Joe Barry'd again

[Mr Anonymous]

4 minutes ago, MacReady said:

Another one of your sources or just your own speculation?

No direct source but informed speculation. The reality of the situation is that he would've been gone after last season if the team had money to spend in free agency and were going for it this year. They'll have money to spend after this year and that's when you align free agency with your new coordinator and scheme. Land your new DC and then target players who fit the new scheme accordingly.

I've maybe mentioned this 3-4 times now dating back to early in this past offseason. It's all about aligning availability. Throwaway season isn't the perfect word because you never know if young talent will compete early but the reality is that this is a rebuilding year. You don't waste a new DC on a rebuilding year.

Edited September 30, 2023 by Mr Anonymous

[MacReady]

4 minutes ago, Mr Anonymous said:

No direct source but informed speculation. The reality of the situation is that he would've been gone after last season if the team had money to spend in free agency and were going for it this year. They'll have money to spend after this year and that's when you align free agency with your new coordinator and scheme. Land your new DC and then target players who fit the new scheme accordingly

If our philosophy is to get players to fit the scheme rather than have some one who can scheme for the players they have, this is going to be another in a line of bad coaches.

And to anyone who says it’s players and not coaches, I’d like to see a single time in Belichick’s entire career he’s had a bad defense two years in a row, especially considering he’s turned 37 nobody corners into big free agent mistakes.

[Tperk]

7 minutes ago, Mr Anonymous said:

No direct source but informed speculation. The reality of the situation is that he would've been gone after last season if the team had money to spend in free agency and were going for it this year. They'll have money to spend after this year and that's when you align free agency with your new coordinator and scheme. Land your new DC and then target players who fit the new scheme accordingly.

I've maybe mentioned this 3-4 times now dating back to early in this past offseason. It's all about aligning availability. Throwaway season isn't the perfect word because you never know if young talent will compete early but the reality is that this is a rebuilding year. You don't waste a new DC on a rebuilding year.

You would think that the team would want to get someone in sooner than later to get the players comfortable and accustomed to the new scheme. Seems like if we wait until after the season we never seem to get the top one or two candidates that are out there and we end up right here again with a D coordinator like Barry.

[Mr Anonymous]

C'mon @MacReady, Belichick doesn't simply pluck any talented player and scheme around them. Belichick chooses players to fit scheme just as much as anybody. He's just better at getting exactly what he thinks he can get out of them.

Read my addition to the comment you quoted. This isn't the year to shoot a big bullet. The next wave of success defining moves are coming after this season. This is a developmental year.

Edited September 30, 2023 by Mr Anonymous

[Mr Anonymous]

1 minute ago, Tperk said:

You would think that the team would want to get someone in sooner than later to get the players comfortable and accustomed to the new scheme. Seems like if we wait until after the season we never seem to get the top one or two candidates that are out there and we end up right here again with a D coordinator like Barry.

You don't saddle a new DC with a developmental season. That's not only a good way to be one and done at a key coaching position, but it's also not a job that attracts the best candidates. Everyone thinks of these interviews as one way streets. The top DC's aren't just fielding questions from the team, they're asking the team what their plan is. 2024 is the year the Packers will finally have a cleaner cap. That factors in for both sides.

[Tperk]

4 minutes ago, Mr Anonymous said:

You don't saddle a new DC with a developmental season. That's not only a good way to be one and done at a key coaching position, but it's also not a job that attracts the best candidates. Everyone thinks of these interviews as one way streets. The top DC's aren't just fielding questions from the team, they're asking the team what their plan is. 2024 is the year the Packers will finally have a cleaner cap. That factors in for both sides.

Maybe I've drank too much green kool-aid, but you would hope that a few decent D coordinators would be chomping at the bit to work with this defense.

[Mr Anonymous]

Easy example is what if the next DC is heavy 4-3. Much better and easier to make that change when they can go out and get the one key player in FA to make his scheme hum. Or maybe it's a guy who loves to line up 2-4-5 😉.

You make that change when you have your full array of resources to get the pieces that the new DC will need for their scheme.

[Mr Anonymous]

Hasn't been explored much but there's also a staleness factor in all of this. Any scheme if run long enough is going to be picked apart and dissected over time. It's why you often see a new DC or new OC make a huge difference in their first year. It's new looks with new personnel that take opponents by surprise and require time to scheme back at. If you're in a developmental year, do you really wanna burn that first year bump, and element of surprise, on a season you don't expect to compete?

