super Bowls before the "rule changes". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted April 10, 2022 Author Share Posted April 10, 2022 On 4/9/2022 at 9:16 AM, Matts4313 said: Elite QB Tier: 1. Patrick Mahomes 2. Aaron Rodgers 3. Tom Brady 4. Josh Allen 5. Justin Herbert Outstanding QB Tier: 6. Joe Burrow 7. Russell Wilson 8. Deshaun Watson 9. Matt Stafford 10. Dak Prescott Above-Average QB Tier: 11. Lamar Jackson 12. Kyler Murray 13. Kirk Cousins 14. Derek Carr 15. Ryan Tannehil Average QB Tier: 16. Matt Ryan 17. Jimmy Garoppolo 18. Mac Jones 19. Baker Mayfield Below-Average QB Tier: 20. Jameis Winston 21. Jared Goff 22. Carson Wentz Developmental QB Tier: 23. Trevor Lawrence 24. Tua Tagovailoa 25. Jalen Hurts 26. Justin Fields Bridgegap QB Tier: 27. Teddy Bridgewater Developmental QB Tier: 28. Trey Lance 29. Zach Wilson 30. Davis Mills Bad Starting QB Tier: 31. Gardner Minshew 32. Mitch Trubisky Quality Backup QB Tier: 33. Daniel Jones 34. Marcus Mariota Developmental QB Tier: 35. Jordan Love Quality Backup QB Tier: 36. Taylor Heinicke Fixed the tiers If we are gonna make the elite tier shorter, it has to be after Brady. There is definitely not whole tier gap between Allen/Herbert and Burrow/Wilson/Watson… 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted April 10, 2022 Share Posted April 10, 2022 32 minutes ago, BayRaider said: If we are gonna make the elite tier shorter, it has to be after Brady. There is definitely not whole tier gap between Allen/Herbert and Burrow/Wilson/Watson… Im fine with that also, Allen was pretty average last year but he went insane in the playoffs. So thats hit or miss. Herbert has the "loser" label (I dont counts win/loss on QBs) so thats fair also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted April 10, 2022 Share Posted April 10, 2022 38 minutes ago, biggie. said: Brady won 3 Super Bowls before the "rule changes". Bradys exact words: "I won 3 superbowls before I realized it was hard" => He got carried for 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted April 10, 2022 Share Posted April 10, 2022 44 minutes ago, BullsandBroncos said: Played and beat great teams in the biggest games without being protected or given preferential treatment and did so while taking a beating every game. So in your opinion, no QB will ever be able to surpass him? Additionally, Bradshaw? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biggie. Posted April 10, 2022 Share Posted April 10, 2022 29 minutes ago, Matts4313 said: Bradys exact words: "I won 3 superbowls before I realized it was hard" => He got carried for 3. That's why he won two MVPs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted April 10, 2022 Share Posted April 10, 2022 24 minutes ago, biggie. said: That's why he won two MVPs. You mean he played QB on the winning team? 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
43M Posted April 10, 2022 Share Posted April 10, 2022 (edited) I see FF still loves to throw the term "elite" around like its nothing. 8 elite QBs? Mahomes, Brady, Rodgers and probably Allen. Thats it right now. What has Herbert done to be elite? I really like him, and you can argue he is off to an elite START....but he has no business being mentioned with guys like Mahomes, Brady or even Allen at this point. Same with Burrow. He had an amazing 2021....but he needs more than one year to be elite. Watson and Wilson could be elite, but I wouldnt put them there until they show they can get back to that level. Edited April 10, 2022 by 43M 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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