The 2023 Draft Thread - We're picking #7

[Bitty 2.0]

19 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

People need to stop having this mind set and being so close minded. The NFL is so different compared to 5 years ago. AR just needs a year of development and perfect scheme for his traits. It would be so hard to fail on the NFL with his skillset and traits. 5+ years ago, sure, easy to fail. But all the rule changes heavily favor offense and electric QB’s now. Look at Hurts.. he has improved mechanically since his rookie year, but his mechanics and throwing motion are still a bit of a mess. He has a perfect system for his traits though. 5 years ago Hurts is a bust, but the NFL landscape has changed dramatically. 

The truth is you have no idea if he can even throw the ball the right way. He has to change his foot work, throwing motion how he holds the ball before even getting to learn to run a pro offense.

[BayRaider]

1 minute ago, Bitty 2.0 said:

The truth is you have no idea if he can even throw the ball the right way. He has to change his foot work, throwing motion how he holds the ball before even getting to learn to run a pro offense.

Hurts still doesn’t throw the fully correct way. I’m not concerned about AR15’s throwing motion, most scouts say it’s already decent enough. His footwork is the big obstacle. 

[jimkelly02]

18 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

Well, I wouldn't move to 3 to select him because of what the cost will be. If you put a gun to my head, a 2nd this year and a pick swap next year (our 2nd for their 3rd). And even that, I'd feel gross about it.

What gets me is this Richardson was a mid to late 1st, maybe even a early 2nd round prospect until he did the combine and private workouts.  Sure he impressed in shorts but nothing changed about who he was as a player.  His speed from during the season is his speed at workouts.  His arm strength is the same now as it was then.  He’s the same exact player that was deemed a high upside, high risk today as he was in-season.  
The only thing that changed was people are now able to better quantify his size and athleticism, he got them excited with his workouts, and now they’re going back and looking at the tape and finding plays/reasons that some of the less than amazing performances weren’t his fault (bad WRs).  But all of the risk that was there 2+ months ago is still there today.  

Theres no way I’d trade 2 1sts and maybe more to move up and draft this guy.  He is not the type of QB that will be on Mahomes’ level.  we have lots of holes throughout this team that need to be filled.  

[MrOaktown_56]

14 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

I just don’t see how you can retain the majority of the team, add 5 core players at positions of need, get worse, and it’s a best case scenario. The only way that even seems feasible is if Jimmy goes down early in the year and then you’re stuck paying him in 2024

If I were a betting man, this would be it

[MrOaktown_56]

Just now, jimkelly02 said:

What gets me is this Richardson was a mid to late 1st, maybe even a early 2nd round prospect until he did the combine and private workouts.  Sure he impressed in shorts but nothing changed about who he was as a player.  His speed from during the season is his speed at workouts.  His arm strength is the same now as it was then.  He’s the same exact player that was deemed a high upside, high risk today as he was in-season.  
The only thing that changed was people are now able to better quantify his size and athleticism, he got them excited with his workouts, and now they’re going back and looking at the tape and finding plays/reasons that some of the less than amazing performances weren’t his fault (bad WRs).  But all of the risk that was there 2+ months ago is still there today.  

Theres no way I’d trade 2 1sts and maybe more to move up and draft this guy.  He is not the type of QB that will be on Mahomes’ level.  we have lots of holes throughout this team that need to be filled.  

I agree. I'm not saying we don't need to address qb. But forcing it is not the answer either.

[NYRaider]

4 minutes ago, Bitty 2.0 said:

The truth is you have no idea if he can even throw the ball the right way. He has to change his foot work, throwing motion how he holds the ball before even getting to learn to run a pro offense.

Isn’t that why you hired offensive / QB guru Josh McDaniels? He spent over a decade with the GOAT, I’m sure he could teach him a thing or two. 

[NYRaider]

3 minutes ago, jimkelly02 said:

What gets me is this Richardson was a mid to late 1st, maybe even a early 2nd round prospect until he did the combine and private workouts.  Sure he impressed in shorts but nothing changed about who he was as a player.  His speed from during the season is his speed at workouts.  His arm strength is the same now as it was then.  He’s the same exact player that was deemed a high upside, high risk today as he was in-season.  
The only thing that changed was people are now able to better quantify his size and athleticism, he got them excited with his workouts, and now they’re going back and looking at the tape and finding plays/reasons that some of the less than amazing performances weren’t his fault (bad WRs).  But all of the risk that was there 2+ months ago is still there today.  

Theres no way I’d trade 2 1sts and maybe more to move up and draft this guy.  He is not the type of QB that will be on Mahomes’ level.  we have lots of holes throughout this team that need to be filled.  

He reportedly did amazing during his interviews too which drove his stock up.

[jimkelly02]

31 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

People need to stop having this mind set and being so close minded. The NFL is so different compared to 5 years ago. AR just needs a year of development and perfect scheme for his traits. It would be so hard to fail on the NFL with his skillset and traits. 5+ years ago, sure, easy to fail. But all the rule changes heavily favor offense and electric QB’s now. Look at Hurts.. he has improved mechanically since his rookie year, but his mechanics and throwing motion are still a bit of a mess. He has a perfect system for his traits though. 5 years ago Hurts is a bust, but the NFL landscape has changed dramatically. 

