Trevor Lawrence has arrived

[KingOfNewYork]

4 minutes ago, ET80 said:

Hard disagree on Luck. He was good (better than Lawrence, surely) but he absolutely did not live up to a generational tag. Heck, he's not even the best QB from his draft, Russell Wilson has better accolades and numbers.

Whether or not its his fault is up for debate - but if we're giving Luck a caviat, why can't we give Lawrence one?

Luck better. 

[Charles]

5 minutes ago, ET80 said:

Hard disagree on Luck. He was good (better than Lawrence, surely) but he absolutely did not live up to a generational tag. Heck, he's not even the best QB from his draft, Russell Wilson has better accolades and numbers.

Whether or not its his fault is up for debate - but if we're giving Luck a caviat, why can't we give Lawrence one?

In Luck's defense, he had no where near the supporting cast Manning had.  Indy did a terrible job building a team around him.

[ET80]

3 minutes ago, Charles said:

In Luck's defense, he had no where near the supporting cast Manning had.  Indy did a terrible job building a team around him.

But that's sort of my point on Luck v Lawrence - would you say Luck's supporting cast (Reggie Wayne, TY Hilton, Coby Fleener) is better than Lawrence's (Zay Jones, Christian Kirk, Evan Engram)? 

If Luck is "generational" under this context, why can't Lawrence be there under this context?

[ET80]

9 minutes ago, KingOfNewYork said:

Luck better. 

[ronjon1990]

1 hour ago, Yin-Yang said:

People think this?

Dude had maybe a year or two, tops, where he was a top 5ish QB. Not even an elite one. I never hear anyone talking about Luck as a would-be HOFer.

Anymore? No. 

Coming into the league and immediately upon leaving? Yeah. He was getting the Barry Sanders treatment. 

[NJerseypaint]

Luck took the worst team in the NFL to the playoffs his rookie year, then the division championship the following year, and then the conference championship after that.

 

 

Nah, totally didn't live up to the generational hype.

[KhanYouDigIt]

16 minutes ago, Charles said:

I thought Trevor was good yesterday,  but I'm not seeing plays that other qbs can't make.  Good, not great.  

You must have fell asleep sipping on your Marlboro Natty Light.

[ramssuperbowl99]

18 minutes ago, ET80 said:

Hard disagree on Luck. He was good (better than Lawrence, surely) but he absolutely did not live up to a generational tag. Heck, he's not even the best QB from his draft, Russell Wilson has better accolades and numbers.

Whether or not its his fault is up for debate - but if we're giving Luck a caviat, why can't we give Lawrence one?

Luck lived up to expectations. Manning exceeded them.

 

If being the arguable GOAT at your position at the time of retirement is "meeting expectations", the expectations were out of whack. (Which is why I brought Luck into the conversation in the first place.)

[Soko]

3 minutes ago, NJerseypaint said:

Luck took the worst team in the NFL to the playoffs his rookie year, then the division championship the following year, and then the conference championship after that.

Nah, totally didn't live up to the generational hype.

Was Andrew Luck a generational player? Future HOFer? No & no. Very much unfairly so, but that was the hype. “The next Peyton Manning.” Taking some crappy teams to the playoffs in a crappy division doesn’t make you a generational player.

[ET80]

2 minutes ago, ramssuperbowl99 said:

Luck lived up to expectations.

As a generational talent? I'll say he was a franchise QB who had some hallmark moments but I wouldn't say that specific expectation of "generational talent" was ever reached. His career is expected of a franchise QB - but he wasn't ever billed as a franchise QB, teams actively tried to "suck for Luck" to get him.

6 minutes ago, ramssuperbowl99 said:

If being the arguable GOAT at your position at the time of retirement is "meeting expectations", the expectations were out of whack. (Which is why I brought Luck into the conversation in the first place).

No argument here, tbh. 

[ramssuperbowl99]

5 minutes ago, ET80 said:

As a generational talent? I'll say he was a franchise QB who had some hallmark moments but I wouldn't say that specific expectation of "generational talent" was ever reached. His career is expected of a franchise QB - but he wasn't ever billed as a franchise QB, teams actively tried to "suck for Luck" to get him.

What did he not do that you would expect a "generational talent" to do? Were there throws you didn't see him make? From his arm strength, accuracy, information processing/read speed, ability to make multiple reads, ability to scramble/run, he showed he was exactly what we should have expected.

The only criticisms I see of Luck are that he didn't win a SB, and he didn't play very long. The former is a team game, and the latter is injury history. Generational talents are still only people, injury risk is real for them too.

Edited November 7, 2022 by ramssuperbowl99

[Soko]

3 minutes ago, ramssuperbowl99 said:

What did he not do that you would expect a "generational talent" to do? Were there throws you didn't see him make? From his arm strength, accuracy, information processing/read speed, ability to make multiple reads, ability to scramble run, he showed he was exactly what we should have expected.

Luck had an inconsistent arm and wasn’t all that hard to fool into throwing picks. His arm (likely had more to do with his mechanics) was even weirder because he didn’t have a rocket but would still sail passes. Like yeah, you can nitpick anyone’s game, but generational..?

Edited November 7, 2022 by Yin-Yang

[ET80]

8 minutes ago, NJerseypaint said:

Luck took the worst team in the NFL to the playoffs his rookie year, then the division championship the following year, and then the conference championship after that.

 

 

Nah, totally didn't live up to the generational hype.

The "worst team in the NFL" was a divisional winner with Peyton Manning the year before they went 2-14. Two years before that, they were 14-2 and lost to New Orleans in the Super Bowl.

Let's not pretend that Colts team didn't have a glaring hole at one position. Tell me how a team does when they go from Manning to... *checks notes* Curtis Painter. Because that's exactly what happened.

Sure, Luck made an AFCCG, but followed that up with back to back 8-8 seasons and never took that next proverbial step forward.

[ramssuperbowl99]

3 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

Luck had an inconsistent arm and wasn’t all that hard to fool into throwing picks. His arm (likely had more to do with his mechanics) was even weirder because he didn’t have a rocket but would still sail passes. Like yeah, you can nitpick anyone’s game, but generational..?

He's 35th all time in INT%, ahead of Phil Rivers, Joe Montana, Steve Young, and, ironically enough, Peyton Manning.

[ET80]

4 minutes ago, ramssuperbowl99 said:

What did he not do that you would expect a "generational talent" to do? Were there throws you didn't see him make?

Luck was incredibly risky and turned the ball over a lot more than you'd want at QB. Even injury seasons, he turned the ball over at an alarming rate - he only had one season where he had less than 10 INTs (9 his 2nd year). Even in years where he missed over half the season, he was throwing 12-13 INTs. You combine that with an average of 7 fumbles a season over his careerand you have a QB who turned the ball over a LOT.

Now, I'm not saying he's not good - you took the good with the bad, no argument here. But for me, those turnovers will absolutely hold him back from the expectations put before him.