Round 4 Pick 140; Zach Tom, OL, Wake Forest

[MaximusGluteus]

6 hours ago, Refugee said:

he’s not that big

Per combine numbers he is the same height and 5 lbs heavier than Bakh when he was coming into the league.  It's weird because on film he looks small but he's lean so he carries his weight really well.  I don't know if he played at a lower weight and gained the extra weight for the combine but even if he did he still put up elite numbers even with extra weight on.  He was one of my favorites for GB in the pre-draft process so I was pumped they ended up with him.

[Mr Bad Example]

On 4/30/2022 at 3:28 PM, incognito_man said:

This deserves upvotes

Either upvotes or scorn, I can't decide which

[craig]

On 5/3/2022 at 6:56 AM, MaximusGluteus said:

Per combine numbers he is the same height and 5 lbs heavier than Bakh when he was coming into the league.  It's weird because on film he looks small but he's lean so he carries his weight really well.  I don't know if he played at a lower weight and gained the extra weight for the combine but even if he did he still put up elite numbers even with extra weight on.  He was one of my favorites for GB in the pre-draft process so I was pumped they ended up with him.

I don't mean to be negatory, but there is a significant difference in the Tom/Bakh analogy.  Bakhti was 21 when he was drafted, Tom is 23.  That's a premium age when men grow bigger and stronger. 

The 23-year-old Bakhi was significantly stronger and bigger than the draft/rookie-year version. 

• The rookie Bakhi always had the quick feet, the quick mind, and the balance that have made him what he is. 
• As a rookie he was good.... for a 4th-round rookie. 
• But I'm not sure he was above-average relative to other starting LT's in the league.  Because of his lack of strength. 
• Bull-rushers were sometimes able to push him back pretty forcefully.  And sometimes he was setting and committing so hard to try to withstand bull-rush that he'd get beat by other moves.
• And he had little power or push in the run game, although he still of course had the feet.  

I'm not at all trying to discredit Tom or what he might become.  But I'm kinda wondering whether, with two more years of body-building already behind him at a power-conference weightroom, whether he might more-or-less already be near his optimal physique, and whether optimal Tom might always be limited by the same strength/size/power constraints that limited the rookie-version of Bakhti?  

[MaximusGluteus]

3 hours ago, craig said:

I don't mean to be negatory, but there is a significant difference in the Tom/Bakh analogy.  Bakhti was 21 when he was drafted, Tom is 23.  That's a premium age when men grow bigger and stronger. 

The 23-year-old Bakhi was significantly stronger and bigger than the draft/rookie-year version. 

• The rookie Bakhi always had the quick feet, the quick mind, and the balance that have made him what he is. 
• As a rookie he was good.... for a 4th-round rookie. 
• But I'm not sure he was above-average relative to other starting LT's in the league.  Because of his lack of strength. 
• Bull-rushers were sometimes able to push him back pretty forcefully.  And sometimes he was setting and committing so hard to try to withstand bull-rush that he'd get beat by other moves.
• And he had little power or push in the run game, although he still of course had the feet.  

I'm not at all trying to discredit Tom or what he might become.  But I'm kinda wondering whether, with two more years of body-building already behind him at a power-conference weightroom, whether he might more-or-less already be near his optimal physique, and whether optimal Tom might always be limited by the same strength/size/power constraints that limited the rookie-version of Bakhti?  

I wasn't at all implying he was going to be good as Bakhtiari, was just using Bakh as a size comp when coming out of college since Tom looks smaller than he measured at the Combine.  I do like the guy, but the possibility of him becoming Bakhtiari level or Jenkins level is obviously pretty low.  I think at the very least he can be a solid player, and if nothing else the swing guy who can fill in if your starters go down without having such a huge drop off that your offense nearly grinds to a halt.  I also think he has the potential to be really good, and I don't see him being 23 hindering that.

Edited May 4, 2022 by MaximusGluteus

[HyponGrey]

On 5/4/2022 at 8:56 AM, craig said:

I don't mean to be negatory, but there is a significant difference in the Tom/Bakh analogy.  Bakhti was 21 when he was drafted, Tom is 23.  That's a premium age when men grow bigger and stronger. 

The 23-year-old Bakhi was significantly stronger and bigger than the draft/rookie-year version. 

• The rookie Bakhi always had the quick feet, the quick mind, and the balance that have made him what he is. 
• As a rookie he was good.... for a 4th-round rookie. 
• But I'm not sure he was above-average relative to other starting LT's in the league.  Because of his lack of strength. 
• Bull-rushers were sometimes able to push him back pretty forcefully.  And sometimes he was setting and committing so hard to try to withstand bull-rush that he'd get beat by other moves.
• And he had little power or push in the run game, although he still of course had the feet.  

I'm not at all trying to discredit Tom or what he might become.  But I'm kinda wondering whether, with two more years of body-building already behind him at a power-conference weightroom, whether he might more-or-less already be near his optimal physique, and whether optimal Tom might always be limited by the same strength/size/power constraints that limited the rookie-version of Bakhti?  

Rookie Bakh desperately needed to rob a Home Depot for some sand in his pants. Anyone with a decent bull rush ate his lunch straight out the pail. 

[HyponGrey]

On 5/2/2022 at 11:36 AM, PossibleCabbage said:

He's definitely a better option for backup center that Jake Hanson and probably Lucas Patrick.

Reminds me a bit of Tretter. 

[pgwingman]

10 hours ago, HyponGrey said:

Rookie Bakh desperately needed to rob a Home Depot for some sand in his pants. Anyone with a decent bull rush ate his lunch straight out the pail. 