Your notorious for only seeing the good in QBs.  For example, You made every excuse in the book for Jordan Love’s interceptions and claimed he was a starter by end of year 1.  

How can you say it’d be so hard for Richardson to fail with such confidence?  The guy has major concerns as a passer.         His decision making and ability to read defenses is lacking.  He needs to have his footwork and mechanics severely tuned up.  And most importantly he’s not a consistent, accurate passer.  Accuracy is one of the most important traits of a successful QB. Those concerns don’t exist because his critics are old farts who aren’t with the times, their age old concerns that have consistently predicted QB success for decades.

[NYRaider]

5 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

If I were a betting man, this would be it

And what I’d he doesn’t get hurt, you win 7-8 games, and are picking 13-15 next year? You end up in the same spot you’ve been with Carr for a decade. Paying a middle of the pack QB that ensures you’re not good enough to contend but not bad enough to secure a franchise QB. 

I just don’t see any realistic path to contention for the foreseeable future that doesn’t involve a superstar level QB. Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, Herbert, and Lawrence are just getting started. 

[jimkelly02]

6 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

He reportedly did amazing during his interviews too which drove his stock up.

I’m sure he’s a great guy (seriously).  But the point remains, upside is worthless unless you reach it.  And Richardson is a very risky pick in the top 4, let alone have to pay a ton in draft capital to move up for him.  

[Humble_Beast]

1 minute ago, NYRaider said:

And what I’d he doesn’t get hurt, you win 7-8 games, and are picking 13-15 next year? You end up in the same spot you’ve been with Carr for a decade. Paying a middle of the pack QB that ensures you’re not good enough to contend but not bad enough to secure a franchise QB. 

I just don’t see any realistic path to contention for the foreseeable future that doesn’t involve a superstar level QB. Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, Herbert, and Lawrence are just getting started. 

could get by with an average QB if you have a great defense. our defenses is utter trash.lol. We need a superstar QB to stand a chance 

[NYRaider]

1 minute ago, jimkelly02 said:

Your notorious for only seeing the good in QBs.  For example, You made every excuse in the book for Jordan Love’s interceptions and claimed he was a starter by end of year 1.  

How can you say it’d be so hard for Richardson to fail with such confidence?  The guy has major concerns as a passer.         His decision making and ability to read defenses is lacking.  He needs to have his footwork and mechanics severely tuned up.  And most importantly he’s not a consistent, accurate passer.  Accuracy is one of the most important traits of a successful QB. Those concerns don’t exist because his critics are old farts who aren’t with the times, their age old concerns that have consistently predicted QB success for decades.

The thing with Richardson though is that even if he has his struggles as a passer early on, he’ll probably be the best running QB in the league from day one and D worst a top 3-4 running QB. Look at how the Bills used Josh Allen early in his career. Lamar won MVP while only putting up 3200 passing yards. Hurts just led a team to the Super Bowl and didn’t crack 4k passing…

[MrOaktown_56]

12 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

And what I’d he doesn’t get hurt, you win 7-8 games, and are picking 13-15 next year? You end up in the same spot you’ve been with Carr for a decade. Paying a middle of the pack QB that ensures you’re not good enough to contend but not bad enough to secure a franchise QB. 

I just don’t see any realistic path to contention for the foreseeable future that doesn’t involve a superstar level QB. Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, Herbert, and Lawrence are just getting started. 

Also this is Ziegler/JMD's fault, not mine LOL. If we moved on from Carr, I wanted to either get Rodgers or roll with Stidham to tank.

[jimkelly02]

1 minute ago, NYRaider said:

The thing with Richardson though is that even if he has his struggles as a passer early on, he’ll probably be the best running QB in the league from day one and D worst a top 3-4 running QB. Look at how the Bills used Josh Allen early in his career. Lamar won MVP while only putting up 3200 passing yards. Hurts just led a team to the Super Bowl and didn’t crack 4k passing…

I’m not concerned with Richardson struggling as a passer early on, that’s a near given.  He’s going to need time to get there.  Sure he’s got size but I’d hate to run him heavily and risk injury and wear and tear.  Lamar’s in his contract situation partly because he can’t stay healthy and that’s going to impact his longterm success.

I think you use Richardson’s running only situationally.  Early in his career, When the pass breaks down let him run early, use him as a runner or Run pass option in the red zone, etc.  but I don’t think you want to run him half of what they did with Lamar/Hurts.  Your not trying to make him a pure pocket passer, but you want to preserve his body as much as you can.  If he’s banged up how can he progress as a passer?

[jimkelly02]

2 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

Also this is Ziegler/JMD's fault, not mine LOL. If we moved on from Carr, I wanted to either get Rodgers or roll with Stidham to tank.

100%.  They went with Jimmy G though because they felt the pressure (or McD at least did) and he was there best option to improve enough to stay alive.