bigben07MVP Posted August 1, 2022 Share Posted August 1, 2022 Sounds like DMJ is having a great start to camp. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chieferific Posted August 1, 2022 Share Posted August 1, 2022 1 hour ago, Dcash4 said: Ben Roethlisberger's YPA was more than a yard lower than his career averages (tied for 30th in the NFL with Sam Darnold) and his YPC was more than 2 yards below his career (32nd in 2021). We had the 27th ranked passing game by NY/A which was also worse than the year before. It's pretty easy to know why those numbers are lower. Even going up 1 yard would have DJ as the lowest member of that group. Everyone knows this offense changes and what it meant for receivers when you had the shortest passing game and quickest trigger. Everyone that is on this list would have worse per numbers if they played with Zombie Ben. In terms of consistency, he has a higher Rec% of 3 of the guys on the list and ties a 4th -- all who just got paid this year. How much do you think it lowers his value? Even if he is the least expensive of this group, you are still talking a $20M player. Meh. I'm sure other WRs on that list had variables that could have effected their play too. Some may have had no Run game to help loosen up defenses. Some may have had bad OL play. Some may not have had a solid #2 WR beside them to draw coverage. Some actually had bad QB play too and still preformed better. The "excuses" are numerous. But the stat sheet is the stat sheet. So if you were to use it as a negotiating tool, as management, I'd poke holes right through it. I think the disconnect we're having is you feel he is worth that contract because that is what other "comparable" WRs are getting. Which is true. What I suggest is despite what the market says, his play doesn't warrant the overblown market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August4th Posted August 1, 2022 Share Posted August 1, 2022 word is Boz got a 4 yr extension 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August4th Posted August 1, 2022 Share Posted August 1, 2022 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcash4 Posted August 1, 2022 Author Share Posted August 1, 2022 48 minutes ago, Chieferific said: I think the disconnect we're having is you feel he is worth that contract because that is what other "comparable" WRs are getting. Which is true. What I suggest is despite what the market says But the only thing that matters is what the market says. And his market of comparable players is set. That’s over, done. We know what it is. No matter where you think he ranks within that group doesnt matter because he is easily within the group. Going back to my original comment, whether you or even the Steelers don’t think that’s a good number for him is irrelevant. It’s what his number is on an extension right now based on that market. So going back to my three things: we know his number. So if he is actively engaged in negotiation, fine — keep the hold in while you work through it. But if the Steelers don’t want to meet that number, the only person DJ hurts by not participating is himself. And if he flat out doesn’t want to practice, ship him to someone happy to pay for 3 years over 4. My comment was about how this should speed things up. There’s just not much left to know here. Hopefully he is back to practice - either on extension or knowing he isn’t getting it - or traded soon so it doesn’t keep going deeper into the off-season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chieferific Posted August 1, 2022 Share Posted August 1, 2022 1 minute ago, Dcash4 said: But the only thing that matters is what the market says. And his market of comparable players is set. That’s over, done. We know what it is. No matter where you think he ranks within that group doesnt matter because he is easily within the group. Going back to my original comment, whether you or even the Steelers don’t think that’s a good number for him is irrelevant. It’s what his number is on an extension right now based on that market. So going back to my three things: we know his number. So if he is actively engaged in negotiation, fine — keep the hold in while you work through it. But if the Steelers don’t want to meet that number, the only person DJ hurts by not participating is himself. And if he flat out doesn’t want to practice, ship him to someone happy to pay for 3 years over 4. My comment was about how this should speed things up. There’s just not much left to know here. Hopefully he is back to practice - either on extension or knowing he isn’t getting it - or traded soon so it doesn’t keep going deeper into the off-season. But teams (especially the Steelers) refuse to follow the market all the time. Do you think the Steelers would have offered Kirk that outlandish Jag contract? Of course not. But if that's what the Jags offered, that's his market value. Just because the market says player is worth 'X" a team may disagree and only offer "Y". So again, just