The Move to Arlington Heights - Official Thread

[dll2000]

I agree with everyone of these points and experienced them.

 

[StLunatic88]

10 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

I agree with everyone of these points and experienced them.

 

Im mean this is all obviously just all about leverage and politics. It seems like 95% that the new stadium (and larger development) is going to be at Arlington, but they are trying stick the franchise with a dumb tax hike. 

[BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW]

I actually like Soldier Field,  it's a neat place, but the idea of it being the future Bears home died the first time they strapped a hard hat to George for a wander around Arlington.  "Over here we could do hotels, with a little water park so the kids can play indoors in March when dad tours the Bearseum and mom gets mimosa's with her friends after getting a couple little things at the shops on Bear's Boulevard."  

Not that I think they will, but they could pay that full tax bill for all the years Arlington is under construction and still be swimming.  I don't Bluhm will let them **** this one up at this point.  I think they'll end up with a significant decrease or possibly some weird concession none of us have considered yet.  I don't think Naperville is a very serious plan, but I think it'll be succesful when they get some of what they want.

I do hope the Co doesn't fold too far, as IL is still on the hook for like $700m in debt for fixing up SF in the oughts.  Sure seems dumb when you consider the Bears brought in less than 10m a year in direct revenue to the city.

[dll2000]

Watch this:

 

 

[StLunatic88]

39 minutes ago, BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW said:

but the idea of it being the future Bears home died the first time they strapped a hard hat to George for a wander around Arlington.  "Over here we could do hotels, with a little water park so the kids can play indoors in March when dad tours the Bearseum and mom gets mimosa's with her friends after getting a couple little things at the shops on Bear's Boulevard."  

Not that I think they will, but they could pay that full tax bill for all the years Arlington is under construction and still be swimming.

Im not convinced that the McCaskey's ever even see a game played in the new stadium as Owners.

Which is why I think the high Tax Rate is such a big thing here, because thats money actually out of their pockets. Where they are likely going to be selling based upon the "Future" value of the organization as the new Stadium/Surrounding development is being constructed. And this all accelerates even more when Virginia passes.

[Nads786]

13 hours ago, Bigbear72 said:

It's so funny that you say this. I see this stuff in the media all the time and it makes me laugh. New Orleans gets tons of tourism and they are definitely ahead of Chicago in violent crimes (so are Memphis, St. Louis, Baltimore, Detroit, and quite a few other cities).

https://www.forbes.com/sites/laurabegleybloom/2023/01/31/report-ranks-americas-15-safest-and-most-dangerous-cities-for-2023/?sh=39ce96f0309a

I get it. Chicago has crime. But I wish the narrative that it was some type of outlier with its violence would die already.

 

St. Louis, Missouri was dubbed the most dangerous city on the list. Detroit, Michigan, Milwaukee, Wisconsin, and Kansas City, Missouri, were also on the dangerous list.

Chicago did not appear on the 15 safest large cities, but it was also not on the list of most dangerous cities.

[AZBearsFan]

On 6/6/2023 at 8:49 AM, StLunatic88 said:

Im mean this is all obviously just all about leverage and politics. It seems like 95% that the new stadium (and larger development) is going to be at Arlington, but they are trying stick the franchise with a dumb tax hike. 

My suspicion is the Bears will be more amenable to paying the increased tax if it means they get some public funding towards the project out of the county revenue it would generate. 

[BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW]

On 6/6/2023 at 7:30 AM, Bigbear72 said:

It's so funny that you say this. I see this stuff in the media all the time and it makes me laugh. New Orleans gets tons of tourism and they are definitely ahead of Chicago in violent crimes (so are Memphis, St. Louis, Baltimore, Detroit, and quite a few other cities).

https://www.forbes.com/sites/laurabegleybloom/2023/01/31/report-ranks-americas-15-safest-and-most-dangerous-cities-for-2023/?sh=39ce96f0309a

I get it. Chicago has crime. But I wish the narrative that it was some type of outlier with its violence would die already.

 

I mean crime is up, but it's not worse than the late 80s, it's just more public.  Smartphones mean everything is on the internet now;  crowds of teens setting a car on fire,  botched traffic stop that ends with a shooting,  smashing windows etc.  You do need to check your sources on those though, oftentimes the same old clips with new labels make the rounds whenever someone wants to make a point.   I'm lucky enough to have a nice little place in Chicago but also have land in WI where it's just forest and field, and get to spend a lot of time up there.  Talking to the same people year after year they've recently become completely unable to say hello without-joking or seriously-referring to the place I live as some kind of hellhole, it's just rude and not true.  For what it's worth I've had more stuff stolen or destroyed up there than I ever have (knocking on all kinds of wood) down here.  Our motorbike was stolen and someone broke into our house up there, and we've got a fair number of bullet  and shot holes in buildings.  Here I have more of a problem with dog poop in the front yard than anything else. 

  

23 hours ago, StLunatic88 said:

Im not convinced that the McCaskey's ever even see a game played in the new stadium as Owners.

