Joe Barry'd again

[incognito_man]

1 hour ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

He's been playing well. A decent part of that is certainly his role and usage, but he's been in the backfield pretty consistently. 

+++

Is that 4th in the NFL number, complete bull****? Obviously

But that doesn't change the fact he's been playing well against the pass.

Who is 4th?

[Rainmaker90]

1 hour ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

He's been playing well. A decent part of that is certainly his role and usage, but he's been in the backfield pretty consistently. 

+++

Is that 4th in the NFL number, complete bull****? Obviously

But that doesn't change the fact he's been playing well against the pass.

That’s good to hear. He’s a big part of our future defensively 

[vegas492]

19 hours ago, incognito_man said:

False. 

Our offense has been (ever so slightly) better than our defense so far this season. And both have been responsible for losing games.

lol

[vegas492]

17 hours ago, Rainmaker90 said:

I for one haven’t noticed him much except for The Bears game.

I have a feeling that "pressures" with PFF are getting to be about as subjective as offensive line scoring.

[incognito_man]

16 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

lol

I'll never understand the small mindedness required to laugh at empirical mathematical results.

[vegas492]

31 minutes ago, incognito_man said:

I'll never understand the small mindedness required to laugh at empirical mathematical results.

I'll never understand how smug someone can be on this board.  It's one of the great mysteries out there.

[incognito_man]

15 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

I'll never understand how smug someone can be on this board.  It's one of the great mysteries out there.

You mean how someone is smug enough to blame just one side of the ball for the entirety of our problems? That sort of ridiculous smugness?

[CWood21]

21 hours ago, MrBobGray said:

The Jets have more 3rd down attempts against than the Packers do. So they get to 3rd down down more often and allow a higher conversion %. The 49ers though do have less attempts against than the Packers. They're just worse at defending them.

Also of note: the Packers have allowed 160 1st downs this year on defense. The Jets have allowed 154. The 49ers are at 155.

Also also of note: the Packers have the 5th best yards per play allowed this season at 4.9. The Jets are 3rd best at 4.6. The 49ers are 12th at 5.1.

Final thought: how many dropped picks do you think the Packers are at this year? Is it on Barry that the Packers struggle to force turnovers if they consistently fail to make the play even when the ball hits them in the hands?

Is there somewhere that shows the average distance to go on 3rd down for each team?  Like Green Bay's defense is on average looking at 3rd and 7 to go, while NY Jets are 3rd and 2.5 yards to go?

Green Bay's defense isn't playing well by any means.  I don't think their horrific catastrophe they've been in past year, but with how much they've invested into the defense over the last few years there hasn't been significant improvement.

[Rainmaker90]

1 hour ago, vegas492 said:

I have a feeling that "pressures" with PFF are getting to be about as subjective as offensive line scoring.

That would make a lot of sense. I just haven’t noticed the guy much 

[Brit Pack]

1 hour ago, vegas492 said:

I have a feeling that "pressures" with PFF are getting to be about as subjective as offensive line scoring.

I seriously wonder whether PFF make it's real money by running a kind of mafia style operation where players have to pay to get a decent rating, and if they don't, they get a really crap rating. Like Devin White who was 2nd team All Pro in 2020 and had a PFF grade of 43.4 that year and has never got above 52 as a grading.

Or if a player who is coming up to be a free agent and if paid enough PFF make up a stat that is so hard to verify but sounds good so that the player gets more leverage when negotiating a contract e.g. Rashan Gary.

If I ran PFF that is what I would do

[squire12]

1 hour ago, CWood21 said:

Is there somewhere that shows the average distance to go on 3rd down for each team?  Like Green Bay's defense is on average looking at 3rd and 7 to go, while NY Jets are 3rd and 2.5 yards to go?

Green Bay's defense isn't playing well by any means.  I don't think their horrific catastrophe they've been in past year, but with how much they've invested into the defense over the last few years there hasn't been significant improvement.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/gnb/2023_opp_splits.htm