because the market says a player is worth the contract doesn't mean every team agrees. I do completely agree with your "three things" tho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfelg Posted August 1, 2022 Share Posted August 1, 2022 19 minutes ago, Dcash4 said: even the Steelers don’t think that’s a good number for him is irrelevant What the Steelers think is quite relevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfelg Posted August 1, 2022 Share Posted August 1, 2022 1 hour ago, August4th said: From the sounds of it in camp right now there's a HUGE jump from 3rd string to 2nd string and it could be impacting what you see from the QB's. The insight I got was Kenny made a great low pass for a deep comeback and the WR didn't make the effort in one of his picks on Saturday. Same play today and Boykin comes back and makes the play on the ball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chieferific Posted August 1, 2022 Share Posted August 1, 2022 1 minute ago, warfelg said: What the Steelers think is quite relevant. Yes, of course. And the Steelers (more than most teams) refuse to cave to the market and "overpay" for a player. That's not to say they won't for DJ. I'm actually on the fence. I don't think he's worth that contract BUT if you were going to overpay, the time is right with a Rookie QB contract on the books. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfelg Posted August 1, 2022 Share Posted August 1, 2022 3 minutes ago, Chieferific said: Yes, of course. And the Steelers (more than most teams) refuse to cave to the market and "overpay" for a player. That's not to say they won't for DJ. I'm actually on the fence. I don't think he's worth that contract BUT if you were going to overpay, the time is right with a Rookie QB contract on the books. I don't disagree with that but if the Steelers don't think he's worth the money flying around then he won't get it with the Steelers. Rumor is he wants gtd money in multiple years like Watt and Fitzpatrick got and the Steelers won't do that or go over $20mil AAV. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigben07MVP Posted August 1, 2022 Share Posted August 1, 2022 28 minutes ago, warfelg said: From the sounds of it in camp right now there's a HUGE jump from 3rd string to 2nd string and it could be impacting what you see from the QB's. The insight I got was Kenny made a great low pass for a deep comeback and the WR didn't make the effort in one of his picks on Saturday. Same play today and Boykin comes back and makes the play on the ball. To add to that from what I’ve seen, the 3rd string D is miles ahead of the 3rd string O, especially on the d-line. I imagine you have guys like Loudermilk, Leal, Mondeaux, Carlos Davis all rotating on the 3rd string d-line. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcash4 Posted August 1, 2022 Author Share Posted August 1, 2022 43 minutes ago, warfelg said: What the Steelers think is quite relevant. Read the rest to find your context, Bud. 54 minutes ago, Chieferific said: But teams (especially the Steelers) refuse to follow the market all the time. Do you think the Steelers would have offered Kirk that outlandish Jag contract? Of course not. But if that's what the Jags offered, that's his market value. Just because the market says player is worth 'X" a team may disagree and only offer "Y". So again, just because the market says a player is worth the contract doesn't mean every team agrees. I do completely agree with your "three things" tho. I do agree with the “your value is what you can get” part, but there’s also a different of open market Vs the extension. Dudes get 125% of market rate all the time when everyone has a shot at them. From what I read, Kirk was “THE” guy for the Jags to work outta the slot. Rather than haggling and potentially losing him at $15-16M, they put it to bed at $18M. On an extension, it’s usually more by the book — hence all these extensions now ringing in right around the same numbers. But as I mentioned above, the Steelers might not value that number…but that doesn’t mean it’s not his number. Teams don’t have to pay it, but the Steelers also can’t choose they value him at $15M and call him up and reasonably expect a signature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfelg Posted August 1, 2022 Share Posted August 1, 2022 6 minutes ago, Dcash4 said: Read the rest to find your context, Bud. I did and I stand by my point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigben07MVP Posted August 2, 2022 Share Posted August 2, 2022 Justin Jackson please. 5.0 career YPC, adequate receiver as well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcash4 Posted August 2, 2022 Author Share Posted August 2, 2022 59 minutes ago, bigben07MVP said: Justin Jackson please. 5.0 career YPC, adequate receiver as well. Signed with the Lions today, unfortunately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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