Cavaliers Thread: We Somehow Both Don't and Do Suck

[sdrawkcab321]

Just now, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Stop being a hater, even his mom thinks he’s the finest young man in the world.

I hear from his former coaches that he’s one of the first in the gym and last to leave too. 

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

Just now, sdrawkcab321 said:

I hear from his former coaches that he’s one of the first in the gym and last to leave too. 

A real leader in the locker room? 

[Bonanza23]

Just now, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

A real leader in the locker room? 

He’s like a coach on the court. 

[Mind Character]

3 minutes ago, sdrawkcab321 said:

Are you seriously going to base your opinion off of the comments from coaches? That’s about the worse source you can site. Of course they’re going to be complimentary. coaches never say anything negative about a former player it would hurt recruiting. Come on now be smart about this. 

All information is information. Rumor mill negatives about Reddish are information. Coaches opinions on him are information. All should be skeptical about information on things they don't have direct experience with. I'm a skeptic. The information you've heard about Reddish is information susceptible to rumor mill distortion as well.

What I looked at wasn't just the words of coaches, but long/deep pieces about Reddish' upbringing, his motivation, his weaknesses, his struggles in development, the root of his play issues. His High School and AAU coaches were very candid in a lot of the articles and comments about Cam as a youthful player giving specific details of the source of things related to Cam.

There is coaches speak and then there's more thoughtful coaching analysis of a past player they've coached. What I've read has been the latter. And I'm still skeptical. 

Ultimately, those discarding Reddish outright because rumor mill scuttlebutt and labels that often stick to players despite being untrue aren't skeptical of the general rumors they're hearing.

Some of the backstory and depth of analysis his past and current coaches have spoken of aren't likely to be distortions of the truth.

[Bonanza23]

A dark horse candidate to keep an eye on at 5 is Goga Bitadze. Big man with some game. 

[BrownsDog23]

Would anyone be willing to trade 5 for Lonzo? I honestly dont know what to make of his upside but I can’t think of a player better suited to pair with Sexton in the backcourt. 

[sdrawkcab321]

45 minutes ago, BrownsDog23 said:

Would anyone be willing to trade 5 for Lonzo? I honestly dont know what to make of his upside but I can’t think of a player better suited to pair with Sexton in the backcourt. 

I’d be very interested. His dad has seemed to back off lately. His passing and defense are elite for his age. And his size would be ideal for us to play Sexton at 2 on offense and guard 1s on defense since Sexton doesn’t have the size to guard bigger guards and ball can guard 1-3. 

[AkronsWitness]

4 hours ago, sdrawkcab321 said:

Reddish just needs the ball too much to be effective. We seen what happens when he doesn’t dominate the ball at duke he looks lost. What’s he going to do on a team with Collin Sexton who doesn’t acknowledge the existence of the other 4 players on the floor? Same goes with clarkson if we keep him around. Or nance who for whatever reason thinks he’s a point center. 

Reddish shot 35% (!!!!!!) from the field in college. 35%! Hard pass. That would rank him outside of the top 150 players in the NBA at that FG% despite him being 6'9". I tried to pull up on ESPN and NBA.com the list of players who shot 35% last year and literally no results come up, the list ends at players who shot 37%

This pick (should be if Gilbert isnt the moron I think he is) is between Culver/Hunter. Anybody other than one of those two I will take as a reach and a overthinking it pick.

 

Edited May 16, 2019 by AkronsWitness

[BrownsDog23]

39 minutes ago, AkronsWitness said:

Reddish shot 35% (!!!!!!) from the field in college. 35%! Hard pass. That would rank him outside of the top 150 players in the NBA at that FG% despite him being 6'9". I tried to pull up on ESPN and NBA.com the list of players who shot 35% last year and literally no results come up, the list ends at players who shot 37%

This pick (should be if Gilbert isnt the moron I think he is) is between Culver/Hunter. Anybody other than one of those two I will take as a reach and a overthinking it pick.

I Reddish was in a awkward position last season, he went from being a #1 option for the better part of his basketball life to being the 3rd option on a team that played sorta similar to the Lebron/Kyrie Cavs teams where the two stars play iso while everyone else just sorta stands around, remember K Love struggled in a similar situation and add in Reddish’s poor shot selection and you get 35%. 

Again id be fine with the other two but Reddish has the most upside and a higher floor than some are giving him credit for, no way he out of the league in a couple of years.

[AkronsWitness]

1 minute ago, BrownsDog23 said:

I Reddish was in a awkward position last season, he went from being a #1 option for the better part of his basketball life to being the 3rd option on a team that played sorta similar to the Lebron/Kyrie Cavs teams where the two stars play iso while everyone else just sorta stands around, remember K Love struggled in a similar situation and add in Reddish’s poor shot selection and you get 35%. 

Again id be fine with the other two but Reddish has the most upside and a higher floor than some are giving him credit for, no way he out of the league in a couple of years.

