2023 draft prospects and college football talk.

[turtle28]

2 hours ago, e16bball said:

Yeah, would be quite a gamble not to add some depth…

This doesn’t really change our depth situation at DE. We still have Obada, JSW, Toohill & WBK. How much depth do you need?

[4209]

On 4/20/2023 at 10:33 AM, turtle28 said:

So, maybe he's a better candidate to be a 3-4 OLB rather than a MLB?

Based on what I ssaw from high school, Alabama and Arkansas yes absolutely. I even think he has the tools to play TE which he played at Denton ryan high. He has the  hieght and agility and yew I amaware he will not play TE in the NFL. Sanders has that kind of agility however he is 6-5" and 230 some pounds are more  you can see he will have some trouble covering RB out of the back field. Normal players this hieght will be some what of a aslow reaction when rb make their cuts. His hieght is not ideal for a middle LB especially vs the run but a QB will have trouble throwing over him in the middle. The kid has alot of versatility man. He just need more seasoning and so ore bulk. 

[e16bball]

27 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

My feeling is that Mayer will be a lot like Gronk while Kincaid has the opportunity to develop into the better route running type TE/better receiving TE overall like Travis Kelce or baby version of Kelce while Mayer lives us to the baby Gronk moniker. They probably won’t reach Hall of Fame status like those 2 but they’ll be lesser but similar versions of those 2.

I definitely called Mayer “baby Gronk” at one point, but that’s a huge comp to make for a kid. As he’s continued to play, and be a little bit stagnant — not that there’s anything wrong with being excellent right out of the gate — I think the comp I would have gone to most readily is Jason Witten. Just so solid in every aspect of the game, but usually without the explosiveness and total physical dominance you had with a guy like Gronk. 

My concern now is that even Witten had a better athletic profile than Mayer does. Bigger and faster (in a slower era). He apparently had some good agility numbers at his pro day, but overall the physical package is sorta “meh.” So while I love his game, where’s the ceiling? Is it lower than I need to take a TE in the first?

In other words, is maybe Heath Miller more the comp than Witten? 

[e16bball]

1 minute ago, turtle28 said:

This doesn’t really change our depth situation at DE. We still have Obada, JSW, Toohill & WBK. How much depth do you need?

It would just be cool if one of them could rush the passer.

We’ve kinda kept telling ourselves “well, we’ve also got Shaka Toney for some pass-rushing juice.” But we haven’t got him anymore. So now all we have for depth are these big-body stiffs who can’t bend the edge in the least.

[turtle28]

Do I have to reiterate once again that I’m glad we ended with Jahan Dotson instead of Jameson Williams?

[4209]

3 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

There is 5 players being suspended and some was gambling at some NFL facilities. Two of the Lions players betted on college games at NFL facility according tp Ian rapport. The NFL said no evidence indicating any inside information was used or that any game was compromies in any way after doing an investigation. WOW makes you wonder how many more NFL palers are participating in this kind of gamble. 

 

[e16bball]

8 minutes ago, 4209 said:

Based on what I ssaw from high school, Alabama and Arkansas yes absolutely. I even think he has the tools to play TE which he played at Denton ryan high. He has the  hieght and agility and yew I amaware he will not play TE in the NFL. Sanders has that kind of agility however he is 6-5" and 230 some pounds are more  you can see he will have some trouble covering RB out of the back field. Normal players this hieght will be some what of a aslow reaction when rb make their cuts. His hieght is not ideal for a middle LB especially vs the run but a QB will have trouble throwing over him in the middle. The kid has alot of versatility man. He just need more seasoning and so ore bulk. 

For me, Sanders just feels a little redundant with Jamin Davis. What he’s going to give you — speed, range to the sideline, some sneaky pass-rushing impact — is pretty similar to what we get out of Jamin. 

To me, we need a guy who is going to do a little more work in the middle of the field and in terms of being the alpha personality that holds all the units/levels of the defense together. I don’t know whether Sanders has that personality, but I do know that he didn’t do a ton of his damage in the form of classic MIKE stuff at either Bama or Arkansas. 

[turtle28]

4 minutes ago, e16bball said:

It would just be cool if one of them could rush the passer.

We’ve kinda kept telling ourselves “well, we’ve also got Shaka Toney for some pass-rushing juice.” But we haven’t got him anymore. So now all we have for depth are these big-body stiffs who can’t bend the edge in the least.

Short of us taking a DE in round 1 or 2 - to just be a back up - which I’m against bc of other needs - I don’t foresee us drafting an impact pass rusher right away in mid to late rounds that is better than any of them. I mean maybe we strike gold, but I doubt it happens for us.

[ARTMONK HOF]

For context, Young posted one of the highest S2 scores in several years. Will Levis (93%), Jake Haener (96%), Jaren Hall (93%), Clayton Tune (84%) and Anthony Richardson (79%) all scored high marks on the S2 test. 

One anonymous NFL executive McGinn spoke with cited Stroud’s S2 score and the fact he played at Ohio State as reasons why he believes the former Buckeyes’ star will be a draft bust. 

“Stroud scored 18. That is like red alert, red alert, you can’t take a guy like that. That is why I have Stroud as a bust. That in conjunction with the fact, name one Ohio State quarterback that’s ever done it in the league.” 

 

The NFL executive’s decision to already label Stroud a bust before he is even drafted is questionable. Teams might rightfully place value into S2 scores, especially considering how well quarterbacks like Joe Burrow, Patrick Mahomes and Josh Allen fared with the tests

However, even the creators of the S2 cognitive test would acknowledge that a high score doesn’t guarantee a quarterback will become a good NFL starter, nor does a low score indicate they will become a bust. 