Edited September 30, 2023 by Mr Anonymous

[minnypackerfan]

On defense I can think of three area's of concern that need to be addressed:

1. Coaching situational awareness. There were several examples in the Detroit game where Barry utilized the 2-4-5 front to counter the Lions as they brought in an extra receiver. Only problem with that was they did this inside our 3 yard line or on 3rd downs and less than 3 yards to go. The Lions wanted to run the ball and hoped Barry would counter them this way and be in the light front and he did. In that situation when you have less than 3 yards to go, it is probably better to keep an extra big in the game and stay in the 3-4-4. You have to play the run first in those situations.
2. Player Assignment. First, there are several examples on the tape that show our defensive players missing their assignment by playing the wrong gap opening up big holes in the running game. Second, if you are going to play a 2-4-5 defense, your inside linebackers have to be decisive and fire into the gap fast on running plays instead of hesitating and waiting and getting blocked at the second level. Inside linebackers being blocked at the second level is why it was so easy for the Lions to get 4-6 yards per carry on plays inside the tackle. The question is why is this happening so frequently or nearly every play being run inside the tackle box? Are they being taught to stay back on the second level or are they being told to be decisive and fire into the gap quickly to get even with the first level?  I don't know the answer to that, but if your going to run the 2-4-5, you have to have inside linebackers that can recognize the play and fire into that level.
3. Player Technique. There are examples in this game of players who did play assignment sure but still got defeated by the blocker by using really poor technique when they took on the blocker. Example...shoulders not staying square or players attacking the wrong shoulder. Missing tackles by not squaring up and breaking down properly especially by our safeties. This sounds rather fundamental and elementary, but there are tons of examples of this happening which is way too often if your going to be a good defense.

The good though is I did see the players playing with effort. The effort is not lacking. There plays were you can see individual physical talent and players making great plays (Gary for example). So you can see the physical talent on the field, but either the scheme, assignment or technique is lacking. 

 

[Mr Anonymous]

I'm not saying they're dead set on hiring Jim Leonhard come January BUUUT I am saying personally I think there's a reason he stayed close and took a analyst position as opposed to a on-field coaching job. Nothing more than gut and puzzle piecing to that one.

Edited September 30, 2023 by Mr Anonymous

[Mr. Fussnputz]

4 minutes ago, Mr Anonymous said:

Hasn't been explored much but there's also a staleness factor in all of this. Any scheme if run long enough is going to be picked apart and dissected over time. It's why you often see a new DC or new OC make a huge difference in their first year. It's new looks with new personnel that take opponents by surprise and require time to scheme back at. If you're in a developmental year, do you really wanna burn that first year bump, and element of surprise, on a season you don't expect to compete?

OTHO, wouldn't it be a good idea to bring in the new DC now so he can gain some familiarity with the players? He can continue to run the same scheme (would almost have to) but at least load the box on short yardage situations, and have his corners playing press man coverage (at least he can find out who can/can't do that). Using the rest of this year getting to know the players so he can make recommendations for player acquisition in the off season wouldn't be the worst move. [I say this not knowing what potential DCs are available right now.]

[NFLGURU]

17 hours ago, Striker said:

Joe Barry's defenses were 30th and 31st in DET and 21st and 25th in WAS but yes, changing the players will fix things.

 

Joe Barry was also the DC in Detroit when they went 0-16.

[turf toe]

1 hour ago, Mr Anonymous said:

You don't saddle a new DC with a developmental season. That's not only a good way to be one and done at a key coaching position, but it's also not a job that attracts the best candidates. Everyone thinks of these interviews as one way streets. The top DC's aren't just fielding questions from the team, they're asking the team what their plan is. 2024 is the year the Packers will finally have a cleaner cap. That factors in for both sides.

 

 

this defense isn't in rebuild mode, all it needs is a better director, better coaching, I agree now is not the time, the time was the end of last season, now everyone we probably would want is committed else where, however if we could coax someone the FO likes, then we should do so now, that way in what looks like a throw away season he can better eval our players and be ready to give input to Guty for this coming draft.

Barry is a one minded coach, and always has been, minus the ability to get after the QB, and his defenses will bleed points, his coverage schemes leave to many wide open spaces, and the secondary always seems slow to react, he'll have this defense ranking bottom 3rd in the league again.

[{Family Ghost}]

1 hour ago, Mr Anonymous said:

I'm not saying they're dead set on hiring Jim Leonhard come January BUUUT I am saying personally I think there's a reason he stayed close and took a analyst position as opposed to a on-field coaching job. Nothing more than gut and puzzle piecing to that one.

Yep, seems plausible.

[Isherwood]

2 hours ago, Mr Anonymous said:

I'm not saying they're dead set on hiring Jim Leonhard come January BUUUT I am saying personally I think there's a reason he stayed close and took a analyst position as opposed to a on-field coaching job. Nothing more than gut and puzzle piecing to that one.

I'll join this club