Which is why I think the high Tax Rate is such a big thing here, because thats money actually out of their pockets. Where they are likely going to be selling based upon the "Future" value of the organization as the new Stadium/Surrounding development is being constructed. And this all accelerates even more when Virginia passes.

Uhhh... I feel kinda dumb for not considering this. You make a good point that's at least worth thinking about. I don't think this is super likely as I think George is going to want to at least enjoy the new location for a while, or at least stay on with some ownership stake.  Maybe Bezos will just give him a permanent box to play in.  

  

10 minutes ago, AZBearsFan said:

My suspicion is the Bears will be more amenable to paying the increased tax if it means they get some public funding towards the project out of the county revenue it would generate. 

Yeah I think they're going to get something for all the posturing, it wouldn't surprise me if it was something other than a smaller bill.  I just hope they don't bend over backwards on this as even the long term benefits of giving away land/money/rates for a stadium don't seem to be there for the locals. For sure the construction, security, mainteance firms love it, but I don't know of one stadium that has been studied and found to be good for anything but very local businesses and the groups that get contracts during the build. 

[dll2000]

44 minutes ago, BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW said:

I mean crime is up, but it's not worse than the late 80s, it's just more public.  Smartphones mean everything is on the internet now;  crowds of teens setting a car on fire,  botched traffic stop that ends with a shooting,  smashing windows etc.  You do need to check your sources on those though, oftentimes the same old clips with new labels make the rounds whenever someone wants to make a point.   I'm lucky enough to have a nice little place in Chicago but also have land in WI where it's just forest and field, and get to spend a lot of time up there.  Talking to the same people year after year they've recently become completely unable to say hello without-joking or seriously-referring to the place I live as some kind of hellhole, it's just rude and not true.  For what it's worth I've had more stuff stolen or destroyed up there than I ever have (knocking on all kinds of wood) down here.  Our motorbike was stolen and someone broke into our house up there, and we've got a fair number of bullet  and shot holes in buildings.  Here I have more of a problem with dog poop in the front yard than anything else. 

  

Uhhh... I feel kinda dumb for not considering this. You make a good point that's at least worth thinking about. I don't think this is super likely as I think George is going to want to at least enjoy the new location for a while, or at least stay on with some ownership stake.  Maybe Bezos will just give him a permanent box to play in.  

  

Yeah I think they're going to get something for all the posturing, it wouldn't surprise me if it was something other than a smaller bill.  I just hope they don't bend over backwards on this as even the long term benefits of giving away land/money/rates for a stadium don't seem to be there for the locals. For sure the construction, security, mainteance firms love it, but I don't know of one stadium that has been studied and found to be good for anything but very local businesses and the groups that get contracts during the build. 

Perception is reality.

If your wife saw violence and shooting on news and cell video clips on social media daily in Cancun - she isn't going to want to vacation in Cancun.

-To sell a monopoly is crazy to me.   Like killing a golden goose for the price of a gold egg.   But people do it because they want even more money right now.   So it is possible.   His great grandkids won't be rich though I predict if he does that.   Maybe that is for the best for them.

Bears deal in Arlington will get done.  

[BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW]

1 minute ago, dll2000 said:

Perception is reality.

If your wife saw violence and shooting on news and cell video clips on social media daily in Cancun - she isn't going to want to vacation in Cancun.

-To sell a monopoly is crazy to me.   Like killing a golden goose for the price of a gold egg.   But people do it because they want even more money right now.   So it is possible.   His great grandkids won't be rich though I predict if he does that.   Maybe that is for the best for them.

Bears deal in Arlington will get done.  

DLL, you have an eerie way of making good points with me.  I think we're quite different in our views on the world, but even when I don't like what you think I can usually see the reasoning.  Reason I'm saying this is I was best man at a destination wedding* in Cancun and it's when there were all kinds of fresh travel advisories etc.  We went of course but weren't nearly as adventurous as we normally are on vacation. Didn't hurt that we had two really young kids we were away from for the first time, but like you say perception and reality.   I have a weird thing where I get along with/like to work with/am friends with more people from the other side of politics on most of the issues I feel strongly about,  really makes things weird but I hope I can at least understand other pts of view.

I agree with the selling out point, I think it would be crazy but I feel like George feels a lot of stress from his ownership, so who knows. StL got me thinking about it and I can come up with loads of reasons for it now though. 

Bears anywhere but Arlignton is going to require lots of failures up and down the chain. It makes far too much sense.  

 

*If you have a destination wedding,  please consider that not everyone wants their next vacation chosen for them and for the love of all that is holy at least check in with the people who are going to be obligated to be in your wedding if they want to spend 5 figures to be there.  

[dll2000]

Was thinking more about Bears taxes in Arlington.

I am not an expert in assessments, but I know some.   

Technically, I believe, they should have put in permits to demolish property earlier.   So Assessor was technically following the letter of law when he assessed it at purchase price value.

But this is an NFL franchise on a 9 figure deal that will turn into a 10 figure deal soon.   