need to look at each team page for the info

Rushing					Passing
Down & Yards to Go	#Pl	ToGo	Yds	Att	Yds	Y/A	TD	1D	Cmp	Att	Cmp%	Yds	Y/A	TD	Int	Sk	1D	Rate	ANY/A
1st & 10	202	10.00	5.68	116	517	4.5	0	17	57	83	68.7	656	7.9	2	1	3	27	95.3	7.6	All Opponent plays with 1st & 10 yds to go
1st & >10	9	16.44	3.11	6	31	5.2	0	1	1	2	50	5	2.5	0	0	1	0	56.3	1.7	All Opponent plays with 1st & >10 yds to go
1st & <10	15	5.33	2.20	9	21	2.3	1	1	3	6	50	12	2.0	1	0	0	1	95.8	5.3	All Opponent plays with 1st & <10 yds to go
2nd & 1-3	34	2.06	2.74	28	67	2.4	3	17	4	6	66.7	26	4.3	0	0	0	4	75.7	4.3	All Opponent plays with 2nd & 1-3 yds to go
2nd & 4-6	34	4.94	4.21	16	58	3.6	1	4	10	16	62.5	102	6.4	1	0	2	7	101.6	6.8	All Opponent plays with 2nd & 4-6 yds to go
2nd & 7-9	38	8.03	3.05	15	42	2.8	0	2	12	23	52.2	74	3.2	1	0	0	3	73.5	4.1	All Opponent plays with 2nd & 7-9 yds to go
2nd & 10+	62	12.32	4.77	23	104	4.5	0	2	25	38	65.8	201	5.3	0	2	1	6	57.0	2.8	All Opponent plays with 2nd & 10+ yds to go
3rd & 1-3	35	2.06	5.11	16	45	2.8	0	9	13	17	76.5	139	8.2	1	0	2	11	119.5	8.4	All Opponent plays with 3rd & 1-3 yds to go
3rd & 4-6	22	5.18	5.05	4	17	4.3	0	1	9	14	64.3	119	8.5	2	0	4	9	130.7	8.8	All Opponent plays with 3rd & 4-6 yds to go
3rd & 7-9	33	8.03	5.88	5	30	6.0	0	1	15	23	65.2	195	8.5	0	0	5	9	91.8	7.0	All Opponent plays with 3rd & 7-9 yds to go
3rd & 10+	26	13.42	6.77	3	26	8.7	0	0	15	21	71.4	156	7.4	0	2	2	5	53.0	2.9	All Opponent plays with 3rd & 10+ yds to go
4th & 1-3	10	1.40	3.30	8	28	3.5	1	6	1	2	50	5	2.5	0	0	0	1	56.3	2.5	All Opponent plays with 4th & 1-3 yds to go
4th & 4-6	3	4.33	4.00	1	6	6.0	1	1	1	2	50	6	3.0	0	0	0	1	56.3	3.0	All Opponent plays with 4th & 4-6 yds to go
4th & 7-9	1	9.00	0.00						0	1	0	0	.0	0	0	0	0	39.6	.0	All Opponent plays with 4th & 7-9 yds to go
4th & 10+	0																			All Opponent plays with 4th & 10+ yds to go
3rd/4th & short	45	1.91	4.71	24	73	3.0	1	15	14	19	73.7	144	7.6	1	0	2	12	112.6

 

[vegas492]

2 hours ago, incognito_man said:

You mean how someone is smug enough to blame just one side of the ball for the entirety of our problems? That sort of ridiculous smugness?

Naw, just posters who talks about mathematics and football, yet don't show their work.  Then discredits other firms who are paid by collegiate teams and NFL teams to do as such.

[vegas492]

1 hour ago, Brit Pack said:

I seriously wonder whether PFF make it's real money by running a kind of mafia style operation where players have to pay to get a decent rating, and if they don't, they get a really crap rating. Like Devin White who was 2nd team All Pro in 2020 and had a PFF grade of 43.4 that year and has never got above 52 as a grading.

Or if a player who is coming up to be a free agent and if paid enough PFF make up a stat that is so hard to verify but sounds good so that the player gets more leverage when negotiating a contract e.g. Rashan Gary.

If I ran PFF that is what I would do

Doubtful.

But....what is interesting to me is Roquan Smith.  PFF never really liked him, yet he is killing it this year, score wise.

I haven't studied it, besides looking at the overall scores, and I won't.  But....it's almost like a better defensive scheme and better guys around the ILB makes them score better.

Who would have thunk that?

[vegas492]

1 hour ago, Rainmaker90 said:

That would make a lot of sense. I just haven’t noticed the guy much 

I've noticed him beating his guy and getting into the backfield.  He's not getting TFL's or tackles in general, but he's winning his match up, for sure.

I look at him kindda like Gary, only Gary is getting some nice sacks.  But winning your matchup must get "points" for the player, regardless of whether or not they end up in on the play.

In the case of Wyatt and Gary....I feel like each of them is still in on only limited snap counts, more against the pass, so they are likely to have fewer stats in pass rush stats.

Either way, I'm encouraged by Wyatt.

[incognito_man]

20 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

Naw, just posters who talks about mathematics and football, yet don't show their work.  Then discredits other firms who are paid by collegiate teams and NFL teams to do as such.

Not sure who you're talking about, but I'd agree anyone who does that wouldn't be worth listening to. 

That's why I prefer DVOA for team and unit comparisons because they show their work in easy to follow detail and is the best overall capture metric on the planet for what it does. 

Also assume you're referring to PFF? Which is a nice tool I enjoy as well. But involves subjectivity and doesn't show their work. But it's still a useful tool to a point and I've certainly never discredited it on the whole.

So I'm very confused why you replied to me

Edited November 8, 2023 by incognito_man