Liked this post just for using two football scouting euphemisms in one post

[craig]

I hope I'm way underselling Tom.  But to me the 23-age thing, in conjunction with lacking present strength, suggests that he's always going to be an undersized, underpowered guy at positions LT, LG, RG, RT.  Which leads to the following speculations (of course, what do I know?)

1. Center is the position where I see him having a high, relatively unlimited ceiling.  His size/strength isn't sub-par for a center, and his athleticism, feet, balance, RAS, and smarts all could serve him well there.  *IF* he someday becomes a multi-year asset starter, I think center is the spot.  
2. For LT, RT, LG, and RG, my take is that he does now and will continue in future to probably lack the anchor and power to be an asset starter.  Technique, quick feet, balance, brains, all of those can variably offset a deficiency.  But it's hard to be an above-average starter while always working around a power/anchor deficiency.  Thus I think it's unlikely that he'll be one of the top-dozen starters at any of those four positions?  I hope I'm wrong.
3. I believe he could become an invaluable utility guy.  Being excellent at center, and variably average or close at LT/RT/LG/RG would be invaluable.  Nobody expects next-man-up to be an above-average-relative-to-starters guy.  So *if* Tom can be really good at center, and variably average at several or all of the other four positions, that will be  REALLY valuable.  
4. But Dude, can't he get bigger and stronger?  Don't draftees improve their physiques all the time?  I imagine he can, to some degree; but I'm not sure how much.  He's 23, not 21, so many of his best strength-optimization years are behind him.  Plus he's already had good body-optimization opportunities for much of his life: 5-years of top-end resources at a Power Conference school; as a professor's son he probably had access to good gyms in high school; with an NFL brother, I also imagine he had info to top-end body-optimization ideas.  So I hypothesize that he's closer to being bodily optimized than most draftees.  
5. I also admit some hesitation that forcing on significant additional weight might have limited value?  Easier to add 15 pound on top than in the legs and anchor, which can sometimes come at the expense of the mobility, quickness, balance, and pad-level that make him so appealing right now.  There is some risk that he doesn't really have the frame to add a bunch more, without undoing his present RAS.  

But obviously what do I know?  Perhaps soon enough he'll be stoning bull-rushers at tackle, or pushing d-linemen around at guard, and he'll be an asset starter for a couple of contracts!

 

Edited May 6, 2022 by craig

[JordanLoveFTW]

Jon Eric Sullivan, Packer front office member, compared him to Billy Turner. 
 

I like Rhyan better. The size and athleticism there is something to work with there. If he plays tackle, he has the look of Mark Tauscher. If he plays guard, has the look of Josh Sitton. 

[Norm]

Jon Eric reminds me of this guy I call Carl Glenn who's in the bar every day because my old lady swore his name was Carl, his name is Glenn. He is now forever Carl Glenn to me.

Edited May 6, 2022 by Norm

[Packerraymond]

1 minute ago, Norm said:

Jon Eric reminds me of this guy I call Carl Glenn who's in the bar every day because my old lady swore his name was Carl, his name is Glenn. He is now forever Carl Glenn to me.

I'd like to make a thread called "Stories from Norm's Bar." As you can guess from the name, it would be a thread where you would just post stories, from the bar.

[Norm]

3 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

I'd like to make a thread called "Stories from Norm's Bar." As you can guess from the name, it would be a thread where you would just post stories, from the bar.

Not so much anymore. It's become a meth head haven so I'm not there near as much. Just like 5 dudes that move around like marionettes being controlled by a drunk all time. Not my favorite drinking environment.

******* meth...

[Refugee]

21 hours ago, Norm said:

Not so much anymore. It's become a meth head haven so I'm not there near as much. Just like 5 dudes that move around like marionettes being controlled by a drunk all time. Not my favorite drinking environment.

******* meth...

Yeah meth heads don’t make the for most comfortable drinking buddies. I recall you don’t live in the biggest of cities, but is that the only bar in town?  Seems like you find another spot to blow off some steam in a tweeker free environment.

[Norm]

59 minutes ago, Refugee said:

Yeah meth heads don’t make the for most comfortable drinking buddies. I recall you don’t live in the biggest of cities, but is that the only bar in town?  Seems like you find another spot to blow off some steam in a tweeker free environment.

Yeah, there used to be two but there's only one now. 

There's talk they're going to ask a couple of them to politely never return but the city actually owns the damn thing and it makes it harder for them to do that I guess

[Refugee]

11 minutes ago, Norm said:

Yeah, there used to be two but there's only one now. 

There's talk they're going to ask a couple of them to politely never return but the city actually owns the damn thing and it makes it harder for them to do that I guess

Fuuuuuu.....  Yeah, that’s a bit of a pickle, or a business opportunity. Like, yeah we only have a few options on beer and one big screen, but no methheads, so belly up!

Hope it gets resolved. I live in a city with no shortage of zombies. Years ago, I order a nice double whiskey while I was playing a game of pool. Took one sip and started racking everything up.  Had this dope fiend guy slam my drink and run out of the bar. I thought about chasing him down but it really wasn’t worth it. The bartender was cool and poured me another but wtf?  

Anyway, I have friends who have fallen to substance abuse and have a heart for people suffering with it. I also don’t trust them at all and that means I don’t want them in an environment I’m supposed to be relaxing and putting my troubles aside for a while. 
 

*Also, I watched the Zach Tom interview. He seems like a sharp guy.  I hope he can keep his mass up for the pro game but he’s definitely got great feet and seems like he’ll be a quick study. There wil be some interesting battles there between the new guys, the young guys and the open spots until Jenkins is back. 

Edited May 7, 2022 by Refugee