Joe Barry'd again

[incognito_man]

6 minutes ago, Bcv said:

Having no back-up playcaller on defense is an incredible lack of judgement on Lafleur and/or whoever put that coaching staff together.
 

What would happen if your DC gets sick or is out for whatever reason unrelated to football? Life can happen, and fast. 
 

Key positions requires, at least, one back up. That’s like management 101. 

It's an enormous assumption (and almost certainly an incorrect one) that there doesn't exist another "defensive playcaller" on the coaching staff. 

[Packerraymond]

6 minutes ago, incognito_man said:

It's an enormous assumption (and almost certainly an incorrect one) that there doesn't exist another "defensive playcaller" on the coaching staff. 

LaFleur said he did not have a better option out of his own mouth. So it's not an assumption. Unless your argument is that Barry is the superior option to the other playcaller on staff, in which that would be an indictment on LaFleur.

 

[packfanfb]

6 hours ago, Mr Anonymous said:

I'm honestly relieved by the past 2 weeks. If I thought the Packers had a legitimate shot to even get to the Super Bowl this year, yeah I'd be mad as any of you. But I was getting a little nervous during the 3 game win streak that Barry might weasel his way into sticking around. That would have been a disaster. This implosion against the Giants and Bucs is a blessing and we'll all reap the rewards next year.

Which is all kind of sad btw...that it takes complete and utter disaster in order for the fans to have even remote confidence that LaFleur would stand up and make some necessary changes. 

Meanwhile, in 2014, the Broncos fired John Fox despite a 12-4 record and having massive regular season success the past 3 years. Why? Because they weren't satisfied and knew he wasn't good enough to get them over the top. They made a coaching change and won the SB the following year in 2015. That's called having some foresight. 

I agree, if the Packers would have finished out the year and snuck into the playoffs, LaFleur likely would have been foolish enough to bring Barry back. It's just laughable poor judgment all the way around. 

[incognito_man]

3 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

LaFleur said he did not have a better option out of his own mouth. So it's not an assumption. Unless your argument is that Barry is the superior option to the other playcaller on staff, in which that would be an indictment on LaFleur.

 

You're famous for defending coaches during pressers for "coach speak".

I suggest you extend that to this instance here again (even though it challenges another opinion you have, it's probably not the right call to ignore it this one time)

[{Family Ghost}]

1 minute ago, Packerraymond said:

LaFleur said he did not have a better option out of his own mouth. So it's not an assumption. Unless your argument is that Barry is the superior option to the other playcaller on staff, in which that would be an indictment on LaFleur.

 

It is an indictment on LaFleur's ability to put together a high quality staff.  He needs to hire a defensive consultant or someone that can help him put together the best staff possible.  

[Packerraymond]

1 minute ago, incognito_man said:

You're famous for defending coaches during pressers for "coach speak".

I suggest you extend that to this instance here again (even though it challenges another opinion you have, it's probably not the right call to ignore it this one time)

Who is the defensive playcaller? We have one former DC on the staff. Jerry Montgomery, DC of North Iowa Area Community College in 2005. 

And being a DC goes beyond calling off the sheet. That's probably the easiest of roles a DC has. They're in charge of formulating the gameplan, they create the practice plan for the 3 practices, work with the offensive scout team to create the looks necessary for team, create the checks/audibles for the week, etc...  It's an assumption to think anything about the DC role as none of us know, I think the safest assumption is surely that Matt didn't trust anyone to assume that role on his staff, thus he kept Barry around for 3 weeks. 

[incognito_man]

13 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

Who is the defensive playcaller? We have one former DC on the staff. Jerry Montgomery, DC of North Iowa Area Community College in 2005. 

And being a DC goes beyond calling off the sheet. That's probably the easiest of roles a DC has. They're in charge of formulating the gameplan, they create the practice plan for the 3 practices, work with the offensive scout team to create the looks necessary for team, create the checks/audibles for the week, etc...  It's an assumption to think anything about the DC role as none of us know, I think the safest assumption is surely that Matt didn't trust anyone to assume that role on his staff, thus he kept Barry around for 3 weeks. 

Even if it's true that MLF thinks Barry is the best defensive playcaller all the staff, there might be someone who is actually better (whether or not they've called plays before).

[Packerraymond]

7 minutes ago, incognito_man said:

Even if it's true that MLF thinks Barry is the best defensive playcaller all the staff, there might be someone who is actually better (whether or not they've called plays before).

Correct, hindsight is 50/50 remember. Won't really be able to judge LaFleur on this decision unless one of these guys becomes a successful DC elsewhere someday. 

