sdrawkcab321 Posted July 2, 2023 Share Posted July 2, 2023 3 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: Well I’m pretty sure that’s why we went and signed the guys we did. Im just saying it’s not as if he’s a finished product who can’t improve. He has improved slowly and is still young af. He’s not really that young anymore.. he’s 22. That’s not young in the nba. He’s about to be eligible for an extension soon. He could be out of the league if he doesn’t become a good 3 point shooter this year. There’s way too many guys who come into the league every year with his skill set plus the ability to shoot. He’s could become another Andre Roberson or MKG soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BetterCallSaul Posted July 2, 2023 Share Posted July 2, 2023 Okoro is far and away the best defender on the team. He would be awesome in transition if we didn’t insist on playing in the half court. He is improving. He is young, despite people wanting to crucify a 22 year old. Okoro is fine & will probably start for us again to provide some semblance of perimeter defense to the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roger murdock Posted July 2, 2023 Share Posted July 2, 2023 15 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: Well I’m pretty sure that’s why we went and signed the guys we did. Im just saying it’s not as if he’s a finished product who can’t improve. He has improved slowly and is still young af. I hope you are right. Ive just seen him get so many minutes and show such little improvement over 3 years. He lacks confidence, hes so far gone as a ball handler, his shot isnt smooth at all. He just seems like an athlete first, second, and third, and a basketball player fourth. Nothing seems natural for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roger murdock Posted July 2, 2023 Share Posted July 2, 2023 5 minutes ago, BetterCallSaul said: Okoro is far and away the best defender on the team. He would be awesome in transition if we didn’t insist on playing in the half court. He is improving. He is young, despite people wanting to crucify a 22 year old. Okoro is fine & will probably start for us again to provide some semblance of perimeter defense to the team. Okoro's defense is overrated because his offense sucks so much we pretend hes some lockdown guy. Hes a good 1v1 perimeter defender but never gets any blocks, steals, or rebounds. He just plays really smart and disciplined defense without fouling. Its hard to do and its valuable but hes probably never going to be an all defense level player. I'd love to hear how hes far and away a better defensive player than Evan Mobley, who is genuinely special. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BetterCallSaul Posted July 2, 2023 Share Posted July 2, 2023 (edited) 3 minutes ago, roger murdock said: Okoro's defense is overrated because his offense sucks so much we pretend hes some lockdown guy. Hes a good 1v1 perimeter defender but never gets any blocks, steals, or rebounds. He just plays really smart and disciplined defense without fouling. Its hard to do and its valuable but hes probably never going to be an all defense level player. Who gives a F about blocks and steals? Thats like complaining that Myles Garrett gets sacks, but doesn’t hit the QB hard enough when he does. If he forces tough shots and wears out opposing players, why is that worse than getting blocks and steals? It seems like you just hate Okoro and are unwilling to pretend he is a useful piece for this team. And who said he was better than Mobley? He’s our best perimeter defender, not best overall defender. Edited July 2, 2023 by BetterCallSaul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roger murdock Posted July 2, 2023 Share Posted July 2, 2023 1 minute ago, BetterCallSaul said: Who gives a F about blocks and steals? Thats like complaining that Myles Garrett gets sacks, but doesn’t hit the QB hard enough when he does. If he forces tough shots and wears out opposing players, why is that worse than getting blocks and steals? It seems like you just hate Okoro and are unwilling to pretend he is a useful piece for this team. i dont hate Okoro. I just think hes the 5th best player on our side everytime he steps on the court. I like him as a person but I dont see him as a good basketball player, I dont see him as someone who's improved much despite playing tons of minutes over 3 years and having a long leash, and I dont see him as someone with high upside. Blocks and Steals are the most valuable things you can do on defense because it garuntees the other team didnt score and usually (especially with steals) creates extremely high value offensive possessions. Almost all good defensive players get them (except Okoro). I love Okoro as a person I just think he has such little talent and a contending team should be looking to improve on their worst rotation players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted July 2, 2023 Author Share Posted July 2, 2023 11 minutes ago, roger murdock said: I hope you are right. Ive just seen him get so many minutes and show such little improvement over 3 years. He lacks confidence, hes so far gone as a ball handler, his shot isnt smooth at all. He just seems like an athlete first, second, and third, and a basketball player fourth. Nothing seems natural for him. He’s definitely been thrust into a role he shouldn’t have been. He’s not a starter at all, he’s an 8th-9th man. 22 minutes ago, sdrawkcab321 said: He’s not really that young anymore.. he’s 22. That’s not young in the nba. uhhh, yeah it is. 😂 22 minutes ago, sdrawkcab321 said: He’s about to be eligible for an extension soon. He could be out of the league if he doesn’t become a good 3 point shooter this year. There’s way too many guys who come into the league every year with his skill set plus the ability to shoot. He’s could become another Andre Roberson or MKG soon. Yeah, maybe. Or he just keeps developing while playing a reduced role and in 5 years when he’s Niang’s age maybe he’s able to get a similar contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candyman93 Posted July 2, 2023 Share Posted July 2, 2023 3 hours ago, roger murdock said: This is an insane take. Mobley is a great passer. Allen cant make outlet passes but is pretty decent in half court (only attempts simple passes but makes quick reads). Mobley is a top tier passing big. The issue is we have an uncreative coach who doesnt know how to use him. We need high post plays and to use Garland and Mitchell more off ball. Adebayo would be a 2 assist/game center on this team. JB sucks At no point in Allen’s career has he averaged over 2 assists a game. I have hope for Mobley due to his age. JB does suck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdrawkcab321 Posted July 2, 2023 Share Posted July 2, 2023 On 7/1/2023 at 4:14 PM, candyman93 said: I don’t want to ever hear Jarrett Allen being mentioned as a top 10 center again. When you have absolutely ZERO heart and let yourself get raw dogged like JA did, there’s no fixing that. I don’t care how athletic or skilled you are. If you don’t have the heart, you’ll never fix that. Remember “Lebronto” that was because those Raptors teams punked out whenever they saw Lebron. That was never going to be fixed. I think you’re being too hard on Allen. Yeah he has his flaws. He’s soft. But he’s still a very good defender. We had one of the best defenses in the league last year and that was entirely because of Allen and Mobley. He sucked in the playoffs but so do a lot of players. We need someone to play center in the regular season to take the load off Mobley who can’t hold up. We can’t just throw him out and bring in some average forward. Decent centers in the league are so hard to find. And he’s one of the rare ones who’s not a complete stiff outside the paint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roger murdock Posted July 3, 2023 Share Posted July 3, 2023 1 hour ago, sdrawkcab321 said: I think you’re being too hard on Allen. Yeah he has his flaws. He’s soft. But he’s still a very good defender. We had one of the best defenses in the league last year and that was entirely because of Allen and Mobley. He sucked in the playoffs but so do a lot of players. We need someone to play center in the regular season to take the load off Mobley who can’t hold up. We can’t just throw him out and bring in some average forward. Decent centers in the league are so hard to find. And he’s one of the rare ones who’s not a complete stiff outside the paint. this right here. The reason we got dominated so hard on the offensive glass vs the Knicks is because JB Bickerstaff is a ******* idiot. The Knicks were a bottom 5 team in 3pt % and 2pt % but had a good offense due to O-Rebs, low turnover rates, and high FT rates. You beat teams like that by not chasing, focusing on blocking out, and securing rebounds. Unfortunately we were a defense that rotates fast + contests tons of shots, and it worked all regular season, and JB is too stupid to make adjustments. So vs the Knicks we have Allen and Mobley chasing and moving far away from the rim to contest shots that wouldnt have gone in anyway allowing them to crash the glass hard. We didnt adapt and let this happen 5 games in a row. If you watch the tape it wasnt even so much Allen getting out muscled as it was Allen wasnt in position to get the rebound at all. It was like Thibs was coaching both teams and drew up a scheme to make us lose on purpose. JB is an idiot. Great motivator, great culture builder. If I was a 19 win team Id love him to deveop young guys. But for matchups in the playoffs there are at leave 25 better coaches in the NBA right now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FGK Posted July 3, 2023 Share Posted July 3, 2023 Gotta agree with Murdock, the more I think about that series the more it seems like JB had a grand total of one adjustment in him (game 2) and was just completely stumped outside of that. I'm honestly shocked they didn't at least pursue Monty Williams or Nick Nurse. I really like the Ford/Jones signing/trade. Both very reasonable contracts for guys who have experience being role players on championship teams while still being young enough to conceivably continue developing and growing as players. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candyman93 Posted July 3, 2023 Share Posted July 3, 2023 2 minutes ago, FGK said: Gotta agree with Murdock, the more I think about that series the more it seems like JB had a grand total of one adjustment in him (game 2) and was just completely stumped outside of that. I'm honestly shocked they didn't at least pursue Monty Williams or Nick Nurse. I really like the Ford/Jones signing/trade. Both very reasonable contracts for guys who have experience being role players on championship teams while still being young enough to conceivably continue developing and growing as players. Just get Budenholzer next year. JB is a lame duck to me. Won’t shock me if we start to struggle and we purposefully tank for Bronny just to get his dad. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roger murdock Posted July 3, 2023 Share Posted July 3, 2023 56 minutes ago, candyman93 said: Just get Budenholzer next year. JB is a lame duck to me. Won’t shock me if we start to struggle and we purposefully tank for Bronny just to get his dad. JB is the ultimate lame duck. I think we need to get a 1 seed to feel good about winning a playoff series. We need a major talent advantage to offset the coaching disadvantage we will face. 1v8 I feel confident, 2v7 seed we should be favored slightly, 3v6 I'd pick the other teams to win. Theres no path for JB to improve because hes shown no promise strategically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigben07MVP Posted July 3, 2023 Share Posted July 3, 2023 On 7/2/2023 at 11:29 AM, BetterCallSaul said: And who said he was better than Mobley? He’s our best perimeter defender, not best overall defender. It was literally you who said this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BetterCallSaul Posted July 3, 2023 Share Posted July 3, 2023 22 minutes ago, bigben07MVP said: It was literally you who said this. Yep you're right. I meant to say perimeter. Crow eaten. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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