The NFL executive’s decision to judge Stroud based on the college he played for is also flawed. Justin Fields is an ascending player, but he plays the game completely differently than Stroud and was far less developed as a passer when he entered the league.

 

[e16bball]

11 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

Short of us taking a DE in round 1 or 2 - to just be a back up - which I’m against bc of other needs - I don’t foresee us drafting an impact pass rusher right away in mid to late rounds that is better than any of them. I mean maybe we strike gold, but I doubt it happens for us.

For me, it’s just about changing the looks and having different types of weapons to deploy. Do we really need all 3 depth guys to be big-body, run stuffing, strong-side DE types? Especially when we’re not exactly getting home quite as much as we’d like with the two starters? 

You’re almost certainly not going to get some sort of unblockable pass-rusher at that point. Or even a guy who can play 3 downs at a high level for you. But you really can get guys who are explosive enough to threaten offenses with speed off the edge. James Houston had 8 sacks last year coming out of the 6th round. Guys like Arnold Ebiketie, Drake Jackson, Sam Williams, Joseph Ossai, Kingsley Enagbare, Cameron Thomas, Myjai Sanders, etc, were all consensus Day 2 or 3 picks, and they made an impact for their teams right out of the gate.

You just have to take these guys for what they are, rather than forcing yourself to try to make every draft pick a potential long-term starter or complete player. If they’re insisting on finding a guy who can replace everything Young/Sweat can do, then yeah — it’s a real longshot. But if you’re just looking for a dude who can heat up the pass-rush in subpackages maybe 10 snaps a game, you can find that. And I think they need it.

[lavar703]

I love it. The closer and closer we get the more local media brings up taking Bijan. I’m willing this into existence. 

[turtle28]

1 hour ago, e16bball said:

For me, Sanders just feels a little redundant with Jamin Davis. What he’s going to give you — speed, range to the sideline, some sneaky pass-rushing impact — is pretty similar to what we get out of Jamin. 

To me, we need a guy who is going to do a little more work in the middle of the field and in terms of being the alpha personality that holds all the units/levels of the defense together. I don’t know whether Sanders has that personality, but I do know that he didn’t do a ton of his damage in the form of classic MIKE stuff at either Bama or Arkansas. 

Good point, I hadn’t thought about that. Same can be said of Trenton Simpson. We need a MIKE not an OLB

[turtle28]

1 hour ago, ARTMONK HOF said:

For context, Young posted one of the highest S2 scores in several years. Will Levis (93%), Jake Haener (96%), Jaren Hall (93%), Clayton Tune (84%) and Anthony Richardson (79%) all scored high marks on the S2 test. 

One anonymous NFL executive McGinn spoke with cited Stroud’s S2 score and the fact he played at Ohio State as reasons why he believes the former Buckeyes’ star will be a draft bust. 

“Stroud scored 18. That is like red alert, red alert, you can’t take a guy like that. That is why I have Stroud as a bust. That in conjunction with the fact, name one Ohio State quarterback that’s ever done it in the league.” 

 

The NFL executive’s decision to already label Stroud a bust before he is even drafted is questionable. Teams might rightfully place value into S2 scores, especially considering how well quarterbacks like Joe Burrow, Patrick Mahomes and Josh Allen fared with the tests

However, even the creators of the S2 cognitive test would acknowledge that a high score doesn’t guarantee a quarterback will become a good NFL starter, nor does a low score indicate they will become a bust. 

The NFL executive’s decision to judge Stroud based on the college he played for is also flawed. Justin Fields is an ascending player, but he plays the game completely differently than Stroud and was far less developed as a passer when he entered the league.

 

We’ll see. Can’t really say either way right now, but his tape is great; even better than most of the QBs in the 2021 class.

[turtle28]

36 minutes ago, e16bball said:

For me, it’s just about changing the looks and having different types of weapons to deploy. Do we really need all 3 depth guys to be big-body, run stuffing, strong-side DE types? Especially when we’re not exactly getting home quite as much as we’d like with the two starters? 

You’re almost certainly not going to get some sort of unblockable pass-rusher at that point. Or even a guy who can play 3 downs at a high level for you. But you really can get guys who are explosive enough to threaten offenses with speed off the edge. James Houston had 8 sacks last year coming out of the 6th round. Guys like Arnold Ebiketie, Drake Jackson, Sam Williams, Joseph Ossai, Kingsley Enagbare, Cameron Thomas, Myjai Sanders, etc, were all consensus Day 2 or 3 picks, and they made an impact for their teams right out of the gate.

You just have to take these guys for what they are, rather than forcing yourself to try to make every draft pick a potential long-term starter or complete player. If they’re insisting on finding a guy who can replace everything Young/Sweat can do, then yeah — it’s a real longshot. But if you’re just looking for a dude who can heat up the pass-rush in subpackages maybe 10 snaps a game, you can find that. And I think they need it.

That’s true & we are losing Shaka Toney who was a different type of pass rusher than the rest of the guys we have

[e16bball]

It’s crazy to me that I keep hearing about Hendon Hooker to us.

It’s one thing if I could just chalk it up to a smoke screen to try to lure one of these teams in the 1st that might be looking for a future QB option to move up. But Keim keeps saying they’re not really looking at him in the 1st, moreso at #47. 

Which means we’d be taking a 25-year-old QB coming off a major injury that the rest of the league (and ourselves!) decided to pass on. None of that ever works out. Ever.

Rivera: