StatKing Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 36 minutes ago, JDBrocks said: Who's leading the league in game winning drives over the past 3 seasons? Whats that gotten ya? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDBrocks Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 (edited) 2 minutes ago, StatKing said: Whats that gotten ya? Just saying it's a bad, tired narrative that Kirk Cousins "melts down". The guy has been playing really well for 3 years, and once they moved on from the bad conservative decision making of the previous regime, they are winning close games instead of losing them. Josh Allen melted down. Kirk was lights out when it counted. Edited November 16, 2022 by JDBrocks implodes > meltdown 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StatKing Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 4 minutes ago, JDBrocks said: Just saying it's a bad, tired narrative that Kirk Cousins "implodes". The guy has been playing really well for 3 years, and once they moved on from the bad conservative decision making of the previous regime, they are winning close games instead of losing them. Josh Allen imploded. Kirk was lights out when it counted. I've watched plenty of Vikings games my guy. I don't know how you can use that Bills game as a defense for him not melting down. Did we watch the same game? He absolutely tried giving that game away if it wasn't for Josh Allen having quite possibly the worst fumble in NFL history you guys lose. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDBrocks Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 4 minutes ago, StatKing said: I've watched plenty of Vikings games my guy. I don't know how you can use that Bills game as a defense for him not melting down. Did we watch the same game? He absolutely tried giving that game away if it wasn't for Josh Allen having quite possibly the worst fumble in NFL history you guys lose. Josh Allen threw two picks in the redzone AND fumbled the ball in the endzone and you're still saying Kirk is the one that melted down. Classic. In which instance did Kirk try to "give the game away"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakuvious Posted November 17, 2022 Share Posted November 17, 2022 8 hours ago, JDBrocks said: Josh Allen threw two picks in the redzone AND fumbled the ball in the endzone and you're still saying Kirk is the one that melted down. Classic. In which instance did Kirk try to "give the game away"? When he failed to score after 1st and goal from the 3 yard line with the game presumably on the line. 99% of the time, they would've lost the game the instant they failed on 4th and goal. He got credit for a 4th quarter comeback because of a defensive touchdown. It is entirely possible for both QBs to have failed. One of them still has to win. If Josh Allen hadn't fumbled, would it have been unfair to say Cousins failed with the game on the line then? Josh Allen choking worse does not erase that failure with 3 yards to go to win the game. He also threw a really, really terrible INT earlier in the half. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDBrocks Posted November 17, 2022 Share Posted November 17, 2022 4 minutes ago, Jakuvious said: When he failed to score after 1st and goal from the 3 yard line with the game presumably on the line. 99% of the time, they would've lost the game the instant they failed on 4th and goal. He got credit for a 4th quarter comeback because of a defensive touchdown. It is entirely possible for both QBs to have failed. One of them still has to win. If Josh Allen hadn't fumbled, would it have been unfair to say Cousins failed with the game on the line then? Josh Allen choking worse does not erase that failure with 3 yards to go to win the game. He also threw a really, really terrible INT earlier in the half. 1st down his lineman stepped on him. Kirk put one on Jefferson that was inches away from being a TD on 3rd and goal. Then Cook dropping a walk in touchdown is Kirk melting down? The Bills also lined up offsides on the QB sneak. He threw two really bad INTs in the game. But he led the team to scores and made clutch throws when the game was on the line and in no way tried to “give the game away”. It’s just fun to hate on Cousins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakuvious Posted November 17, 2022 Share Posted November 17, 2022 9 minutes ago, JDBrocks said: 1st down his lineman stepped on him. Kirk put one on Jefferson that was inches away from being a TD on 3rd and goal. Then Cook dropping a walk in touchdown is Kirk melting down? The Bills also lined up offsides on the QB sneak. He threw two really bad INTs in the game. But he led the team to scores and made clutch throws when the game was on the line and in no way tried to “give the game away”. It’s just fun to hate on Cousins. Look, if you're going to give him credit for winning the game, you can't then veer blame to everyone else when they didn't score. All the failed downs are on everyone else, but you're not going to mention the absurd play by Jefferson to get them there, because that doesn't fit your pro-Cousins narrative. To you, the comeback is a credit to Kirk, the failures previously are not, and that's hypocritical. It is not just fun to hate on Cousins, there is just reasonable backlash when people inevitably start to overrate him again. He is an inconsistent player, and always has been. When he has good runs, you inevitably get this pop up of conversations talking about how Kirk was always great and everyone's been wrong, and then he'll have his down patches and the "I told you so's" will go the other direction again. Some of us just realize that Kirk is who he is, whether he's currently having highs or lows, and what that is is a pretty good, slightly above average, but also probably not quite good enough, QB. That's fine, but the only reason anyone puts him down is when people start over-crediting and overrating him, like here. This is the same as like, people saying Matt Stafford was a hall of famer last year. I've seen this debate in the Washington subforum with Cousins, the Chiefs subforum with Alex Smith, the Raiders subforum with Derek Carr, the 49ers with Jimmy G and Colin Kaepernick and Alex Smith. Mid-tier, inconsistent QBs, become the subject of a stupid level of debate because people pick a side, and every time a stretch of games match their view, they want to brag about it. The reality is, these guys are always the same QB, there are just peaks and valleys. Kirk Cousins has been a mid-tier QB for like a decade now. He's been somewhere between like the 8th best QB and the 16th best QB for ages, depending on the quality of QB play around the league. People want to act like this changes after every patch of good games or bad games, but he is the same QB in the same tier. He's winning games so pro-Kirk fans are loud so I'll fight against that narrative. When he inevitably stumbles and people start saying he sucks, I'll fight against that narrative as well. I've been told I'm a Cousins hater and a Cousins supporter, depending on which way the wind blows that month, and which side is vocal and "right" at the time. Right now, he's just in a patch of getting overrated because he's winning. We've seen this before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDBrocks Posted November 17, 2022 Share Posted November 17, 2022 3 minutes ago, Jakuvious said: Look, if you're going to give him credit for winning the game, you can't then veer blame to everyone else when they didn't score. All the failed downs are on everyone else, but you're not going to mention the absurd play by Jefferson to get them there, because that doesn't fit your pro-Cousins narrative. To you, the comeback is a credit to Kirk, the failures previously are not, and that's hypocritical. It is not just fun to hate on Cousins, there is just reasonable backlash when people inevitably start to overrate him again. He is an inconsistent player, and always has been. When he has good runs, you inevitably get this pop up of conversations talking about how Kirk was always great and everyone's been wrong, and then he'll have his down patches and the "I told you so's" will go the other direction again. Some of us just realize that Kirk is who he is, whether he's currently having highs or lows, and what that is is a pretty good, slightly above average, but also probably not quite good enough, QB. That's fine, but the only reason anyone puts him down is when people start over-crediting and overrating him, like here. This is the same as like, people saying Matt Stafford was a hall of famer last year. I've seen this debate in the Washington subforum with Cousins, the Chiefs subforum with Alex Smith, the Raiders subforum with Derek Carr, the 49ers with Jimmy G and Colin Kaepernick and Alex Smith. Mid-tier, inconsistent QBs, become the subject of a stupid level of debate because people pick a side, and every time a stretch of games match their view, they want to brag about it. The reality is, these guys are always the same QB, there are just peaks and valleys. Kirk Cousins has been a mid-tier QB for like a decade now. He's been somewhere between like the 8th best QB and the 16th best QB for ages, depending on the quality of QB play around the league. People want to act like this changes after every patch of good games or bad games, but he is the same QB in the same tier. He's winning games so pro-Kirk fans are loud so I'll fight against that narrative. When he inevitably stumbles and people start saying he sucks, I'll fight against that narrative as well. I've been told I'm a Cousins hater and a Cousins supporter, depending on which way the wind blows that month, and which side is vocal and "right" at the time. Right now, he's just in a patch of getting overrated because he's winning. We've seen this before. I didn't talk about the rest of the game because that's not what you brought up. Did