[Old Guy]

28 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

Who is the defensive playcaller? We have one former DC on the staff. Jerry Montgomery, DC of North Iowa Area Community College in 2005. 

And being a DC goes beyond calling off the sheet. That's probably the easiest of roles a DC has. They're in charge of formulating the gameplan, they create the practice plan for the 3 practices, work with the offensive scout team to create the looks necessary for team, create the checks/audibles for the week, etc...  It's an assumption to think anything about the DC role as none of us know, I think the safest assumption is surely that Matt didn't trust anyone to assume that role on his staff, thus he kept Barry around for 3 weeks. 

First bolded part, Barry = addition by subtraction. 

Second bolded part, two strikes for Matt.

Strike 1: not training the subordinates to be able to do the DC's job in case of an emergency. Any CEO knows this is the golden rule! 

Strike 2: Hiring people with no capacity to achieve beyond their current position. Is that indeed MLF's belief or is it an easy out. I'm guessing it's the ladder. 

More importantly, you are grasping at straws in defense of MLF. Just admit it and we can put this dog to bed. 

 

 

Edited December 19, 2023 by Old Guy

[squire12]

49 minutes ago, Bcv said:

Having no back-up playcaller on defense is an incredible lack of judgement on Lafleur and/or whoever put that coaching staff together.
 

What would happen if your DC gets sick or is out for whatever reason unrelated to football? Life can happen, and fast. 
 

Key positions requires, at least, one back up. That’s like management 101. 

Barry going next level on defensive ataff construction.... " they cant fire me if there is no supposedly capable replacement "

[BluePacker]

19 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

Matt didn't trust anyone to assume that role on his staff, thus he kept Barry around for 3 weeks. 

Two things here:

First, a complete failure to hold staff accountable and to develope the staff. That isn't just on Barry, that is on MLF. As a coach/manager one of your duties is make sure the person under you can step up and take on your duties of need be. If you recognized that nobody was up to it then why didn't you either devote more resources to getting them there or find someone to replace that person?

Second, MLF has now made the decision that loyalty to his failing DC is stronger than player morale. Obviously the defensive locker room is rolling downhill fast, there is a pretty big lack of player respect for Barry's system that is now going to spill into MLF. Ignoring the elephant in the room typically doesn't work out well for anyone except the elephant. 

And before you come back with "that's an assumption" - Anyone with eyes can see Barry is the problem and keeping him is not a solution. Your putting lipstick on a pig at this point, just stop. 

[squire12]

12 minutes ago, incognito_man said:

Even if it's true that MLF thinks Barry is the best defensive playcaller all the staff, there might be someone who is actually better (whether or not they've called plays before).

Its as if you cannot ever be hired as a DC unless you have called plays for a defense.  

Newsflash....EVERY DC at one time was maling their very first defensive playcall.  

 

[squire12]

GB has a defensive run game coordinator and pass game coordinator and neither of them are supposedly being in on potential play calls during weekly prep meetings or during games.

[Old Guy]

1 minute ago, squire12 said:

GB has a defensive run game coordinator and pass game coordinator and neither of them are supposedly being in on potential play calls during weekly prep meetings or during games.

The guy is extremely football knowledgeable. Criticism of MLF for not moving on from Barry is his blind spot. Two weeks ago when I was pointing to the improved defense, he was all over me for suggesting if it continued Barry should stay. 

It didn't, got worse, now is the time for Barry to go.

[Packerraymond]

6 minutes ago, BluePacker said:

Two things here:

First, a complete failure to hold staff accountable and to develope the staff. That isn't just on Barry, that is on MLF. As a coach/manager one of your duties is make sure the person under you can step up and take on your duties of need be. If you recognized that nobody was up to it then why didn't you either devote more resources to getting them there or find someone to replace that person?

Second, MLF has now made the decision that loyalty to his failing DC is stronger than player morale. Obviously the defensive locker room is rolling downhill fast, there is a pretty big lack of player respect for Barry's system that is now going to spill into MLF. Ignoring the elephant in the room typically doesn't work out well for anyone except the elephant. 

And before you come back with "that's an assumption" - Anyone with eyes can see Barry is the problem and keeping him is not a solution. Your putting lipstick on a pig at this point, just stop. 

He's not keeping Joe Barry. Don't know how many times it has to be said. He'll be fired in 3 weeks.

Most of the board just got done praising the staff 3 weeks ago for the stretch vs LA/Det/KC, now having that same staff 2 weeks later is a complete failure? 

I recall being one of the few still adamant about firing Barry 3 weeks ago. Always knew it would be after the season.