I can't believe Assessor didn't think it through what was actually happening more when he put that through and who he was dealing with.   I reiterate - that is POSSIBLE.   

 But if he was using his brain, he would know there is no way Bears weren't going to go nuts when they saw that immediate tax bill.   And Bears aren't like many other big owners you can push around as a local govt. official.   And believe me local govt. officials and some police officers LOVE to push around important people.   

Bears can generate a lot of ink and social media reaction.   And with that a lot of public pressure.   This was handled stupidly all the way around.

[BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW]

7 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

Was thinking more about Bears taxes in Arlington.

I am not an expert in assessments, but I know some.   

Technically, I believe, they should have put in permits to demolish property earlier.   So Assessor was technically following the letter of law when he assessed it at purchase price value.

But this is an NFL franchise on a 9 figure deal that will turn into a 10 figure deal soon.   

I can't believe Assessor didn't think it through what was actually happening more when he put that through and who he was dealing with.   I reiterate - that is POSSIBLE.   

 But if he was using his brain, he would know there is no way Bears weren't going to go nuts when they saw that immediate tax bill.   And Bears aren't like many other big owners you can push around as a local govt. official.   And believe me local govt. officials and some police officers LOVE to push around important people.   

Bears can generate a lot of ink and social media reaction.   And with that a lot of public pressure.   This was handled stupidly all the way around.

When you're dealing with deals with little precedent, why not start high?  I think the people involved really assume this will get done.  I'd feel better about the county finances if I didn't at least  start with a totally justifiable valuation (sale price) , knowing the Bears would freak publicly, and also knowing I had a real number I'd be thrilled to negotiate down to. *

 

*My guess is there's a loss of around 30-40% over the build, or a similarly valued concession. *Also, serious about destination weddings, you ******* don't do that unless you're really certain your party wants to party like that

Edited June 7, 2023 by BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW

[StLunatic88]

1 hour ago, BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW said:

Uhhh... I feel kinda dumb for not considering this. You make a good point that's at least worth thinking about. I don't think this is super likely as I think George is going to want to at least enjoy the new location for a while, or at least stay on with some ownership stake.  Maybe Bezos will just give him a permanent box to play in.  

This is for sure all speculation on my part, but they are as cash poor as an ownership there is in the League. So the sooner they can get some real money out of all of this, the better (for all parties, especially if it’s Bezos)

But I also don’t think they will ever just kick the McCaskey’s to the curb when they do sell. Just doesn’t make sense to do that. 

[dll2000]

2 hours ago, BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW said:

When you're dealing with deals with little precedent, why not start high?  I think the people involved really assume this will get done.  I'd feel better about the county finances if I didn't at least  start with a totally justifiable valuation (sale price) , knowing the Bears would freak publicly, and also knowing I had a real number I'd be thrilled to negotiate down to. *

 

*My guess is there's a loss of around 30-40% over the build, or a similarly valued concession. *Also, serious about destination weddings, you ******* don't do that unless you're really certain your party wants to party like that

If you do a destination wedding you have to expect many people just won't go.  Which is point and goal for some.

But your wedding destination vacation is not in many people's budget.   Plus many people maybe get a week vacation a year they can take, some two.   They like to pick their own vacations.

You can't be offended if even your best friend or family member doesn't want to go.    My sister wanted to do Hawaii way back when.  One of my older brothers told her he wasn't going as soon as it left her lips.

  

 

[dll2000]

2 hours ago, BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW said:

When you're dealing with deals with little precedent, why not start high?  I think the people involved really assume this will get done.  I'd feel better about the county finances if I didn't at least  start with a totally justifiable valuation (sale price) , knowing the Bears would freak publicly, and also knowing I had a real number I'd be thrilled to negotiate down to. *

 

*My guess is there's a loss of around 30-40% over the build, or a similarly valued concession. *Also, serious about destination weddings, you ******* don't do that unless you're really certain your party wants to party like that

Here is deal IMO.   Odds are Bears aren't likely to leave Arlington.   It is perfect for them.   They have already slapped down 200 mil+.   Fan base is here, etc. 

  But they can and they will if they think you are going to see them as blood to your mosquito instead of a partner.   

Other cities/counties want NFL teams.   It is naive to think they won't leave or can't leave.   This isn't Disney World leaving FL.   It would be easy for Bears to find another city that wants them inside or outside of Illinois.   Especially now.   

These games are stupid.   Even if it was a game, now you just put it in their head that you are going to jack up taxes unreasonably in future or as soon as you have leverage.   

Why would they think that?  Oh, because you just did it already before anything much has even happened.  You showed your cards.  You showed your intentions and attitude.

Now I would think the Bears demand an ongoing tax agreement for AFTER the billion dollars goes on top of that land and it isn't so easy to leave.  BEFORE they do anything more (other than demolish race track).

You have lost all trust right off the bat.   This could delay things further has now all that has to be hammered out.   Delays cost money.   For everyone. 

That land is just sitting there not earning money in meantime.   Stupid.