I say Jefferson wasn't tremendous or that it wasn't an absurd play? The debate was about giving the game away and blaming Cousins when he actually played pretty great football in crunch time IN THIS GAME. that's it. I'm not going to re-hash the rest of the game, you can watch the end of the game on youtube and it will show you that Kirk was making big throws, putting them in a position to win, and definitely not giving the game away. He had a bad 2nd and most of the 3rd, like the rest of the offense has all year. He stepped up when it counted and had some unfortunate mistakes happen. Which parts of what I said in the post you quoted above were not factual? I was never a Kirk fan either. I actually can't stand the guy off the field. He's just been a better QB than his reputation for the better part of the last 3 years. Nice of you to make wild leaps and assumptions about what "my narrative" is and call me a hypocrite without ever having interacted with me about football in the decade plus that I've been on this site. I'm not calling him a top 5 QB. I'm just saying he's not the choke artist that he's made out to be. I watch every game and I think I'm pretty fair about it. I was pissed when they traded Diggs and thought that a lot of it was Kirk's fault because he wouldn't throw the ball to him when he was open. At any rate, if you want to talk more about this, DM me because that's not what this thread is for. On Topic: I think the Vikings are for real and will compete with anyone on any given Sunday, no matter how good or bad they are. They've had a ton of luck this year, but also are winning in the margins by being aggressive where they weren't last year, and playing disciplined mostly penalty free football. It's exciting to think about where they will be with this OL, Jefferson, and Hockenson for the foreseeable future when they find the guy to take over for Cousins. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingOfNewYork Posted November 17, 2022 Share Posted November 17, 2022 These blame games on Quarterbacks are so inconsistent on this board. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TecmoSuperJoe Posted November 17, 2022 Share Posted November 17, 2022 (edited) Week 10 DVOA Analysis: Vikings are the worst 8-1 team in DVOA history... Quote At this point, we'e gotten to a completely ridiculous point with the Minnesota Vikings and our "Worst DVOA at X-X record" tables. Scroll down the page and you'll see the 8-1 Vikings aren't even in the top half of the league in DVOA this year! The Vikings are the first team to ever have an 8-1 record with a negative DVOA. They are over 10 percentage points worse than any other 8-1 team in DVOA history. https://www.footballoutsiders.com/dvoa-analysis/2022/afc-beasts Didn't think they'd have a overall negative DVOA ranking. That's interesting. All that matters is what happens in the playoffs, but I'm not a Viking fan, and even reading that hurt a bit oof. If the 49ers can't reach the Super Bowl, I would want the Vikings to make it. Edited November 17, 2022 by TecmoSuperJoe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ty21 Posted November 17, 2022 Share Posted November 17, 2022 I’d say Min doesn’t have the defense to compete when it matters, but I feel like this season is a super weak year for the entire league. Meaning moreso than usual, any team has a shot. As a bears fan, I hate seeing the lions and packers in the playoffs but I don’t hate the Vikings and never have. They’re kinda like our nfc north cousin. If at the end of the season, Kirk Thuggins is shirtless in chains and holding up the Lombardi I won’t cry. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vike daddy Posted November 17, 2022 Share Posted November 17, 2022 On 11/13/2022 at 2:57 PM, Chiefer said: I agree though, I need some good prime time games until I’m a real believer in Cousins yeah, we would need to beat a real top notch team at their own stadium. like Buffalo or someone. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ty21 Posted November 17, 2022 Share Posted November 17, 2022 16 minutes ago, vike daddy said: yeah, we would need to beat a real top notch team at their own stadium. like Buffalo or someone. It’s not enough. You need to beat the 1972 Dolphins. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiefer Posted November 17, 2022 Share Posted November 17, 2022 1 hour ago, vike daddy said: yeah, we would need to beat a real top notch team at their own stadium. like Buffalo or someone. I said prime time that was not a prime time game last time I saw Cousins in prime time it was not good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDBrocks Posted November 17, 2022 Share Posted November 17, 2022 1 hour ago, Chiefer said: I said prime time that was not a prime time game last time I saw Cousins in prime time it was not good basically the same guy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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