We shall see but Culver/Hunter each dont have nearly the ??? that Reddish have, so why take the chance when you dont have to because one of, if not both, of either Culver/Hunter will be there. Its a risk you dont have take so why take it

[Mind Character]

1 hour ago, AkronsWitness said:

Reddish shot 35% (!!!!!!) from the field in college. 35%! Hard pass. That would rank him outside of the top 150 players in the NBA at that FG% despite him being 6'9". I tried to pull up on ESPN and NBA.com the list of players who shot 35% last year and literally no results come up, the list ends at players who shot 37%

This pick (should be if Gilbert isnt the moron I think he is) is between Culver/Hunter. Anybody other than one of those two I will take as a reach and a overthinking it pick. @BrownsDog23

 

You can't just boxscore scout especially in basketball when effective field goal percentage and other breakdown of shot making is available that factor in the type of shot taken and the below average, average, above average, and expected conversion rate on such similar shots given the database of all players.

This is important for high volume 3-point shooters whose 3pt FGAs make an outsized amount of their total FGAs. Reddish role was as a 3pt spacer on that team allowing for RJ Barrett to dribble drive via isolation or pass chain quick actions or isos for Zion.

Without getting into the analytics, just take a look at the fact that Reddish took 12 FGAs a game on average. Of that 12, he took 7.5 - 3pt shots a game. That's a more difficult shot percentage wise. He then took 4.6 2pt shots making 1.8 of them for around 40% for his 2pt shooting percentage; however, analytics show that the 2pt shots he attempted were not of the high percentage to be made variety at the basket, in the  paint, or even midrange but instead he has an outsized amount of 2pt shot attempts that were in effect one or 2 step in from the 3pt line... shots that analytics driven approaches hate b/c if you're going to shoot that low percentage shot you might as well shoot a 3 pointer.

Interestingly, Reddish has one of the highest FGPs in clutch moments and in the 4th QTR.

It's okay to not like Reddish as a prospect, but citing his FG% without framing it against the backdrop of actual play context distorts things a bit.

 

Edited May 17, 2019 by Mind Character

[AkronsWitness]

16 minutes ago, Mind Character said:

You can't just boxscore scout especially in basketball when effective field goal percentage and other breakdown of shot making is available that factor in the type of shot taken and the below average, average, above average, and expected conversion rate on such similar shots given the database of all players.

This is important for high volume 3-point shooters whose 3pt FGAs make an outsized amount of their total FGAs. Reddish role was as a 3pt spacer on that team allowing for RJ Barrett to dribble drive via isolation or pass chain quick actions or isos for Zion.

Without getting into the analytics, just take a look at the fact that Reddish took 12 FGAs a game on average. Of that 12, he took 7.5 - 3pt shots a game. That's a more difficult shot percentage wise. He then took 4.6 2pt shots making 1.8 of them for around 40% for his 2pt shooting percentage; however, analytics show that the 2pt shots he attempted were not of the high percentage to be made variety at the basket, in the  paint, or even midrange but instead he has an outsized amount of 2pt shot attempts that were in effect one or 2 step in from the 3pt line... shots that analytics driven approaches hate b/c if you're going to shoot that low percentage shot you might as well shoot a 3 pointer.

Interestingly, Reddish has one of the highest FGPs in clutch moments and in the 4th QTR.

It's okay to not like Reddish as a prospect, but citing his FG% without framing it against the backdrop of actual play context distorts things a bit.

 

I can boxscore scout when the player mentioned shot a FG% that would have to have the entire NBA open up a new category of bad for him.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

37 minutes ago, Mind Character said:

You can't just boxscore scout especially in basketball when effective field goal percentage and other breakdown of shot making is available that factor in the type of shot taken and the below average, average, above average, and expected conversion rate on such similar shots given the database of all players.

This is important for high volume 3-point shooters whose 3pt FGAs make an outsized amount of their total FGAs. Reddish role was as a 3pt spacer on that team allowing for RJ Barrett to dribble drive via isolation or pass chain quick actions or isos for Zion.

Without getting into the analytics, just take a look at the fact that Reddish took 12 FGAs a game on average. Of that 12, he took 7.5 - 3pt shots a game. That's a more difficult shot percentage wise. He then took 4.6 2pt shots making 1.8 of them for around 40% for his 2pt shooting percentage; however, analytics show that the 2pt shots he attempted were not of the high percentage to be made variety at the basket, in the  paint, or even midrange but instead he has an outsized amount of 2pt shot attempts that were in effect one or 2 step in from the 3pt line... shots that analytics driven approaches hate b/c if you're going to shoot that low percentage shot you might as well shoot a 3 pointer.

Interestingly, Reddish has one of the highest FGPs in clutch moments and in the 4th QTR.

It's okay to not like Reddish as a prospect, but citing his FG% without framing it against the backdrop of actual play context distorts things a bit.

 

Eh, you can boxscore scout a bit.

The numbers don’t tell the whole story, but they telling a complete lie either.

[candyman93]

Some good news on Culver, he’s 6’6 and he’s closer to 6’7. That’s perfect for a 2 guard and he can slide to SF if needed.

[AkronsWitness]

10 minutes ago, candyman93 said:

Some good news on Culver, he’s 6’6 and he’s closer to 6’7. That’s perfect for a 2 guard and he can slide to SF if needed.

And hes only growing still. He just turned 20. I would say by the time he is 23-25 years old he will be 6'8". Hes a massive SG 

Edited May 17, 2019 by AkronsWitness